Michigan Armed Protesters

[Bumblebee]

Some Sheriffs are already saying they won't uphold some gun bans in states like Virginia and others. I would hope the police and military would be on the right side if anything happened.

The police and military are sworn to their government...if a Sherriff doesn't uphold the law, they should be replaced. A Sherriff can't be allowed to pick and choose what law they uphold IMO.

 

[08BusaKY]

The Canadian Government just announced the banning of "assault style weapons" the number is around 1500 different models. There is a 2 yr amnesty period for people to turn them in for a buy out-similar to what New Zealand did. As of today, we can't buy these sort of weapons.

When I lived in Ca. they banned them and any clip that held over 10 rounds. That law was later overturned.

 

[Bumblebee]

When I lived in Ca. they banned them and any clip that held over 10 rounds. That law was later overturned.

The NRA has lots of power in the US unlike here or the rest of the world.

 

[08BusaKY]

The police and military are sworn to their government...if a Sherriff doesn't uphold the law, they should be replaced. A Sherriff can't be allowed to pick and choose what law they uphold IMO.

I think they can if the law is unconstitutional. That was the reasoning the Sherriff's gave. The politicians swore to uphold the constitution but aren't.

 

[Mr Brown]

Some Sheriffs are already saying they won't uphold some gun bans in states like Virginia and others. I would hope the police and military would be on the right side if anything happened.

By the right side you mean on the side of rule of law, correct?

 

[Mr Brown]

The NRA has lots of power in the US unlike here or the rest of the world.

The NRA was responsible for the ban in the first place....

 

[08BusaKY]

By the right side you mean on the side of rule of law, correct?

Yes, constitutional law.

 

[captain]

Still no reason to go around looking like active terrorists...

Take a look at pictures of failed states and the people there look strikingly similar to these guys...

People's livelihoods are in jeopardy all around the world due to this virus lock down....other nations have a stronger lock down, New Zealand, Australia and a even Canada as nations have a far more robust policy on lock down perimeters. Nobody in other nations have gone to the extreme to take up arms in protest..

Reminds me of Somalia or Libya....

In my opinion, there is absolutely no need for any citizen to be armed and dressed like that. Militia groups were necessary when the US was trying to become a country and were being actively oppressed by an occupying force...such is no longer the case.

this picture reminds me of pictures taken in failed states.

Please don't get your opinion and feelings confused with a constitutional right. No one ever said there was a need... There isn't a need to wear shorts at the beach but its a constitutional right to choose the clothes we wear right. You could go and lay out in the sun in a 3 piece suit and would probably not be what you or I would choose to wear but that doesn't mean that its wrong. It is legal to carry in public buildings in Michigan!

 

[busabobh]

Well my point was that those very same guys looking all "constitutional rights" in Michigan were all for gun control when Blacks took up arms to protect their voting rights.

. I don’t think bringing race into this has any use. I’m all for gun rights, but stupid people as the ones shown cause us to loose more than we ever gain.

 

[Mr Brown]

I think they can if the law is unconstitutional. That was the reasoning the Sherriff's gave. The politicians swore to uphold the constitution but aren't.

It's not law enforcement's place to determine the Constitutionality of a specific law. It would be reasonable to refuse to enforce a law that is actively working through the appeal process, but once that's finished it's their sworn duty to uphold the law.

 

[08BusaKY]

It's not law enforcement's place to determine the Constitutionality of a specific law. It would be reasonable to refuse to enforce a law that is actively working through the appeal process, but once that's finished it's their sworn duty to uphold the law.

As far as I know there is no current bill to change the constitution. So therefore if a rogue politician try to make up their own laws that go against the constitution in it's current form law enforcement should resist. This is happening now with gun laws. It is also happening with the virus. There are people protesting in a lot of cities. I just heard they are in Chicago now.

 

[Mr Brown]

As far as I know there is no current bill to change the constitution. So therefore if a rogue politician try to make up their own laws that go against the constitution in it's current form law enforcement should resist. This is happening now with gun laws. It is also happening with the virus. There are people protesting in a lot of cities. I just heard they are in Chicago now.

Changes to the Constitution have happened 27 times, the first 10 were made just over 2 years after it was written. There is nothing in the Constitution about which rights supersede others, or when. That's what laws are for. The Constitution provides the framework for them, and establishes the process by which they can be changed.
There's a reason policing is called law enforcement not law interpretation.

 

[Mr Brown]

. I don’t think bringing race into this has any use. I’m all for gun rights, but stupid people as the ones shown cause us to loose more than we ever gain.

