NYT Article: The Vanishing Male worker

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
Donating Member
So, rather than stir up another rats' nest, I thought I would share this. The comments are also interesting..

The Vanishing Male Worker: How America Fell Behind

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The Vanishing Male Worker - NYT 11/12/2014

ANNAPOLIS, Md. — Frank Walsh still pays dues to the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, but more than four years have passed since his name was called at the union hall where the few available jobs are distributed. Mr. Walsh, his wife and two children live on her part-time income and a small inheritance from his mother, which is running out.

Sitting in the food court at a mall near his Maryland home, he sees that some of the restaurants are hiring. He says he can’t wait much longer to find a job. But he’s not ready yet.

“I’d work for them, but they’re only willing to pay $10 an hour,â€￾ he said, pointing at a Chick-fil-A that probably pays most of its workers less than that. “I’m 49 with two kids — $10 just isn’t going to cut it.â€￾

Working, in America, is in decline. The share of prime-age men — those 25 to 54 years old — who are not working has more than tripled since the late 1960s, to 16 percent. More recently, since the turn of the century, the share of women without paying jobs has been rising, too. The United States, which had one of the highest employment rates among developed nations as recently as 2000, has fallen toward the bottom of the list.

As the economy slowly recovers from the Great Recession, many of those men and women are eager to find work and willing to make large sacrifices to do so. Many others, however, are choosing not to work, according to a New York Times/CBS News/Kaiser Family Foundation poll that provides a detailed look at the lives of the 30 million Americans 25 to 54 who are without jobs.

Many men, in particular, have decided that low-wage work will not improve their lives, in part because deep changes in American society have made it easier for them to live without working. These changes include the availability of federal disability benefits; the decline of marriage, which means fewer men provide for children; and the rise of the Internet, which has reduced the isolation of unemployment.

At the same time, it has become harder for men to find higher-paying jobs. Foreign competition and technological advances have eliminated many of the jobs in which high school graduates like Mr. Walsh once could earn $40 an hour, or more. The poll found that 85 percent of prime-age men without jobs do not have bachelor’s degrees. And 34 percent said they had criminal records, making it hard to find any work.

The resulting absence of millions of potential workers has serious consequences not just for the men and their families but for the nation as a whole. A smaller work force is likely to lead to a slower-growing economy, and will leave a smaller share of the population to cover the cost of government, even as a larger share seeks help.

“They’re not working, because it’s not paying them enough to work,â€￾ said Alan B. Krueger, a leading labor economist and a professor at Princeton. “And that means the economy is going to be smaller than it otherwise would be.â€￾

High Costs

The trend was pushed to new heights by the last recession, with 20 percent of prime-age men not working in 2009 before partly receding. But the recovery is unlikely to be complete. Like turtles flipped onto their backs, many people who stop working struggle to get back on their feet. Some people take years to return to the work force, and others never do. And a growing body of research finds that their children, in turn, are less likely to prosper.

“The long-run effects of this are very high,â€￾ said Lawrence F. Katz, a professor of economics at Harvard. “We could be losing the next generation of kids.â€￾

For most unemployed men, life without work is not easy. In follow-up interviews, about two dozen men described days spent mostly at home, chewing through dwindling resources, relying on friends, strangers and the federal government. The poll found that 30 percent had used food stamps, while 33 percent said they had taken food from a nonprofit or religious group.

They are unhappy to be out of work and eager to find new jobs. They are struggling both with the loss of income and a loss of dignity. Their mental and physical health is suffering.

Yet 44 percent of men in the survey said there were jobs in their area they could get but were not willing to take.

José Flores, 45, who lives in St. Paul, said that after losing a job as a translator for the University of Minnesota’s public health department in 2011, he struck a deal with his landlord to pay $200 a month instead of $580, in exchange for doing odd jobs. He has a cellphone that costs $34 a month and an old car he tries not to drive, and “if I really need clothes or shoes, I go to the thrift store.â€￾ He picks up occasional work translating at hospitals, but he has not looked for a regular job since August.

“If for some reason I cannot live in the apartment where I live anymore, then that will be basically a wake-up call for me to wake up and say for sure I need a full-time job,â€￾ Mr. Flores said. He added, “If I start working full time the rent will increaseâ€￾ — because he would no longer be available for odd jobs.

A Changing Society

Men today may feel less pressure to find jobs because they are less likely than previous generations to be providing for others. Only 28 percent of men without jobs — compared with 58 percent of women — said a child under 18 lived with them.

A study published in October by scholars at the American Enterprise Institute and the Institute for Family Studies estimated that 37 percent of the decline in male employment since 1979 could be explained by this retreat from marriage and fatherhood.

