Opinions on Ferguson MO

[fallenarch]

If you listen to all the witnesses who have experience in telling the truth. And if you use your own judgement. And if you look at what LEO's do, how they react. And if you look at our legal system, including the courts. What do you think the future of the Hayabusa looks like?

Excellent question, who thought of it for you? I think bikes like the Hayabusa will be killed off by electric bikes with gyros that keep them upright and sensors that stop them when you are about to get crunched. Then the Busa will be like an old muscle car and movie stars like and 80 year old Bruce Willis will ride them in Die Hard 20.

 

[Lycan6]

If we already know he killed 6 people, the rest of the process is nothing more than an examination of why he did it.

Simple. Innocent until proven guilty. OJ got off because of the system. Everybody knows he did it but you have to prove it. Everyone expected him to be found guilty. The Trayvon Martin case, people expected Zimmerman to be found guilty but when he wasn't there were no riots or looting because the system ran its course. Were people upset yes but the system did its job. It took a while though, but ultimate it did. I think people just want the same to apply to police officers. It's far too easy to say I was in fear of my life as a police officer to justify a shooting.

 

[fallenarch]

This is amazing: Cops shot man at Walmart, then interrogated girlfriend - CNN.com and this Ohio Walmart video reveals moments before officer killed John Crawford | US news | The Guardian I guess they will start looking into this guys background to find some way to claim he deserved it?
Like I said, shooting n-words is just a cost of doing business.

 

[jellyrug]

This is amazing: Cops shot man at Walmart, then interrogated girlfriend - CNN.com and this Ohio Walmart video reveals moments before officer killed John Crawford | US news | The Guardian I guess they will start looking into this guys background to find some way to claim he deserved it?
Like I said, shooting n-words is just a cost of doing business.

Try and be a bit more neutral and remove some of the bias.

Three indictments against South Carolina police officers in past 4 months - CBS News

 

[fallenarch]

Try and be a bit more neutral and remove some of the bias.

Three indictments against South Carolina police officers in past 4 months - CBS News

When you said neutral i thought you were going to post an example of a white guy getting shot because he was shopping for a pellet gun........

 

[skydivr]

Just consider:

Dad/Brett, thanks for what you do. Not everybody holds your profession in contempt.

 

[jellyrug]

When you said neutral i thought you were going to post an example of a white guy getting shot because he was shopping for a pellet gun........

You forgot my previous post, where I mentioned I don't talk about the "color" of people, but rather their attitudes and their value systems?

Statistically it is probable that someone from a troubled neighborhood gets treated with a bit more caution, if he is blonde, or has red hair makes no difference.

When are you going to get over this "color" thing? They have been trying to fix this problem since June 22, 1865. Get with the times, bro, including the President, we are all the same. Troubled communities remain troubled communities though, it is hard to recruit police officers from there and it is a challenge to police.

 

[Lycan6]

Just consider:

Dad/Brett, thanks for what you do. Not everybody holds your profession in contempt.

So in here does?

 

[Lycan6]

Just consider:

Dad/Brett, thanks for what you do. Not everybody holds your profession in contempt.

Fr every video like that you find, unfortunately here are probably 3 to one just like this.

 

[jellyrug]

So in here does?

Lots of possible replies, explain a bit clearer. If I think you ask what you mean, my reply is ready, but I may be mistaken.

 

[fallenarch]

You forgot my previous post, where I mentioned I don't talk about the "color" of people, but rather their attitudes and their value systems?

Statistically it is probable that someone from a troubled neighborhood gets treated with a bit more caution, if he is blonde, or has red hair makes no difference.

When are you going to get over this "color" thing? They have been trying to fix this problem since June 22, 1865. Get with the times, bro, including the President, we are all the same. Troubled communities remain troubled communities though, it is hard to recruit police officers from there and it is a challenge to police.

When are you going to acknowledge it so we can start to address the issues it influences? I don't feel like going through this all over again though, as some people are simply not ever going to acknowledge the obvious.

