Opinions on Ferguson MO

You think I'm a redneck cop and I think your trying to protect and justify the actions of a thug.. Frankly I don't care what color they are but the facts are clear and you can't deny it Arch the black community has a problem with violence, that sir is why they are dying at a higher rate..

So you think thugs deserve a different treatment under the law? I actually don't really get your position. I said you can't blame a cop out there trying to do their job. I said most cops are cool and that I have never had a bad experience except a couple unreasonable stops when I was younger. My point is we need to do something about this and frankly, I don't see how you can be against that. I won't go into why a lot of violence happens in the black community - no way you could handle that.

I know I get a bit windy on my posts but clearly you guys aren't reading them completely before you go angry man on me. Oh well...............
 
What are you going to do to try and get laws changed? Edit....I went back and reviewed the chart as well as i can on my phone. The point I was making earlier regarding eyewitnesses is evident in the last column....number of shots fired.
That's true. MB is **** 6 times. Witnesses say 7, 8, 9, some said 10. Some said four which we know not to be true. So I now go back to my previous question which was at what point in MB running away from him did he feel his life was in danger to be shooting at him? I also read some place that he lie in the street approximately 150 feet from Wilsons truck. 300lb gunshot victim, high on weed. How long did it take him to run let's say 160 feet before turning back toward the officer. I will guesstimate about 7 -9 seconds. That's a lot of time for a trained LEO to make a non-split second decision. IMO
 
Maybe you should have read a few more posts down, where I clearly made a correction that the hold depicted in the pic IS considered by many a choke hold, as this hold was taken when the other one with his arm under the suspects arm didn't bring the man down...maybe you should read better....

Maybe I should "read better" perhaps you should comprehend the fact that I was responding to a specific post. OBVIOUSLY I hadn't read any further, why should I have. Your standing on it is very clear, it wasn't like 2 post down your opinion would have changed you would have just done like you did now and make a slighted excuse as to what happened to justify it. Here's the thing, You can't justify wrong, wrong is wrong, PERIOD.

Was Mike Brown a scum ball, probably. Did he need to die, no. Wrong is wrong, no amount of you pulling the blinds over your own conscious will change the opinions of people who view this with a much broader mind scope. I, as a black man would have probably shot Mike Brown too, but I wouldn't have shot him to kill him as that officer obviously did. (can't be argues that it was excessive, if you think you need to shoot a person that many times at close range then you have never operated a fire arm)


And, like I said, that's exactly WHY I couldn't be a cop. I ask you the same question, if someone was doing that in YOUR face, could YOU maintain the same self-control? Day after day, leaving home not knowing if you'll come back? They KNOW they are not above the law - if they did, do you think they would have sat there and took it? Their actions PROVE they know they aren't above the law. But it appears that the pissant coward taunting them ALSO knows they can't do it....your comment is inaccurate...


You couldn't be a coupe but you'd be one hell of a reporter for Fox News. I don't need to answer the question you presented because I already broke it down. That is his job, point blank period. When you can no long perform your duties you need to grab a desk job or leave the force. When a doctor can no longer stand the sight of blood or make intelligent choices he steps down. When a wood worker can no longer properly fit a dove tail they retire. When a wheel can no longer hold air it gets replaced before an inevitable accident happens. This is fact, can not be argued by anyone. These cops are trained for what they do and are compensated well for it. You grow up your entire life knowing the dangers of being a cop so to then decided to go that route and have an excuse as if you didn't already know is bull.

They need to be made accountable for mistakes and they will have an incentive to have less of them.

Nothing I have said is inaccurate. As you can see I use reasoning when formulating these replies. You are going off of what you think would happen and making excuses. We dont need to make excuses for them. Do your job how you are suppose to or suffer the consequences. That's it.


Did you read, buy chance, that the man's family does NOT believe this was race-motivated? If this were a big white guy, the same thing that happened would not receive one bit of press coverage. Which is the point I'm making. It seems that there is this huge chip on some peoples shoulders, forever perpetuated by Al/Jesse/NAACP that views EVERYTHING thru race-colored lenses, waiting and hoping for someone to knock the chip off, or even DARE mention it. The point you continually miss is that this has been made in to a huge story by race-baiters who are using it for their own purpose, and those out burning their own stuff down are the pawns. Are their injustices committed? Sure, but the white people beat/killed by black people doesn't have the white community burning their neighborhoods down (and if the do, I'll condemn it IDENTICALLY). Sure, protest all they want, chant all they want, talk and discuss and try to get people to understand them - but their message is totally LOST when the rioting starts. It's setting relations BACKWARDS.


Did you read, buy chance, anywhere in my post that suggested I believed it was racial? Cause I can tell you right now I could care less about the fact the man was black or if he was green. Again, wrong is wrong, the way that situation was handled was excessive, period. These cops know they can get away with going over board so they do it. If there were heavier penalties, suspensions WITHOUT pay and more people serving time for the mistakes then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What white people beat and killed? Can you post some of this please? Most white people are killed by other white people just as most blacks are killed by blacks. The thing you fail to comprehend is that this isn't JUST about race. MOST people upset over this stuff are just tired of cops in general abusing their power.

And to dispell your comment about them having peaceful protest... Falls upon death ears, people like you who will just say "well the cop was stress so its ok this guy died..." This rioting however has worked in getting the attention they wanted and it will also work in getting the results they wanted. People will eventually demand the head of one of these cops or else they will take it for themselves. This is how history repeats itself.