“When the legal, entry-level economy isn’t providing a wage that allows someone a convincing and realistic option to become an adult — to go out and get married and form a household — it demoralizes them and shunts them into illegal economies,â€￾ said Philippe Bourgois, an anthropologist at the University of Pennsylvania who has studied the lives of young men in urban areas. “It’s not a choice that has made them happy. They would much rather be adults in a respectful job that pays them and promises them benefits.â€￾

There is also evidence that working has become more expensive. A recent analysis by the Brookings Institution found that prices since 1990 had climbed most quickly for labor-intensive services like child care, health care and education, increasing what might be described as the cost of working: getting a degree, staying healthy, hiring someone to watch the children. Meanwhile, the price of food, clothing, computers and other goods has climbed more slowly.

And technology has made unemployment less lonely. Tyler Cowen, an economist at George Mason University, argues that the Internet allows men to entertain themselves and find friends and sexual partners at a much lower cost than did previous generations.

Mr. Katz, the Harvard economist, said, however, that some men might choose to describe themselves as unwilling to take low-wage jobs when in fact they cannot find any jobs. There are about 10 million prime-age men who are not working, but there are only 4.8 million job openings for men and women of all ages, according to the most recent federal data.

Millions of men are trying to find work. And among the 45 percent of men who said they had looked in the last year, large majorities said that to get a job they would be willing to work nights and weekends, start over in a new field, return to school or move to a new city.

Adewole Badmus, 29, moved to Houston in August to look for work in the oil industry and, in the evenings, to study for a master’s degree in subsea engineering at the University of Houston. He left his wife in Indianapolis, where she works as a FedEx security officer, until he finds work.

“I hope it will not take much longer,â€￾ he said. “I cannot move forward. I cannot move backward. So I just have to keep pushing.â€￾

As an improving economy drives up hiring and wages, some of those on the sidelines also are likely to return to the labor market. Almost half of those who did not seek work in the last year said they wanted to work.

Yet many who have lost jobs will find it difficult to return.

David Muszynski, 51, crushed two nerves in his right leg in 2003 while breaking up a fight at a Black Sabbath concert outside Buffalo, ending his career as a concert technician. He worked eight more years as the manager of a sports bar in Tonawanda, N.Y., until that also became too much of a physical strain. In November, he went on federal disability benefits, replacing 60 percent of his income. Mr. Muszynski lives in a duplex he inherited from his mother, renting out the other unit.

He said he planned to take a night course to learn how to use a computer in the hope of finding a job that will place fewer demands on his body.

“I would rather be working,â€￾ he said. “Then I wouldn’t be so bored.â€￾

But few people who qualify for disability return to the work force. Even if they can find work, they are afraid of losing their benefits and then losing their new job.

The decline of work is divisible into three related trends.

Young men are spending more years in school, delaying their entry into the work force but potentially improving their eventual economic prospects.

Michael Cervone, 25, took shelter in school during the bleakest years of the post-recession recovery. He signed up for a triple major at Youngstown State University in Ohio, in early-childhood education, special education and psychology, “just to better my chances of getting a job because I knew how competitive it was.â€￾

But with the job market improving, Mr. Cervone decided to hurry up and graduate this weekend with a degree in early-childhood education.

“It feels like there’s a lot more jobs opening up, at least in my field,â€￾ he said. “I felt like it was the right time for me to start on the path that I chose.â€￾

At the other end of the 25-to-54 spectrum, many older men who lost jobs have fallen back on disability benefits or started to draw on retirement savings. For some of those men who worked in manufacturing or construction, and now can find only service work, the obstacle is not just the difference in pay; it is also the humiliation of being on public display.

William Scott Jordan, 54, retired from the Army National Guard last December after a decade of full-time duty. He gets a partial disability benefit of $230 a month and a pension when he turns 60. He would like a job until then, but he doesn’t feel able to return to construction work.

Mr. Jordan, who lives in Sumter, S.C., checks for new job listings every day and has filled out “15 to 20â€￾ applications over the last year — at places as varied as paint stores and private detective agencies — but has been invited to only a single interview. He helps take care of his grandchildren. He cleans the house. He tried taking classes.

Mr. Jordan and his wife, who works with the families of deployed soldiers, are now living on $25,000 a year rather than $75,000, and he figures they can get by for another year before they start drawing on savings, “or I guess I go find me a job washing dishes.â€￾

After a moment, Mr. Jordan adds, “I haven’t gotten that low yet.â€￾

Trading Down

In the third group are men like Mr. Walsh, too young to retire but often ill-equipped to find new work. Like many sharing his plight, Mr. Walsh did not move directly from employment to the sidelines. He lost a job, and then another, and one more.