 

[jellyrug]

When are you going to acknowledge it so we can start to address the issues it influences? I don't feel like going through this all over again though, as some people are simply not ever going to acknowledge the obvious.

I grew up in South Africa, where I acknowledged the obvious you refer to with circumstances more difficult than you could imagine.

I have been here now 14 years and have never noticed any difference between groups of people from different origins, especially Africa. That is why I cannot acknowledge something I have not experienced. Perhaps the state and city I live in and perhaps my circle of friends, people I work with and people I associate with are just very different to your circumstances? This discussion is almost a new experience for me, realizing how stuck someone can be over a simple DNA feature.

As a naturalized citizen, this country accepted me with open arms, something I am extremely grateful for.

I have done business in most parts of the world and lived and worked in many countries. I don't think you appreciate what you have as a born citizen.

 

[Lycan6]

Lots of possible replies, explain a bit clearer. If I think you ask what you mean, my reply is ready, but I may be mistaken.

So who in this group does hold the police in contempt? Is that clearer?

 

[TallTom]

I think that attitude is part of the problem. First we make the victim evil, then we suspend their rights because we don't like them or they are obviously guilty. If a person can't control themselves (insane) they can't commit murder because there is no intent. We can't find that out if they are executed at the arrest.

Either we have a system of laws or we don't. Following the law sometimes stinks, but you have to respect the system or it means nothing. I hear a lot of people who go around waving the constitution like a bible until they don't like someone and then they want to just throw it away and get their revenge.

Now you are going to say I'm no the side of a guy who killed 6 people and that is not correct. I believe in our system and I'm not going to let a maggot like this dude corrupt it.

And I will accept your point. Now go look at what we both agree to above in bold that you said. While I don't mind if the guys is dead, I will let the system work as its designed to. And this is an example of precisely why we have this system in place. Just because I think a man that killed 6 of his family members should die, doesn't make me right.

In a nutshell that is kinda what this whole thread is about isn't it?

There are a group of people that think MB made his own bed, then there are others that think, he was jacked up by the cops. That is why we have a system that we are supposed to depend on to find right more often than it finds wrong.

If I killed the man who killed 6 of my family members, I'd go up on charges for it. Then you got to find a jury that would listen to circumstances and rule based on their sense of justice. The jury in MB has spoken. The process is the same. Following the law sometimes stinks, but you have to respect the system or it means nothing.

Thank you Fallen.

 

[jellyrug]

So who in this group does hold the police in contempt? Is that clearer?

Yes, that is what I thought you asked. The answer is, it appears to be a very small minority.

 

[TallTom]

So who in this group does hold the police in contempt? Is that clearer?

Whoa. New topic now. I do not hold police in contempt. I hold individual cops in contempt when they conduct themselves in a contemptuous manner.

In the case of Mike Brown, I hold no contempt for the cops actions. I think leaving the body out in the open air for what appears to be 4 hours starts to make me feel like it could have been handled better afterwords, but the rest sort of becomes opinion and conjecture as to what we think. I think the cops waving assault rifles at the protestors saying I'm gonna effin kill you is a problem.

 

[Lycan6]

Whoa. New topic now. I do not hold police in contempt. I hold individual cops in contempt when they conduct themselves in a contemptuous manner.

In the case of Mike Brown, I hold no contempt for the cops actions. I think leaving the body out in the open air for what appears to be 4 hours starts to make me feel like it could have been handled better afterwords, but the rest sort of becomes opinion and conjecture as to what we think. I think the cops waving assault rifles at the protestors saying I'm gonna effin kill you is a problem.

i didnt say you did or anyone else did. I was asking a question as it appears that apparently there are some in this group that do which is what I am trying to assess who jellyrug feels has comtempt for police.Simmer down.

