Opinions on Ferguson MO

[fallenarch]

Ok, what do you "blue curtain" guys have to say about the NY situation? Arrest is on video, guy is not aggressive, band choke hold used by cops, no attempt to revive the suspect, no violent history - just selling illegal smokes, cops walk. Like I said, no penalty for killing an n-word. Its crazy because if I were to run into one of these storm troopers on a ride in the middle of nowhere and I got off the bike he could fill me with lead because I'm big, black and "threatening" :ghostface:

 

[jellyrug]

Ok, what do you "blue curtain" guys have to say about the NY situation? Arrest is on video, guy is not aggressive, band choke hold used by cops, no attempt to revive the suspect, no violent history - just selling illegal smokes, cops walk. Like I said, no penalty for killing an n-word. Its crazy because if I were to run into one of these storm troopers on a ride in the middle of nowhere and I got off the bike he could fill me with lead because I'm big, black and "threatening" :ghostface:

From reading all your posts, I think you are smart enough to know what to do if a trooper approaches you and you will be just fine.

 

[fallenarch]

I will admit that with 2 exceptions (1 while I was in high school and 1 while i ws in college) I have never had a run in with an unprofessional cop. So most of them are good people just trying to do a tough job. But they can't protect the bad apples because that casts a negative light on all cops and makes their job much harder. When it's on video and its obvious they are wrong something has to be done to both show the public that the rules apply to everyone and so cops know that their job is to resolve all matters peacefully.

 

[jellyrug]

I will admit that with 2 exceptions (1 while I was in high school and 1 while i ws in college) I have never had a run in with an unprofessional cop. So most of them are good people just trying to do a tough job. But they can't protect the bad apples because that casts a negative light on all cops and makes their job much harder. When it's on video and its obvious they are wrong something has to be done to both show the public that the rules apply to everyone and so cops know that their job is to resolve all matters peacefully.

The worst that ever happened to me is getting stopped for speeding in OK, with CA licence plates. He came to my open window and said "Do you speak English!!" With my British accent I replied: "I speak perfect English, you don't by the way, you speak American." That was probably not the smartest thing to do, he promptly ordered me out the car, grabbed me by the arm, walked me to his car, put me in the passenger seat and wrote the ticket.

Arch, while I agree with you that excessive force was used in these two instances, while other methods such as Tasers, or negotiating a bit more in the NY incident could have been better, this is a complex scenario. I really believe it is highly unlikely that anyone who complies with a LEO's requests will be forcefully handled to the point where there is injury. Be arrogant, resist arrest and things can go South rapidly. The challenge is that we have three things to achieve here. The first is giving the Police force the confidence that they have the authority to maintain law, order and peace among the community while operating under the magnifying glass. The second is to maintain order among troubled communities. The third is to gain trust and RESPECT for the authorities operating in troubled communities.

I believe there is strong support for both sides, the police victims and the police themselves. I believe Wilson has resigned with no severance, but charity funds have already collected over $1 million for him, showing how strong the support is out there.

If we take the side of Brown, it will definitely affect the confidence of the Police force in how to do their extremely difficult job safely.

If we take the side of Wilson, we have an upset community, looting riots.

I don't have the right to judge, but my bias tends to steer away from folks who burn, riot and steal, or sell stuff illegally on the sidewalk and then resist requests from the authorities. The reason for this is that I was raised to respect older people and people with authority, whether this was my parents, my school/college teachers, or the police. I was taught as a child to respect them and obey them, irrespective of whether it made me happy or sad.

 

[Lycan6]

Ok, what do you "blue curtain" guys have to say about the NY situation? Arrest is on video, guy is not aggressive, band choke hold used by cops, no attempt to revive the suspect, no violent history - just selling illegal smokes, cops walk. Like I said, no penalty for killing an n-word. Its crazy because if I were to run into one of these storm troopers on a ride in the middle of nowhere and I got off the bike he could fill me with lead because I'm big, black and "threatening" :ghostface:

I can't wait to hear what this guy did from our boys in blue that deserved a banned choke hold.