After waiting two years for work as an electrician, Mr. Walsh took a job in April 2012 at a Home Depot. He was fired a few months later, he said, after he failed to greet a “secret shopperâ€￾ paid by the company to evaluate employees.

He drew unemployment benefits for another year before finding a warehouse job loading groceries for the Peapod delivery service. This time he was fired on Dec. 13 — like many who have lost jobs, he remembers the date immediately and precisely — after he asked for a vacation day, he said, to care for his dying mother.

Along the way, Mr. Walsh said he had drained the $15,000 in his union retirement account and run up about $20,000 in credit card debt. “We were constantly fighting because it’s fear,â€￾ he said of the toll on his marriage. “You don’t have the $50 you need for the lights and you don’t have the $300 you need for something else, and it gets kind of personal.â€￾

He keeps paying union dues to preserve his shot at a pension, but that also means he can’t get nonunion work as an electrician. He says he would like a desk job instead. He used email for the first time last month, and he plans to return to community college in the spring to learn computer skills.

He says he is determined that his own children will attend college so their prospects will be better than his own.

“I lost my sense of worth, you know what I mean?â€￾ Mr. Walsh said. “Somebody asks you ‘What do you do?’ and I would say, ‘I’m an electrician.’â€￾

“But now I say nothing. I’m not an electrician anymore.â€￾
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Make's for lively debate. I think the issue comes down to - "whose responsibility is it for people to improve their personal situation in life? Theirs, or the Government's"?

While the government CAN create circumstances that help people to make that step, it is still ONLY THEM that can lift their own foot....
 
Amen to that, skydivr.

It is part of human nature to continue along the easiest and familiar path. The more dynamic, challenging, and unpredictable societal changes become, the more there is a need to adapt to the new circumstances - not easy. A person needs to think long and hard, develop a realistic plan of action on how to get back on their feet, possibly change profession, and get additional education/training. Not easy.
 
OK good topic. I had no idea that I'd be seeking work at this stage in my life. Have skills, and a degree, figured it would be easy. But it wasn't. So at 49 I went back to school. Finished my 2 years of Pre-Med and am now needing to go to specific schools to finish my chosen area of studies. But wait, now I'm being told I'm too old for a career change, I would be a newcomer out of school at 54. They'd rather have the kids at 30 so they can get 20 years out of them.

So I look for jobs. Airbus here is building a HUGE facility. Man I should get this with my eyes closed. So here are examples of a jobs they want filled. Not any I applied for but examples.

Example 1:Technical writer. Entry level, will train for 9 months in Europe. Must have a masters degree in English. Let's stop right there. I have seen, written , used and edited probably 1500 technical manuals in my life. The LAST thing you need is a degree in English. What you need is the ability to write a technical script of steps, circumstances, procedures, down to the 3rd grade level. To do that requires technical knowledge of the item you are drafting the manual for, and the environment in which it will be used in. Nothing in an English degree will get you miles near this. Basic English and effective writing are adequate. Technical knowledge is more important. Train me for 6-9 months on what item(s) you want me to write a manual on. BTW tech writers is about as low on the technical totem pole as it gets.

Example 2: Tool crib manager. Must have a minimum of a masters degree in Logistics management, aerospace technologies or be a certified Precision measurement specialist with 12+ years experience. It's a tool crib! We aren't asking them to build the airplane we are asking them to care for and inventory control and repair as needed general tools used by the guys that have all the skills to use them. Oh and pay is 37K a year. Anyone of those degrees gets me an 80K salary in most places.

Example 3: Aircraft Squawk list manager. Duties will be to organize and interface with all departments the active deviations from nominal conditions and to keep the list current and support documentation recorded when squawk is cleared and reviewed by customer. Squawk conditions will be determined by all technical parties during aircraft production inspections.

So we have basically a skilled admin position.

Minimum requirements. Preferred masters degree in Aviation technologies, or 10+ years of passenger jet flight and ground testing certifications A&P IAs etc. Certified pilots given special consideration (I hope the hell so!!!) Training to be done for 6-9 months in Germany.

Any one of those degrees and certifications gives me a hands on technical position in about 400 different areas of production efforts. Approaching a 6 figure job with these. The last thing I'd want to with this degree is an admin paper push position. I can take a kid off the streets and train him in 6-9 months to do this job.

What has happened is, an Assoc. degree is worthless, a Bachelor's degree is barely entry level, a Masters degree is the new minimum and a Doctor's degree is the new fast track to any position past that. We have degreed ourselves into stupidity here. It does not require a degree to install components into an airframe. Training and skill is what is needed. Experience is helpful. The Airbus will be engineered in its entirety in Europe. The components will be assembled into an airplane here. We aren't figuring out how it works, we are simply assembling it.