 

[GNBRETT]

Let's just say for the sake of it that it was legal for him to fire at him while he was retreating. The fact that he was fearful of his life should have gone away too, correct? Then how can you justify killing him as the only option available at that time. Many of you have said that a bullet does not stop a 300 lb man. How about a taser? doesnt that go straight to the nervous system? My only pont in this from the beginning is that based on undisputable eveidence the officer had time to use something other than deadly force. That undisputable evidence? The location of his body in proximaty to office Wilson's vehicle. More than 100 feet away. I'm not a LEO. I've never been in a situation like that. However, LEOs are trained in how to deal with situations like this and it seems that the training is one dimensional. That is if you fire the weapon, dont stop shooting until they stop moving. I even saw a tshirt somehwere that said if they're still breathing, then you keep squeezing. I think that is where the flaw is. There should be some consideration of the life of the felon, thug, animal, savage, whatever you want to call it. Its still a human life and its someones father, son, brother, etc. Just as much as the officer has the right to come home at the end of his shift, so does the criminal deserve their day in court, becasue in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. I will go on to say that if all of the shots fired where right at the vehicle, i would probably feel that offier Wilson was right in defending himself. But even his testimony suggests he had time to make decisions that would not have resulted in the death of MB.

Now here's a story that i bet no one has heard about becasue it happended a few days after the MB situation. A white unarmed male that was wanted on felony charges was shot and killed by a non-white officer. The officer thought he was reaching into his waiste for a gun. Did he see a gun? no. but his justification was he thought he was because his hands went to his waist. This officer too, was wrong. LEOs have to stop reacting to the slightest movements that people make. Apparently he was pulling up his sagging pants so he could get down on the ground. this happended in Utah. I believeand the victims last name is Taylor. So i'm not just raving about a black man being shot by a white officer, which does happen quite often, but any situation where someone is shot by LEOs becasue they thought they had a weapon beacuse that seems to be the scapegoat everytme.

Whenever i get pulled over I have to run through a checklist to make sure i dont do anything suspicious. That's sad to be fearful of law enforecement. I have no record. Im not a threat. i have no CCW, dont need it, but yet i worry whats going to happen to me anytime i get pulled over. That's real life for me and for most men of color everyday. And please take special note that i did not single out white from black or brown, but LEO in general.

This is what i worry about.
South Carolina trooper shot unarmed man, police say - CNN.com

what are u not understanding about the use of deadly force? u sound like a broken record!

wen a suspect reaches for ur weapon and assaults u in the process it becomes a DEADLY force situation. it is NOT a less lethal situation where a cop would use a Taser. if he has shot him its a DEADLY force situation and it will be a DEADLY force situation until the guy either complies OR is shot dead. this criminal decided the latter. there is no ull have ur day in court when ur trying to disarm a cop and take his weapon. doesn't work like that sorry....

you don't shoot someone then reach for ur Taser. a Taser is a NON DEADLY force situation. if he has shot him and exits his vehicle and follows him for a distance and he decides to turn and charge the officer he did not comply and will be shot again because he has already demonstrated the fact that he wants ur weapon.

the suspect is 300 lbs and strong as you have just experienced in the car wen he was goin for ur weapon. if a suspect wants ur weapon what do u think he's gonna do with it wen he gets it? run off with it? yea ok..... u really need to start exercising some common sense.

the trooper story is old news. was the trooper wrong? yep. but if u watch the video u will see it cud have gone either way. sure he was trying to get his wallet but he cud have just as easily been reaching for a gun and if he had been reaching for a gun then you wudnt be sayn chit about this wud you?

u don't think suspects can and have reached for guns and shot cops in that manner? think again. yes the trooper was wrong and over reacted. he shud hav gone for cover first behind his vehicle if he was fearful he had a weapon but chit happens in a flash and sometimes mistakes are made.

you seem to be under the impression the cops are not human and don't make mistakes. cops base their actions on what their experiences are and what information they hear over the radio day in and day out. no that doesn't mean a cop shud paint a picture that a black man is more dangerous to him then anyone else cause anyone can hurt you.

law of averages. the cops have more negative encounters with black communities then any other.....

Are blacks to blame for cops' actions? - Chicago Tribune

"Black-on-black crime" is the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community," he asserted on NBC's "Meet the Press." "So why don't (they) cut it down so so many white police officers don't have to be in black areas?"

