Opinions on Ferguson MO

[Lycan6]

Let me help you with that. Here it is;

Garner says "I can't breathe" 9 times! If he would have turned around, got cuffed and was most likely cited and released, he would be alive today..... maybe. If you can speak, YOU CAN BREATHE!

 

[jellyrug]

Since apparently this is difficult to grasp. These are common meanings for detain;

keep (someone) in official custody, typically for questioning about a crime or in politically sensitive situations. Or to keep someone from moving or hold them back is detaining them. So to answer your question yes you are detaining someone when you stop them to ask for directions.

OK, I am now educated in your interpretation of the officer detaining the person in the video, and that you see that as unreasonable. What would you have done, were you the cop in a known crime area, with a call from a business owner feeling uncomfortable about someones movements and asking for help?

 

[TallTom]

Actually, I thought the officer handled this appropriately. He responded to a 911 call, explained to the guy with the video the purpose of his questioning, and once he determined it was ok, moved on. Juxtapose this to the situations where the open carry advocates create 911 calls (justifiable IMHO) which brings officer's attention, and how they deal with those in the same way. Someone calls 911 and reports they see something that makes them think a crime is about to be committed, they gotta showup and check it out. It's all how BOTH PARTIES, both the officer AND THE CITIZEN, need to DEFUSE THE SITUATION with CALM HEADS.

As stated I also agree that the cop in the video handled it correctly. IDK if that was the video camera making that happen or not but that is they way cops should handle it.

To me the kid was clearly trying to bait the cop into another news story. Cops have the higher responsibility to show restraint. They have the training, badges, guns, radios and etc. Approach me as a citizen to investigate a report and I will cooperate to some reasonable extent. If you place a hand on me the rules begin to change.

 

[GNBRETT]

So that I'm clear, any time someone calls and says someone looks suspicious the cops should automatically detain them?

who exactly was detained? he was advised that he was under arrest and he resisted.

they were there investigating a crime from a complaint from the store owner. I see, the store owner has to pay taxes but the criminal who has been arrested more times then he can probably count to is ok to be there and sell cigarettes without paying taxes?

if you resist arrest you WILL be taken to the ground physically and handcuffed. and with a guy this big ur not gettn him to the ground unless u control his head.

 

[skydivr]

Let me help you with that. Here it is;

Garner says "I can't breathe" 9 times! If he would have turned around, got cuffed and was most likely cited and released, he would be alive today..... maybe. If you can speak, YOU CAN BREATHE!

Exactly, there it is...You seem to be focused on that he shouldn't have been cuffed. Him being beligerant and refusing to comply once he was notified he was being placed under arrest created the takedown...HE COULD HAVE TOTALLY WALKED AWAY FROM THIS, but he made his choices...bad ones, apparently....You can second guess those officers all you want, but it doesn't change what the GJ's decision was...you claim to have walked in this man's shoes, but until you've walked in the officer's shoes, you've only seen half of the story. And yes, you can easily turn that on me and say I haven't walked in a black man's shoes - you'd be correct. But I'll bet I wouldn't have a) attacked Officer Wilson and b) been stupid enough to try and argue with FOUR police officers - and I'd probably still be alive today...

 

[RedBusarider]

who exactly was detained? he was advised that he was under arrest and he resisted.

they were there investigating a crime from a complaint from the store owner. I see, the store owner has to pay taxes but the criminal who has been arrested more times then he can probably count to is ok to be there and sell cigarettes without paying taxes?

if you resist arrest you WILL be taken to the ground physically and handcuffed. and with a guy this big ur not gettn him to the ground unless u control his head.

I'm pretty sure that because you are a cop there is nothing that will convince you that they were excessive.
But to us mere citizens, many of us would not want or think that that amount of force was needed.
Without talking about whether he was choked or not - his head was held down forcing his face into the pavement.
If he was an armed citizen that had threatened you (the police) then just maybe we could overlook that amount of force being used.
But seems excessive for a misdemeanor. So is it normal to treat a petty offence the same as a full blown felony? It seems there is no difference.
I guess there is no such thing as the punishment fitting the crime?

Now do you think the cornier was wrong calling it a Homicide? So how can it be a homicide and no one is to blame except the deceased? ???

Why is it that the US government is now cracking down on excessive police force? Could there be a problem?


Don't get me wrong I assume that it is not an easy call, as to how much force to use in every single case.
Yet it almost seems like there is only one mode - fast and hard no matter what. No matter the "crime" - sad to
see that stealing a candy bar is the same as murder.

 

[Lycan6]

who exactly was detained? he was advised that he was under arrest and he resisted. they were there investigating a crime from a complaint from the store owner. I see, the store owner has to pay taxes but the criminal who has been arrested more times then he can probably count to is ok to be there and sell cigarettes without paying taxes? if you resist arrest you WILL be taken to the ground physically and handcuffed. and with a guy this big ur not gettn him to the ground unless u control his head.

We were not talking about MB. Keep up.

 

[Lycan6]

Or NY.