My degree is in business management. My technical skills came as a self preservation in the industries. My new college goal was Artificial limbs (called Orthotics and Prosthetics). Pre-Med was hard and they say O&P makes Pre-Med look like a calk walk. I am carrying a 3.82 GPA. We aren't talking liberal arts here.

I have overseen the production of about 3,000 different parts to 500 aircraft. And oversaw repairs and modifications to them after the build. Including the space shuttle. The most paperwork laden task aircraft ever created. Suddenly I feel worthless.

Heck I actually have a better shot at an hourly position. Which I'd take. Punch the clock, go home and be done. O/T pays well and the job is repetitive. But I can't get a call back on one of those either.

They complain on TV they can't find enough qualified applicants. Can't imagine why.

My g/f just hired for an admin position for her staff. Hired a school teacher. Masters degree in Education. The job she interviews for pays $13/hr. My g/f was embarrassed to make this ridiculous offer but she was the best candidate interviewed. So she made the offer and the girl leapt through the phone with delight at the offer. $13/hr is more than she made as a teacher!!!! America we are growing more stupid as we go here.
 
Tom, I feel this is what happens when the government thinks everyone should have a college degree...that lessens the value of the degree, and what you have is exactly what you see above. I've seen plent of educated idiots, when experience should be the higher standard. If I were you, I'd still apply, because there may not be anyone out there that meets the requirements they've specified, and eventually someone is going to get smart about it. A college degree isn't worth much, because the system has now churned out more than the workforce actually needs.
 
Tom, I feel this is what happens when the government thinks everyone should have a college degree...that lessens the value of the degree, and what you have is exactly what you see above. I've seen plent of educated idiots, when experience should be the higher standard. If I were you, I'd still apply, because there may not be anyone out there that meets the requirements they've specified, and eventually someone is going to get smart about it. A college degree isn't worth much, because the system has now churned out more than the workforce actually needs.

Oh I have applied just not for these above positions. I literally get a rejection response within about 3 minutes stating I don't meet minimum requirements. I finally met a guy that got an there. I asked him ,man how did you get that gig? Well I saw the job description and took the words off the job description and made my resume up to include all those same words. I said. Cool so when did you do these things? Never. I just made my resume match the words and I was hired. He has never seen the guts of an airplane and he is an inspection manager for flight hardware. Trained from A toZ what they need him to know in Germany and France at their facilities. So bottom line is...he winged it.

So now I have to make a resume for each position that has the right keywords. At some point I still feel like the truth will and should be relevant. I still think you are actually supposed to have some related skill set background. Sure enough, they posted a slot, I cranked out a matching keyword resume and got an actual human being that sent me an e-mail saying they'd like to talk to me more about my qualifications. It's a simple position I can do with my eyes closed. But they want you to have an A&P license so I said I had it. I don't. And the position doesn't need it. So we will see. An A&P license is not something you can fake having. You either produce the license or you don't. I will never touch an airframe or a powerplant in this position I just applied for.
 
A bachelor's degree now a days is the equivalent of a high school diploma. It's pretty much the standard and we all know the "standard" won't wow or impress on a resume. Especially when there's 50 other people with the exact same credentials....hence the standard.

Funny how these guys will turn their nose up @ blue collar work or minimum wage pay yet they'll be the same ones complaining about "illegals" taking all the jobs in this country ??? Money & jobs are out there, may not be what you want 2 do or pay you what you feel your worth but it's $$$ none the less :whistle:
 
Money & jobs are out there, may not be what you want 2 do or pay you what you feel your worth but it's $$$ none the less :whistle:

I drove a monster dozer for 2 years while I was going to school. That was actually a pretty fun job. The hours were kind of a grind, but it paid very well. Could I do it for a living? Yes. Do I want to? No. But most of those guys know how to do nothing else. But they can peel an apple with a blade that can push 100 yards up a 40* grade. They have my total respect for their skills, but its a hard way to live.
 
I drove a monster dozer for 2 years while I was going to school. That was actually a pretty fun job. The hours were kind of a grind, but it paid very well. Could I do it for a living? Yes. Do I want to? No. But most of those guys know how to do nothing else. But they can peel an apple with a blade that can push 100 yards up a 40* grade. They have my total respect for their skills, but its a hard way to live.

Didn't require a college diploma, either....
 
