Not good news for the country this morning!

[Dino]

Well that took all of about 1 minute to figure out this is not what was on the site...

If you are going to inject your own views, you should note them as such... going to be re-writing history books next ?

"From the DNC site" "you are welcome to join the democratic party as long as you tow our party line, the "beat down" of opposing views is our primary goal"

Philadelphia Tea Party Patriots - About Us

BUSTED

I am not sure what is funnier, that fact that you actually checked because you thought that the teaparty movement had that as part of one of their core values or that you didn't understand that the bold and parenthsis were my inserted comments.

 

[Dino]

I certainly hope your history teacher is out of a job because they failed you miserably.....here's a little recap for you.

Abraham Lincoln - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Be sure to read the 2nd sentence and further down the part about Emancipation Proclamation.

Please do not tell me you are comparing the Republican Party of the 1860's to today's GOP.

 

[Dino]

I don't believe the Tea Party Movement has anything to do with race. I don't care if you are White, Black, Pink, Green or Yellow: Just that, if you are an American, your heart runs RED WHITE and BLUE.

Their movement is based on conservatism, as a counter to the super liberal wing of the Democratic Party (Code Pink, Jesse Jackson, Homosexual lobby), and because they feel that the Republican Party has moved too far to the center and lost it's way.

I am with Skydivr here, my post was not to imply that the Teaparty Movement is a racist movement. What I was implying with my comments in bold (that was for you Bogus) was that the Tea Party Movement envokes a preception that the economy of our founding fathers was a Free Market Economy. It was not and could not have been a free makrent when there were laws at prohibited whole sectors of the market from participating. These law gave an unfair advantage to some and a great advantage to others. This has been the case right up until today. The wealth through political influence have always supported laws to give them an ecnomic advantage. When this occurs you DO NOT have a Free Market.

What the Tea Party Sheeple don't get is that what they are doing is supporting the same wealthly interests that will enact laws to keep keep themselves at an advantage. They are unwitting participants in their own demise.

 

[Mr Brown]

I wasn't saying that I think the Tea partiers are racists, I was saying that the values they espouse are a sentiment echoed by the people belonging the group(s) whose creed is what I said...
Those who think that illegal immigration was okay when it wasn't brown skinned people coming here. Those that think women and minorities are inherrently less capable of being leaders or productive members of society. Those who claim to be Christian but spread hatred and intolerance.

 

[Mr Brown]

Not a misunderstanding....more of a you make no sense to 99% of the world kind of thing. If you're in slavery right now, be sure to send me your address/last known location and I'll alert the feds to get you out of that situation post-haste! I'm surprised you're able to communicate freely, wouldn't have happened in slavery 200 years ago, that's for sure!

Act grateful for your freedoms and don't use nonsense comments like you live slavery today. Why don't we all just say we live under Rome's ruthless tyranny? Makes about as much sense!

Perhaps I make no sense to 99% of the people in your world, that would not come as a surprise.
Read my comments carefully, before you respond, so that you may better understand them. Read what I write, not what you think I wrote.
Not once did I say I lived in slavery, I said I live with the effects of it. We all do. This country struggles with it on a daily basis.
As far as acting gratefully for my freedoms, I was unaware that I needed to thank you for allowing me to have basic human rights. I thought this was guaranteed by the constitution. Do you think I should be especially grateful for some reason?

 

[Mr Brown]

technically we all live it.....but i understand. the problem with the internet is that you never know who you are talking to, and sometimes make judgements about them...w/o any real information of who they are...

I agree completely, we all live it. There are some among us who like to deny the impact it has had, and continues to have, on our society. The economic impact was what I was referring to, nothing else. The social impact of it is a whole other discussion......

 

[UncleSteve]

STOP WATCHING THE NEWS, you will feel much better.

 

[Mr Brown]

STOP WATCHING THE NEWS, you will feel much better.

You mean the news isn't the absolute unadulterated truth? It's just a perspective skewed to benefit a certain group or way of thinking? Say it isn't so....

 

[raydog]

Wow, twelve pages, OK here's my take...
religion competes with greed for the most evil and destructive forces in our society
a scary amount of people are naive and vote in their own worst interests
the middle class and their stability are decomposing because of the actions of the top 3% (in terms of wealth)of our population
the identifiable loss of the middle class is the clear indicator of a country's loss of greatness
there is no such thing as "end times" unless natural forces collide
smart people learn to live with others they are in disagreement with
dumb people use violence as a substitute for dialog and education
"having all the answers" is an unobtainable goal
humility is a strength
lefty vrs righty in fighting is the great smokescreen created to occupy the masses...by the rich corporatocracy
sincerely, raydog

 

[skydivr]

I am with Skydivr here,

Hell just froze over, if Dino is starting to agree with me

 

[skydivr]

Wow, twelve pages, OK here's my take...
religion competes with greed for the most evil and destructive forces in our society
a scary amount of people are naive and vote in their own worst interests
the middle class and their stability are decomposing because of the actions of the top 3% (in terms of wealth)of our population
the identifiable loss of the middle class is the clear indicator of a country's loss of greatness
there is no such thing as "end times" unless natural forces collide
smart people learn to live with others they are in disagreement with
dumb people use violence as a substitute for dialog and education
"having all the answers" is an unobtainable goal
humility is a strength
lefty vrs righty in fighting is the great smokescreen created to occupy the masses...by the rich corporatocracy
sincerely, raydog

I agree with 90% of this, except to edit

the middle class and their stability are decomposing because of the actions of the top 3% (in terms of wealth)of our population

to

the middle class and their stability are decomposing because of the actions of the top 3% and bottom 20% (in terms of wealth)of our population...