 

[skydivr]

The incident in NY is a little more convoluted. The police did not know this guy had a health condition that made it hard for him to breathe (asthma). It was NOT A CHOKE HOLD, the officer's arm is UNDER the man's arm, not over it (the difference between a choke hold and a takedown hold)...The man had 32 previous charges on his rap sheet, and was resisting the officers who WAITED several minutes of his ranting before they finally used force to subdue him (again, his choice not theirs). And, the word is that he had a previous history of resisting (which the officers may or may not have known about at the time). How many times does a suspect who cries 'foul', start fighting again if the police let him up before cuffing him? All he had to do was let them cuff him; he'd been out of jail with #33 before the day was over - HIS CHOICE led to the situation. Some say they should have just tasered him (if they had a taser on them); given his size it might not have worked, and given his health condition it might have killed him too...

Again, this man created the circumstances of his own free will that led to the takedown. Having said that, when he said he can't breathe they needed to cuff him quick and then see if they can help him, and it is unfortunate that he died over a box of cigs. The GJ didn't think charges should be filed, because they did not see any intent on the officers to kill the man. The real question is: Would he have been treated ANY DIFFERENTLY if he was a big white dude under identical circumstances? Because, if not, then this takedown had NOTHING to do with race.

I do not deny that there is a lot of racial tension right now. I watch our illustrious President, AG, his race-baiter buddies and the press trying really hard to create the strife. I really have to wonder why and what their true agenda is. I think tensions are WORSE since he took office; he had the perfect platform to help bring the races together, and instead of being a UNITER he seems hell-bent on being a DIVIDER.

I've said before, the baiters will continue to look for, and will given the odds eventually find in thousands upon thousands of arrests, a situation that fits what they are looking for...however, they will have to ignore (and the press is helping this) the thousands upon thousands of justified takedowns, and the thousands upon thousands of examples of black on white or black on black violence that goes unnoticed in order to find the ONE that they can justify as an excuse to burn down their own stuff...

 

[Tiller]

The incident in NY is a little more convoluted. The police did not know this guy had a health condition that made it hard for him to breathe (asthma). It was NOT A CHOKE HOLD, the officer's arm is UNDER the man's arm, not over it (the difference between a choke hold and a takedown hold)...The man had 32 previous charges on his rap sheet, and was resisting the officers who WAITED several minutes of his ranting before they finally used force to subdue him (again, his choice not theirs). And, the word is that he had a previous history of resisting (which the officers may or may not have known about at the time). How many times does a suspect who cries 'foul', start fighting again if the police let him up before cuffing him? All he had to do was let them cuff him; he'd been out of jail with #33 before the day was over - HIS CHOICE led to the situation. Some say they should have just tasered him (if they had a taser on them); given his size it might not have worked, and given his health condition it might have killed him too...

Again, this man created the circumstances of his own free will that led to the takedown. Having said that, when he said he can't breathe they needed to cuff him quick and then see if they can help him, and it is unfortunate that he died over a box of cigs. The GJ didn't think charges should be filed, because they did not see any intent on the officers to kill the man. The real question is: Would he have been treated ANY DIFFERENTLY if he was a big white dude under identical circumstances? Because, if not, then this takedown had NOTHING to do with race.

I do not deny that there is a lot of racial tension right now. I watch our illustrious President, AG, his race-baiter buddies and the press trying really hard to create the strife. I really have to wonder why and what their true agenda is. I think tensions are WORSE since he took office; he had the perfect platform to help bring the races together, and instead of being a UNITER he seems hell-bent on being a DIVIDER.

I've said before, the baiters will continue to look for, and will given the odds eventually find in thousands upon thousands of arrests, a situation that fits what they are looking for...however, they will have to ignore (and the press is helping this) the thousands upon thousands of justified takedowns, and the thousands upon thousands of examples of black on white or black on black violence that goes unnoticed in order to find the ONE that they can justify as an excuse to burn down their own stuff...

So much LIKE for this response!!

 

[mysql]

The real question is: Would he have been treated ANY DIFFERENTLY if he was a big white dude under identical circumstances? Because, if not, then this takedown had NOTHING to do with race.

I think the cops were too rough with him when he said he couldn't breath, but I don't see race playing a role with his death.


Here is an example of a white guy getting far worse -- the cops tied him to a chair (naked), put a mask over his face, and sprayed it with pepper spray so he couldn't breath. I don't know how many of you have seen what pepper spray does to a person, but getting sprayed over 10 times, with a mask to keep it pooled by your face, and kept that way for 6 hours in a row, that is going to do some damage. He died.