Unfortunately race is already involved. We live in a place and time where a black man in his car during a traffic stop is considered a significant enough threat to be killed because an officer thought he was reaching for a weapon, but these guys are not considered one?

 

[TallTom]

Unfortunately race is already involved. We live in a place and time where a black man in his car during a traffic stop is considered a significant enough threat to be killed because an officer thought he was reaching for a weapon, but these guys are not considered one?

So yes and no. I totally concur that things have gotten dicey for biasing by cops. But it's a stretch to say these are the same things. While I don't support the stance they take arming themselves, they are probably as peaceful as the members of this organized group. Any of these arrested?

 

[08BusaKY]

Changes to the Constitution have happened 27 times, the first 10 were made just over 2 years after it was written. There is nothing in the Constitution about which rights supersede others, or when. That's what laws are for. The Constitution provides the framework for them, and establishes the process by which they can be changed.
There's a reason policing is called law enforcement not law interpretation.

I am aware it has been changed. I meant in a future unrest the current version of it should be adhered to.

You said policing should not interpret the law but politicians and judges do it all the time.

Why do you think Dems and GOP wants to pick their own judges for the Supreme Court? Why do you think liberal judges like the 9th circuit and other knock down most things that Trump does. It is because they make decisions based off their bios instead of sticking to the constitution and laws. That is why Trump has to go to the supreme court all the time and the dems complain about it.

I do hate to see the number of cops that commit suicide and being ambushed these days.

Anyways it's Friday afternoon so it is time for wine down for me. No more replies today. Have a good Friday!

 

[Mr Brown]

I am aware it has been changed. I meant in a future unrest the current version of it should be adhered to.

You said policing should not interpret the law but politicians and judges do it all the time.

Why do you think Dems and GOP wants to pick their own judges for the Supreme Court? Why do you think liberal judges like the 9th circuit and other knock down most things that Trump does. It is because they make decisions based off their bios instead of sticking to the constitution and laws. That is why Trump has to go to the supreme court all the time and the dems complain about it.

I do hate to see the number of cops that commit suicide and being ambushed these days.

Anyways it's Friday afternoon so it is time for wine down for me. No more replies today. Have a good Friday!

Enjoy your Friday!
I'll leave you with this: politicians' and judges' jobs are to make and interpret the law. Cops' jobs are to enforce it.

 

[Mr Brown]

So yes and no. I totally concur that things have gotten dicey for biasing by cops. But it's a stretch to say these are the same things. While I don't support the stance they take arming themselves, they are probably as peaceful as the members of this organized group. Any of these arrested?
View attachment 1618103

I don't know if those guys got arrested. They look equally as stupid as the guys in Michigan.
I do know that there is a long and ugly history of racialized fear in this country which has resulted in the death of countless black men.
There is something intrinsically wrong with a system where an armed representative of the state can shoot a person in the back while they're running away, claim to have been in fear of their life, and have that be a successful legal defense. Or in the case which I mentioned earlier, a man who tells the officer that he has a weapon as he should, complies with directives again as he should, and is killed sitting in his car. Again, fear is the defense, and again it was successful. There are so many examples of this it's staggering. If the cop in Texas who went into the wrong apartment and killed a man standing in his own home had been less careless with who she told her plan to, she would arguably have been successful with her defense as well.
Turn that dynamic around, if the black guy shoots the white woman in her own home and claims fear, how's that gonna work out?
If the black guy shoots the white cop during the traffic stop and claims fear, how's that gonna work out?
So I'm clear, the problem isn't police, or even the justice system as a whole, they're just a readily accessible example of a society in which some lives are worth more than others. Race is simply one of the deciding factors in that assessment.

 

[Mathewrussell52]

Enjoy your Friday!
I'll leave you with this: politicians' and judges' jobs are to make and interpret the law. Cops' jobs are to enforce it.

Wouldn’t you consider a Sheriff a politician?

 

[rubbersidedown]

When I see things like this I automatically go back to the failed states I was sent to. The picture I see is not much different than many I have seen before in other countries-citizens acting as a paramilitary group.

Showing up dressed and armed like that is just saying "go ahead, start something" and probably hoping someone actually does.

Constitutional rights have to change with times. When that was written, there was an occupying force in the US and the government was unstable that is no longer true (some would argue that last point however but I digress). Owning a weapon and feeling it is needed at a "peaceful" protest is mind-boggling.

Armed militias of today are there to do what exactly?

Anybody? Click expand please.

 

[Mr Brown]

Wouldn’t you consider a Sheriff a politician?

Nah. Elected no doubt, but judges are elected as well and neither are politicians.