In this view, African-Americans have only themselves to blame for the presence and behavior of cops in their neighborhoods. If they would get serious about cleaning up the problems in their own communities, police would not be arresting or killing so many black people.

There's an element of truth to this line of argument. Violent crime rates are far higher among blacks than among whites and other groups. One reason cops have a disproportionate number of interactions with African-American males is that these men commit a disproportionate number of offenses."

 

[skydivr]

So who in this group does hold the police in contempt? Is that clearer?

NOOO Lycan that was NOT DIRECTED AT ANY MEMBER OF THIS FORUM - it was totally directed at those who are out there showing zero respect for the law, screaming about wanting dead cops, etc. Debating police rights and wrongs does not qualify as contempt.

But I can see you might take that way and that was not my intention AT ALL.

 

[Lycan6]

what are u not understanding about the use of deadly force? u sound like a broken record!

wen a suspect reaches for ur weapon and assaults u in the process it becomes a DEADLY force situation. it is NOT a less lethal situation where a cop would use a Taser. if he has shot him its a DEADLY force situation and it will be a DEADLY force situation until the guy either complies OR is shot dead. this criminal decided the latter. there is no ull have ur day in court when ur trying to disarm a cop and take his weapon. doesn't work like that sorry.... And if he had shot and killed him at this point, I would not have an issue with it.

you don't shoot someone then reach for ur Taser. a Taser is a NON DEADLY force situation. if he has shot him and exits his vehicle and follows him for a distance and he decides to turn and charge the officer he did not comply and will be shot again because he has already demonstrated the fact that he wants ur weapon. But if he has realizd he's efed up and decides to run away, why does this scenario have to end in death?

the suspect is 300 lbs and strong as you have just experienced in the car wen he was goin for ur weapon. if a suspect wants ur weapon what do u think he's gonna do with it wen he gets it? run off with it? yea ok..... u really need to start exercising some common sense. what are you talking about here?

the trooper story is old news. was the trooper wrong? yep. but if u watch the video u will see it cud have gone either way. sure he was trying to get his wallet but he cud have just as easily been reaching for a gun and if he had been reaching for a gun then you wudnt be sayn chit about this wud you?

u don't think suspects can and have reached for guns and shot cops in that manner? think again. yes the trooper was wrong and over reacted. he shud hav gone for cover first behind his vehicle if he was fearful he had a weapon but chit happens in a flash and sometimes mistakes are made.

you seem to be under the impression the cops are not human and don't make mistakes. cops base their actions on what their experiences are and what information they hear over the radio day in and day out. no that doesn't mean a cop shud paint a picture that a black man is more dangerous to him then anyone else cause anyone can hurt you. My point in all this is that cops do make mistakes and when they make mistakes, they too need to be held accountable. And the farse thatis usually to decide if charges are even brought forward is rediculous.

law of averages. the cops have more negative encounters with black communities then any other.....

Are blacks to blame for cops' actions? - Chicago Tribune

"Black-on-black crime" is the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community," he asserted on NBC's "Meet the Press." "So why don't (they) cut it down so so many white police officers don't have to be in black areas?"

In this view, African-Americans have only themselves to blame for the presence and behavior of cops in their neighborhoods. If they would get serious about cleaning up the problems in their own communities, police would not be arresting or killing so many black people.

There's an element of truth to this line of argument. Violent crime rates are far higher among blacks than among whites and other groups. One reason cops have a disproportionate number of interactions with African-American males is that these men commit a disproportionate number of offenses."

Not for one moment do i suggest that blacks are responsible for what happens i their neighborhoods. If we all did what we are suppose to do, then none of this would happen right? Wrong. becasue it doenst matter what your status is in life, if you are a black man you are going to be viewed as a threat untilproven otherwise, and too often otherwise has resulted in an umarmed shooting. but again iget it. we make peole nervous and its our own fault, but that still doesnt mean that everyone is a threat.

just last night a saw another situation where a black police officer was assaulted by other police officers een after he idientified himslef as such. WTH? I just dont get it.