The deputies then put Christie into a restraining chair, a controversial device that binds inmates at both wrists, both ankles, and across the chest. In depositions, the other inmates, along with a deputy trainee named Monshay Gibbs, testified that Christie was sprayed at least two more times after he had been strapped to the chair. He was also stripped naked, and outfitted with a "spit mask," a hood designed to prevent inmates from spitting on jail personnel. In Christie's case, the mask kept the pepper spray in close proximity to his nose and mouth, ensuring he would continue to inhale it for the full six hours he was in the restraint chair.

According to Gibbs' testimony, Christie pleaded with the deputies, telling them he had a heart condition and numerous other medical problems, and that the spit mask made it difficult for him to breathe. Other inmates have confirmed Gibbs' account, adding that Christie began to turn purple.

...

Christie would suffer multiple heart attacks over the next two days before he was finally declared brain dead and his life support was removed on March 31. Two days after Christie had been transported out of the jail, Deputy Medical Examiner Dr. Robert Pfalzgraf noted in his autopsy report that Christie still had brown-orange liquid pepper spray all over his body.

Pfalzgraf determined that Christie's heart gave out due to stress from his exposure to pepper spray. He ruled the death a homicide.

Death In The Devil's Chair: Florida Man's Pepper Spray Death Raises Questions About Jail Abuse

 

[kitchener rider]

all i saw was the typical american cowboy cop over stating his authority. These cops aren't that bright, with everything going on and everyone catching it with their cell phones you would atleast figure the white cop would have the smarts to think about how this is going to look when he decides to take down the black guy. Most cops I have ran into on the states are decent guys but the ones you see on the news, well smart as a box of hammers.

Ok, what do you "blue curtain" guys have to say about the NY situation? Arrest is on video, guy is not aggressive, band choke hold used by cops, no attempt to revive the suspect, no violent history - just selling illegal smokes, cops walk. Like I said, no penalty for killing an n-word. Its crazy because if I were to run into one of these storm troopers on a ride in the middle of nowhere and I got off the bike he could fill me with lead because I'm big, black and "threatening" :ghostface:

 

[RedBusarider]

OK if you want to talk about NY -

How many cops does it take to arrest someone?

The way I see it there were at least 3 cops holding him down.
When he said he couldn't breathe did the cop choking him think he would get away if he relaxed his grip with
at least 2 others holding him down? Excessive in my opinion. I know some are going to jump and say he was a big man.
Others are going to say the cops were only protecting themselves.

If he was white I would have the same opinion. So to me no race issue.

 

[GNBRETT]

lol are u guys kidding me with the NY case? it wasn't a choke hold it was a take down move. lets hear from the experts how exactly you wud take down a guy that weighs 350 lbs without controlling the head.

control the head you control the body. you guys sound like it was an MAA fight and he had him in a choke hold to his death LMAO! the guy was in a choke hold for like 5-7 seconds then let go. ppl don't die from a choke hold after 5-7 seconds. the guy had asthma and continued to resist arrest. the pressure on his chest from the cops being on top of him is what really caused his breathing to suffer. it was NOT the 5-7 second choke hold.

you guys been watching too much liberal TV like fox.

ppl say they can't breath all the time when fighting with the police and when the police are struggling to handcuff someone thats a good thing for the police. if you can't breath you can't fight but to think that the cop who used a take down hold around his neck was the direct reason he died is comical!

 

[RedBusarider]

So cops always assume that EVERYONE they are going to take down is in perfect health and so they are
lying if they claim they can't breathe so you never have to take that into consideration.? Oh right, that is a good thing for you because they can't fight.

Then after the fact you yell "how were we supposed to know he had a medical condition"?

And if you were in his shoes would you say that the way they threw you to the ground was OK and when
you yelled that you couldn't breathe that they were only doing their job and so it's not their fault that you died? ???

I've seen take downs on the internet, TV news, and of course movies and it seems very rear that someone is
grabbed by the head to control them.

So if I'm ever attacked to you suggest that I grab their head so I can control them?
If you were alone and had to take a suspect down would you use their head?

 

[Lycan6]

It's amazing how everyone picks and chooses what parts of a story they speak on. First of all his asthma did not kill him. If that were the case the medical examiner would not have ruled it a homicide. Did his weight and asthma contribute to it, yes but the choke hold is what lead to it. And yes it was a choke hold. Unless my tv is biased what I see in the video is a tight squeeze from the back around his neck. If that's not a choke then please tell me what is.