 

[Lycan6]

My point from NY is if he had not done anything that warranted him being cuffed, then why did they feel the need to cuff him? I don't know if it was an offense that warranted being arrested and charged and arraigned or just issued a citation. But if it was the latter then why was there a need to cuff him?

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

No I didn't miss the point. Your post from an officer said it was a quality of life crime just like spraying graffiti and playing loud music. If there in the same category then he should have been issued a citation right? Then why the need to choke him and cuff him? It even said he would have been cuffed and cited and released. My question is why did he need to be cuffed to receive the citation. Give it to him and keep moving.

Maybe you missed where it said ARRESTED 31 TIMES? As in REPEAT OFFENDER. He says in video 'y'all are always hassling me' meaning they knew him and he knew them. I guess after 31 TIMES they decided to arrest him AGAIN? Or would you be happy if they cited someone as obviously disrespectul of the as him?

 

[Lycan6]

So if I'm arrested 31 times and you suspect me of jay walking or any other minor offense such as playing my music too loudly, I'm automatically arrested and handcuffed. Got it.

 

[GNBRETT]

So if I'm arrested 31 times and you suspect me of jay walking or any other minor offense such as playing my music too loudly, I'm automatically arrested and handcuffed. Got it.

thats funny cause last time I checked this 350 lb. career criminal was actually VIOLATING the law when the police confronted him and if you were jay walking you would still be violating the law and the police ask for ur identification and you refuse you will be placed under arrest and if you RESIST like this 350 lb. career criminal did then yes FORCE will be used against you and YES you will be taken to the ground and FORCEFULLY arrested! Got it?

 

[GNBRETT]

We were not talking about MB. Keep up.

who is talking about michael brown? so MB was selling cigarettes? no ur confusing the CRIMINAL that committed at strong arm ROBBERY while STEALING cigars so and his lying sack of chit of a friend could go get HIGH like he was when he assaulted the police officer which resulted in his death. try to keep up....

 

[RedBusarider]

I really wonder if it had been only 1 cop that tried to arrest him if things would have turned out differently.

 

[GNBRETT]

of course its a homicide. anytime a police officer shoots and kills someone its a homicide too but when the suspect puts himself in that situation which resulted in his death then yes the deceased is to blame absolutely.

US government cracking down on excessive force? really? where? what excessive force are u referring to?

grand juries found both the latest incidents to be justified uses of force. if you resist arrest force will be used. from a citizens point of view explain to me how it is you get a 350 lb. man who obviously does not like the police in hand cuffs if he doesn't want to be handcuffed?

have you ever tried handcuffing someone who doesn't want to be handcuffed? I can tell you with 100% conviction that if a 180 lb. man does not want to be handcuffed it is going to take 2-3 cops using a LOT of physical force to get him cuffed.

so now lets look at a 350 lb. man who doesn't want to be handcuffed. its gonna take 4-5 cops to get him cuffed by bringing him to the ground and remember them cuffs will NOT fit around his fat ass. it will require 2-3 sets of cuffs linked together to get him cuffed. you think thats easy? I wud like to see u try it.

try this. get a set of cuffs and have one of ur buddies try to cuff you with you resisting and see if he can even get one cuff on you. ill bet u dollars to donuts he won't even come close without physically hurting you in the process.

but to answer ur last question yes no matter what the crime is if you resist arrest force will be used and if you continue to resist then more force will be applied and if that results in ur death cause ur a 350 lb. fat ass with asthma that cudnt run 20 feet without gasping for air then thats really unfortunate but he has no one to blame but himself.

I'm pretty sure that because you are a cop there is nothing that will convince you that they were excessive.
But to us mere citizens, many of us would not want or think that that amount of force was needed.
Without talking about whether he was choked or not - his head was held down forcing his face into the pavement.
If he was an armed citizen that had threatened you (the police) then just maybe we could overlook that amount of force being used.
But seems excessive for a misdemeanor. So is it normal to treat a petty offence the same as a full blown felony? It seems there is no difference.
I guess there is no such thing as the punishment fitting the crime?

Now do you think the cornier was wrong calling it a Homicide? So how can it be a homicide and no one is to blame except the deceased? ???

Why is it that the US government is now cracking down on excessive police force? Could there be a problem?


Don't get me wrong I assume that it is not an easy call, as to how much force to use in every single case.
Yet it almost seems like there is only one mode - fast and hard no matter what. No matter the "crime" - sad to
see that stealing a candy bar is the same as murder.

 

[Lycan6]

thats funny cause last time I checked this 350 lb. career criminal was actually VIOLATING the law when the police confronted him and if you were jay walking you would still be violating the law and the police ask for ur identification and you refuse you will be placed under arrest and if you RESIST like this 350 lb. career criminal did then yes FORCE will be used against you and YES you will be taken to the ground and FORCEFULLY arrested! Got it?

I really wish you would read my question carefully before going into a rant. According to a NYC cop this was a quality of life crime which according to the same cop should have resulted in a citation. My question was if I have a criminal record and commit such a crime does it warrant hand cuffs?