I was at the quick-change oil place the other day. There was a 'help-wanted' sign out front. I asked the manager if he could find help. His response was "nobody wants to work. I had two applicants who were supposed to show today, and both no-showed" It wasn't minimum wage, and it was an honest job. plenty of people out there without a degree could do it rather than collect unemployment.

I also had a customer who hired a guy to start on 1/1/14. When he didn't show up, she called and asked what happened to him...his response: "My unemployment benefits were extended". Now, THAT'S A PROBLEM. To top it off, that opportunity could have gone to someone else who WOULD have showed up, but it didn't...
 
So, since I'm complaining about it, I am going to offer a fix, as complaining without offering a fix is just whining...

The Fed has been slowly tapering off bond buying, in the hopes of finding an equilibrium in the market where the private sector will take over - quantitative easing...

If it works there, why can it not work elsewhere? Nobody wants to immediately cease welfare bennies, unemployment and/or food stamps, as it would be too harsh, but why not quantitatively ease (taper) them? I think after a period of full unemployment (I'll be gracious and give it a year in this climate), that benefit should start to be tapered (how about 10% a month?), until a base of 10% (or even 20%, but something way less than full) or so is reached. 10% unemployment isn't enough to let people sit around and not get a job, but it will might keep people from starving (no more cable tv or cell phone or addidas, but a meal).

Statistically, it would be easy to track. There will be a point of diminishing return, were people who are currently sitting on the sideline not even making an effort for a job, and those who are turning their noses at available work, will START WORKING as it then becomes the better of the two alternatives. When that point is reached, we will then KNOW what that point is. And that's where the bennies need to be - just UNDER the point were most will start working and stop sitting around because the benefit is 'better than working'.

Comeon Arch, you are the accountant...what's the flaw in this logic? I even sent this idea to my Congresswoman, and she even mentioned it once or twice in public...but it wasn't gonna go anywhere with a divided Congress. In January I'm going to write all of them again...
 
First, thank God I've been employed ever day since the day I graduated college (Thank you US Army).

I suspect (and some can probably pipe in here) that the steps for finding employment again are:

1. Immediately looking for a equal or better job. Not finding that..
2. While continuing to look and living off savings, either getting additional education/certifications, and part time work. Not finding that.
3. Running out of savings/and or help, maybe starting to take Govt Assistance
4. As that runs out, taking whatever work is available, even if it's underneath your abilities. You are again employed. While employed, keep looking for something better, getting more skills or education or certification to start climbing the ladder once again.

The system currently is rigged and set up so that many NEVER GET TO STAGE 4, so they sit in stage 3 in near poverty, totally at the governments will. And they are stuck there.

I am VERY lucky I've always had a job. I work very hard to ensure that continues, but it could go the other way at the snap of a finger, and I have planned and saved accordingly. Should that unfortunate happen, that's probably the stages I'd go thru (and taking assistance from anyone or the govt would chafe me greatly). But I know, even as I had to DRAMATICALLY change my lifestyle or position in society, I COULD/WOULD FIND A JOB, even if it's 'underneath me' to take care of my family.
 
Didn't require a college diploma, either....

Nope. I was the only college degreed guy there driving a bulldozer. But they were all smarter than me when it came to driving a dozer.

However I didn't show up late, drunk, hung over, or not at all. I was never late and I always worked. I was the only one that had this work ethic there.
 
Should that unfortunate happen, that's probably the stages I'd go thru (and taking assistance from anyone or the govt would chafe me greatly). But I know, even as I had to DRAMATICALLY change my lifestyle or position in society, I COULD/WOULD FIND A JOB, even if it's 'underneath me' to take care of my family.

I thought the same thing. Then it happens and you find that in reality, this plan of savings and living within your means helps get you through the tough times, but it is still a sucky part of your life. I own everything I have, and I have no kids. That helps a great deal. What used to take a month to solve, now takes longer than you ever dreamed of. I remember hearing about people that were out of work for years. I thought, they are just being the problem. I have met others that have been out looking for years now. None of these people are bums.
 
I thought the same thing. Then it happens and you find that in reality, this plan of savings and living within your means helps get you through the tough times, but it is still a sucky part of your life. I own everything I have, and I have no kids. That helps a great deal. What used to take a month to solve, now takes longer than you ever dreamed of. I remember hearing about people that were out of work for years. I thought, they are just being the problem. I have met others that have been out looking for years now. None of these people are bums.

I wrote my post with thinking you'd see it and respond Tom. Just like I've never been a police officer, so any comment I'd make on decisions they make is nothing more than conjecture and opinion. I know you are out there trying and have been in this situation; heck, even Captain went thru something like this for over a year.

Are these people looking for jobs that they feel are in their skill set, and refusing jobs they may think are beneath them?
 
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