Now I agree that he should have just complied with their request but he was being aggressive or threatening? No. And it didn't take a lot to get him down. In your words skydiver it lasted for 5-7 seconds. He was on the ground in about three.

 

[jellyrug]

It is getting real hard to be a cop. If we continue down this path of no respect for authority, either we will have to pay these folks a fortune to get them to work, or the force will deteriorate to a state where it is no longer effective.

Cop talks to man for his "hands in his pockets" - CNN.com Video

 

[fallenarch]

I do have a right to question or disagree with a cop or demand the cop tell me what they are arresting me for. I don't have the right to threaten them physically but I can disagree with what they are asking me to do. You guys can claim it's not a choke hold but the bottom line is it choked him and it killed him and it was ruled a homocide. You guys are pulling the old "are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?"

Bottom line is this happens way too much and it happens disproportionately to minorities. I remember when whites were in complete denial of this problem. Now that we have cameras catching things like this or the cop unloading his gun at a black man who was simply following the cops direction and reaching for his wallet, you guys want to nit-pick each individual occurance. Not everyone is perfect but does that mean they get treated differently by the police? The numbers show it and the anecdotal evidence show it - some cops are targeting minorities.

 

[Lycan6]

It is getting real hard to be a cop. If we continue down this path of no respect for authority, either we will have to pay these folks a fortune to get them to work, or the force will deteriorate to a state where it is no longer effective. Cop talks to man for his "hands in his pockets" - CNN.com Video

So I can't walk down the street with my hands in my pocket? I did nothing else and that's reason to stop me and question me? But I'm wrong for asking questions?

 

[jellyrug]

I do have a right to question or disagree with a cop or demand the cop tell me what they are arresting me for. I don't have the right to threaten them physically but I can disagree with what they are asking me to do. You guys can claim it's not a choke hold but the bottom line is it choked him and it killed him and it was ruled a homocide. You guys are pulling the old "are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?"

Bottom line is this happens way too much and it happens disproportionately to minorities. I remember when whites were in complete denial of this problem. Now that we have cameras catching things like this or the cop unloading his gun at a black man who was simply following the cops direction and reaching for his wallet, you guys want to nit-pick each individual occurance. Not everyone is perfect but does that mean they get treated differently by the police? The numbers show it and the anecdotal evidence show it - some cops are targeting minorities.

Garner had been previously arrested for selling untaxed cigarettes, driving without a licence, marijuana possession, and false personation. He was out on bail. More than 30 arrests since 1980, including assault and resisting arrest. Is this the type of minority the cops should stop targeting. Just asking?

 

[jellyrug]

So I can't walk down the street with my hands in my pocket? I did nothing else and that's reason to stop me and question me? But I'm wrong for asking questions?

Did you watch the whole video? If you are a cop and a business that has been robbed 7 times expresses concern about someone looking suspicious, is it wrong to check the person out?

If it was me with my hands in my pockets, I would have told the officer with a smile why I am walking up and down in front of the store. You see, I had a decent upbringing, being the difference. "Officer, waiting for my wife to pick me up and I am cold, sorry I scared someone" being an example.

The Officer treated the person with respect, did he get respect in return? I don't think so.

I am also sure that after the incident, if the store got robbed, it would be the officers fault for not taking strong enough action. You just can't help them protect and serve, can you?

 

[fallenarch]

Garner had been previously arrested for selling untaxed cigarettes, driving without a licence, marijuana possession, and false personation. He was out on bail. More than 30 arrests since 1980, including assault and resisting arrest. Is this the type of minority the cops should stop targeting. Just asking?

So he should die for that?

 

[fallenarch]

Did you watch the whole video? If you are a cop and a business that has been robbed 7 times expresses concern about someone looking suspicious, is it wrong to check the person out?

If it was me with my hands in my pockets, I would have told the officer with a smile why I am walking up and down in front of the store. You see, I had a decent upbringing, being the difference. "Officer, waiting for my wife to pick me up and I am cold, sorry I scared someone" being an example.

The Officer treated the person with respect, did he get respect in return? I don't think so.

I am also sure that after the incident, if the store got robbed, it would be the officers fault for not taking strong enough action. You just can't help them protect and serve, can you?

The other difference could be that you trust the cop?