 

[GNBRETT]

yes a quality of life crime that requires him to provide his ID which he was not doing. eating a stop sign is an infraction as well (fine) and you cannot go to jail for it but if you refuse to give ur identification you will now be subject to arrest and if u resist that arrest force will be used.

so no if its simply a fine and not a misd or felony then no handcuffs would be be appropriate but thats not what happened here. he refused to comply with anything therefore he was advised that he is under arrest which wud of course mean handcuffs when someone is resisting.

I really wish you would read my question carefully before going into a rant. According to a NYC cop this was a quality of life crime which according to the same cop should have resulted in a citation. My question was if I have a criminal record and commit such a crime does it warrant hand cuffs?

 

[RedBusarider]

of course its a homicide. anytime a police officer shoots and kills someone its a homicide too but when the suspect puts himself in that situation which resulted in his death then yes the deceased is to blame absolutely.

US government cracking down on excessive force? really? where? what excessive force are u referring to?

grand juries found both the latest incidents to be justified uses of force. if you resist arrest force will be used. from a citizens point of view explain to me how it is you get a 350 lb. man who obviously does not like the police in hand cuffs if he doesn't want to be handcuffed?

have you ever tried handcuffing someone who doesn't want to be handcuffed? I can tell you with 100% conviction that if a 180 lb. man does not want to be handcuffed it is going to take 2-3 cops using a LOT of physical force to get him cuffed.

so now lets look at a 350 lb. man who doesn't want to be handcuffed. its gonna take 4-5 cops to get him cuffed by bringing him to the ground and remember them cuffs will NOT fit around his fat ass. it will require 2-3 sets of cuffs linked together to get him cuffed. you think thats easy? I wud like to see u try it.

try this. get a set of cuffs and have one of ur buddies try to cuff you with you resisting and see if he can even get one cuff on you. ill bet u dollars to donuts he won't even come close without physically hurting you in the process.

but to answer ur last question yes no matter what the crime is if you resist arrest force will be used and if you continue to resist then more force will be applied and if that results in ur death cause ur a 350 lb. fat ass with asthma that cudnt run 20 feet without gasping for air then thats really unfortunate but he has no one to blame but himself.

US government cracking down on excessive force? really? where? what excessive force are u referring to?

Watch the 11:00 news tonight as it will tell you.

I can tell you with 100% conviction that if a 180 lb. man does not want to be handcuffed it is going to take 2-3 cops using a LOT of physical force to get him cuffed.

So are you saying that you never try to handcuff anyone by yourself? Because if they resisted you couldn't do it and you would have to shoot them?

but to answer ur last question yes no matter what the crime is if you resist arrest force will be used

So I was right stealing a candy bar is the same as murder to you. Hit them hard and fast no matter what. Since you are ALWAYS right.

 

[Strife]

I really wish you would read my question carefully before going into a rant. According to a NYC cop this was a quality of life crime which according to the same cop should have resulted in a citation. My question was if I have a criminal record and commit such a crime does it warrant hand cuffs?

All I know is no matter why you are being arrested wrongfully or not, at the time of arrest is not the time to argue your innocence and protest. YOU ARE BEING ARRESTED... LET THEM ARREST YOU AND TAKE IT UP IN COURT. I am curious on how should he of been arrested when he resisted? There is no debate from the moment you are under arrest. You have no choice but to comply or be forced to comply.

 

[GNBRETT]

thats an Obama knee jerk reaction to appease his constitutes. there is always some excessive force somewhere in this country that the FBI is investigating. what ur seeing is nothing new. been going on since the 60's.

sure we try to handcuff ppl by themselves. I'm not sure where you get having to shoot someone who is resisting arrest unless ur referring to someone who is trying to gain access to my weapon then yes they will be shot! multiple times!

yes u steal a candy bar or commit a murder and you resist arrest force will be used and if u continue to resist more force will be used.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about cops and placing ppl under arrest. its not an eye for an eye. if you try to punch me I will smash you with my stick. you try to strike me with a stick I will shoot you. its not and never has been nor ever will be a FAIR fight nor is it supposed to be. this is not a boxing match with rules. the only rule that matters is that I go home at night and if that means the criminal is dead as a result cause HE brought it to that level then so be it.....

you keep dodging the question..... how wud YOU handcuff a 350 lb. man who doesn't want to be handcuffed?

US government cracking down on excessive force? really? where? what excessive force are u referring to?

Watch the 11:00 news tonight as it will tell you.

I can tell you with 100% conviction that if a 180 lb. man does not want to be handcuffed it is going to take 2-3 cops using a LOT of physical force to get him cuffed.

So are you saying that you never try to handcuff anyone by yourself? Because if they resisted you couldn't do it and you would have to shoot them?

but to answer ur last question yes no matter what the crime is if you resist arrest force will be used

So I was right stealing a candy bar is the same as murder to you. Hit them hard and fast no matter what. Since you are ALWAYS right.