 

[raydog]

I agree with 90% of this, except to edit

the middle class and their stability are decomposing because of the actions of the top 3% (in terms of wealth)of our population

to

the middle class and their stability are decomposing because of the actions of the top 3% and bottom 20% (in terms of wealth)of our population...

Well, to keep this part of the discussion at the collegiate level.....my experience as an educator leads me to respond as follows:
I test for cognative ability and IQ, have for quite a few years. To identify the bottom economic 20% of our population as the reason the middle class is decomposing is a gross oversimplification and cold hearted perspective that would deny that people with tramatic brain injury, learning and developmental disabilities and mental illness....are just faking it and should be cast adrift.

Let's face it, when we go for a trek into high country, a couple in our group may not be capable of keeping our pace....so should we just leave them behind or help them along?
I know all the sorry responses....what it boils down to is...are we compasionate enough or are they all low life freeloaders that coast along under others' efforts. Think what you want but my experience reveals that there are far more truly needy people than freeloaders....maybe that's what makes me a Progressive. No, I don't believe in fishing for someone else, I believe in teaching them how to fish.
I refuse to be a hater, but I don't refuse to have compasion, it's always been one of my strengths and I'm really proud of it. Doyle

 

[Dino]

Hell just froze over, if Dino is starting to agree with me

I have only done static line jumps but I love jumping out of flying things too.

 

[Zoinks!]

12 pages later I can finally do some typing instead of all reading. . . I'm by no means an economical guru. I'm also probably not as well educated on politics as some of the others who have posted in this thread. But here are some of my thoughts, anyway.

First of all, the current issues in this country have gone WAY past simple "left vs right". I can't stand it when people blame solely the left or blame the right for everything. It's NOT one sided. I also hate to hear people say "the problem with this country is _____" (fill in the blank). The fact is, there isn't one single simple problem that if fixed will put the country into a complete 180 and make everything ok. There are many different issues that have to be dealt with. Are freeloaders a problem? Most definitely. Is welfare a bad thing? Not necessarily; however, as stated many times before there are far too many people who abuse that system. And although there may be a way, I don't see how welfare can exist without having that issue. Raydog, I agree with you to a point, but I'm not sure I agree that there are far more people that truly need it than freeloaders.

Assuming that you're not somehow handicapped, if you're taking government handouts because you can't live on your current salary, then you need to get a better job. Period. If you can't get a better paying job because you lack the education to do so, then go to school, get educated, and get a better job. I'm doing it, and my cousin is doing the same thing. I wasn't going to be able to support a family, let alone myself, adequately in my previous job. So I started school in January to get myself a better job. My cousin is living paycheck to paycheck (not living outside his means. Just trying to survive). But rather than go crawling to the government for a handout, he's back in school too, to make things better for himself.

Take from the rich and give to the poor hasn't worked in the past, and it's not going to work now. There are plenty of other topics that have been discussed in this thread, but that's all I feel like commenting on right now.

 

[b4thenite]

Well, to keep this part of the discussion at the collegiate level.....my experience as an educator leads me to respond as follows:
I test for cognative ability and IQ, have for quite a few years. To identify the bottom economic 20% of our population as the reason the middle class is decomposing is a gross oversimplification and cold hearted perspective that would deny that people with tramatic brain injury, learning and developmental disabilities and mental illness....are just faking it and should be cast adrift.

Let's face it, when we go for a trek into high country, a couple in our group may not be capable of keeping our pace....so should we just leave them behind or help them along?
I know all the sorry responses....what it boils down to is...are we compasionate enough or are they all low life freeloaders that coast along under others' efforts. Think what you want but my experience reveals that there are far more truly needy people than freeloaders....maybe that's what makes me a Progressive. No, I don't believe in fishing for someone else, I believe in teaching them how to fish.
I refuse to be a hater, but I don't refuse to have compasion, it's always been one of my strengths and I'm really proud of it. Doyle

Well said.

 

[skydivr]

Well, to keep this part of the discussion at the collegiate level.....my experience as an educator leads me to respond as follows:
I test for cognative ability and IQ, have for quite a few years. To identify the bottom economic 20% of our population as the reason the middle class is decomposing is a gross oversimplification and cold hearted perspective that would deny that people with tramatic brain injury, learning and developmental disabilities and mental illness....are just faking it and should be cast adrift.

Let's face it, when we go for a trek into high country, a couple in our group may not be capable of keeping our pace....so should we just leave them behind or help them along?
I know all the sorry responses....what it boils down to is...are we compasionate enough or are they all low life freeloaders that coast along under others' efforts. Think what you want but my experience reveals that there are far more truly needy people than freeloaders....maybe that's what makes me a Progressive. No, I don't believe in fishing for someone else, I believe in teaching them how to fish.
I refuse to be a hater, but I don't refuse to have compasion, it's always been one of my strengths and I'm really proud of it. Doyle

Doyle, I'm not trying to be uncompassionate to people that need help, that are trying to help themselves. But the fact is that the sheer weight of some of these entitlement programs is going to overwhelm those that can and are paying taxes to the point they they won't come to play anymore. We are going to have to find a middle ground. Yes, the government needs to try and provide opportunities, NOT a handout. The handout only creates a longer line waiting for more handouts; humans as a whole will frequently take the path of least resistance. I'm willing for my tax dollars IN REASON to help pay to provide OPPORTUNTIY, but I continue to see so much fraud/waste/abuse that it gets tiring. How about drug testing for an 'assistance' check? Seems fair enough to me....

In your experience, what percentage of those people you find who are are mentally or emotionally challenged are the result of their parents either doing drugs or something else stupid in these children's youth? I feel very sorry for the child, but I'd like to kick that parent in the teeth. Not sure how we stop the cycle that we have created; we are 'being hoisted by our own petard".

Let's use your own 'high country' analogy. Should we leave those behind that can't keep up? No, we slow down a little and give them a chance to catch up. But we DON'T carry them up the mountain on OUR backs, either; otherwise from then on, they'll expect you to carry them the next time, and next time and next time....the difference may seem subtle, but the ramifications are huge.

 

[b4thenite]

Doyle, I'm not trying to be uncompassionate to people that need help, that are trying to help themselves. But the fact is that the sheer weight of some of these entitlement programs is going to overwhelm those that can and are paying taxes to the point they they won't come to play anymore. We are going to have to find a middle ground. Yes, the government needs to try and provide opportunities, NOT a handout. The handout only creates a longer line waiting for more handouts; humans as a whole will frequently take the path of least resistance. I'm willing for my tax dollars IN REASON to help pay to provide OPPORTUNTIY, but I continue to see so much fraud/waste/abuse that it gets tiring. How about drug testing for an 'assistance' check? Seems fair enough to me....

In your experience, what percentage of those people you find who are are mentally or emotionally challenged are the result of their parents either doing drugs or something else stupid in these children's youth? I feel very sorry for the child, but I'd like to kick that parent in the teeth. Not sure how we stop the cycle that we have created; we are 'being hoisted by our own petard".

Generations of poverty and despair will produce more poverty and more despair. That's why we have to invest more in education and health for the needed.

 

[skydivr]

Only if we don't cut our own foot off to spite ourselves...

 

[afterhours]

Doyle, I'm not trying to be uncompassionate to people that need help, that are trying to help themselves. But the fact is that the sheer weight of some of these entitlement programs is going to overwhelm those that can and are paying taxes to the point they they won't come to play anymore. We are going to have to find a middle ground. Yes, the government needs to try and provide opportunities, NOT a handout. The handout only creates a longer line waiting for more handouts; humans as a whole will frequently take the path of least resistance. I'm willing for my tax dollars IN REASON to help pay to provide OPPORTUNTIY, but I continue to see so much fraud/waste/abuse that it gets tiring. How about drug testing for an 'assistance' check? Seems fair enough to me....

In your experience, what percentage of those people you find who are are mentally or emotionally challenged are the result of their parents either doing drugs or something else stupid in these children's youth? I feel very sorry for the child, but I'd like to kick that parent in the teeth. Not sure how we stop the cycle that we have created; we are 'being hoisted by our own petard".

Let's use your own 'high country' analogy. Should we leave those behind that can't keep up? No, we slow down a little and give them a chance to catch up. But we DON'T carry them up the mountain on OUR backs, either; otherwise from then on, they'll expect you to carry them the next time, and next time and next time....the difference may seem subtle, but the ramifications are huge.

to further the analogy:

here is the problem......

we have carried them up the mountain,and back down.

again and again and again....

we have carried them so many times up that mountain that they are now bringing thier kids, and thier grand kids.....

maybe we should just not invite them anymore?



i have no problem with helping those that are working to better themselves. why do we have to support those not trying to make thier lives better...

DON"T JUST GIVE THEM FISH....TEACH THEM TO FISH FOR THEMSELVES

 

[Dino]

I certainly hope your history teacher is out of a job because they failed you miserably.....here's a little recap for you.

Abraham Lincoln - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Be sure to read the 2nd sentence and further down the part about Emancipation Proclamation.

American Civil War was the war between two antagonizing economical power, like every other war. There were no humane, nor no noble principles. Every war since a man could throw a sone, was struggle between economical interests.

Lincoln didn't free slaves because he was a good man. He did it because it was politically advantageous. Nothern powers ( yankees ) wanted to end unfair labor practice of the South.

One man kills another man for loaf of bread. We call him savage. One man kills thousands of man for thousands of bread, we call him a hero.

Unless you face the fact that we are savages, we will never progress.

I think you're selling Mr. Lincoln short..........

President Lincoln was a great president but he did have a darker side....