Eventually, there WILL be an instance where it's CLEAR that the officer/s use excessive force or make a huge mistake. When that happens, these race-baiters will have event they are looking and hoping for. That's when it may get nasty. Having said that, when I see it being a mistake, I'll say it was a mistake as RACE IS NOT THE ISSUE WITH ME, and it SHOULD NOT BE WITH ANYONE.

The really SAD thing is, that the people who rioted and looted didn't help themselves OR their stated 'cause'; in fact they only cause FURTHER mistrust.

There have been MANY. Just because you are so far to the left that you can't agree with it that doesn't mean we need things to get worse. Everyone loses in this situation and I am sorry to inform you that if you think the cops retaliating due to "further mistrust" is an proper action then that goes to show how far gone your reasoning is. Cops need to take the high road and accept accountability. The more stuff like this happens in the gray area the more upset people will be and the worse things will get.

This is America, policing the people with military, many of which are from such poverty stricken areas wont end well for anyone. Use of force on our own people by the military wont be tolerated by anyone.

Next cop who fks up on the job and makes a mistake needs to serve time, be fired, suspended with out pay or all of the above. There is no other option at this point. Do the right thing, let people feel that the cops arent above the law and they will calm back down. Keep proving to them that cops are above the law and people will then fight back.

This isn't a black or white thing so you might want to stop making it into one with all of your post.
 
I'm sure the witnesses (who are never wrong) know way more then the TWO forensic pathologists that examined the body!

you shud really just stop posting altogether cause ur really started to sound like an idiot! for the LAST time MB did NOT run away from anyone. he ran towards the officer after the cop exited his vehicle and ordered him on the ground.

That's true. MB is **** 6 times. Witnesses say 7, 8, 9, some said 10. Some said four which we know not to be true. So I now go back to my previous question which was at what point in MB running away from him did he feel his life was in danger to be shooting at him? I also read some place that he lie in the street approximately 150 feet from Wilsons truck. 300lb gunshot victim, high on weed. How long did it take him to run let's say 160 feet before turning back toward the officer. I will guesstimate about 7 -9 seconds. That's a lot of time for a trained LEO to make a non-split second decision. IMO
 
I, as a black man would have probably shot Mike Brown too, but I wouldn't have shot him to kill him as that officer obviously did. (can't be argues that it was excessive, if you think you need to shoot a person that many times at close range then you have never operated a fire arm)
another CLUELESS street lawyer.....smh. try to pay attention here cause its been said many time now. COPS do NOT shoot to injure. they shoot to STOP which means you shoot center mass which is where all of ur vital organs are located so yea when a cop shoots someone it usually results in death.

and under stress most ppl including cops will miss several times therefore multiple shots are ALWAYS discharged. do a little research before you come onto a forum and make a fool out of urself!
 
So you think thugs deserve a different treatment under the law? I actually don't really get your position. I said you can't blame a cop out there trying to do their job. I said most cops are cool and that I have never had a bad experience except a couple unreasonable stops when I was younger. My point is we need to do something about this and frankly, I don't see how you can be against that. I won't go into why a lot of violence happens in the black community - no way you could handle that.

I know I get a bit windy on my posts but clearly you guys aren't reading them completely before you go angry man on me. Oh well...............

Fallen... If you be so kind as to give me your perception on what exactly happened and how exactly it should of been done differently?
 
Fallen... If you be so kind as to give me your perception on what exactly happened and how exactly it should of been done differently?

I think Wilson thought MB had just committed an armed robbery. He rolled up on them and when he realized that they fit the suspects in the robbery he either went directly for his gun or said something to MB (like he was supposed to do, BTW). I think MB was wondering why the cop was being so aggressive and reacted to it, as I'm sure he erroneously thought stealing the $15 cigarillos was not something the cops would care about (or even know about for that matter). If something was said between the two that caused MB to attack the officer, then Wilson pulled his gun after being hit. If Wilson pulled his weapon as soon as he realized that MB fit the robbery suspect description MB fought Wilson as a reaction to the gun. Which ever way this went MB was wrong and at that point was already headed to jail.

When the gun discharged, I think twice actually with Wilson still in the car and MB reaching into the car, MB and his friend ran. From here on is where things are less clear and the evidence less conclusive IMHO. I believe Wilson got out of the car and shot at MB probably hitting him in the back of the arm. MB probably turned back to Wilson when hit. MB stopped and turned and may have moved back toward Wilson, when Wilson finished him off with the shots that hit his head. I think he probably made some gesture of surrender, maybe Wilson didn't understand it. For me the primary question is was there a point with those last shots where Wilson didn't need to continue using force to get MB under control. My gut feeling is there was a point Wilson could have stopped shooting, but maybe not (or maybe the distinction is so slight it is irrelevant). I just don't buy that a guy would "charge" a cop shooting at him. Maybe if he was full of angel dust but MB had been smoking MJ, so it doesn't follow to me. Also MB was only 150 feet from the squad car I think, so unless Wilson followed him I don't get the threat.

So this is not a case like the one in NY where the cops see a guy unlocking his door and say they thought he had a weapon and unloaded 40 rounds into him. That guy wasn't even a suspect in a crime! This was a case where deadly force was necessary and the question was did Wilson continue on the deadly defense too long? But the real problem is how the department handled this incident. Releasing negative information on MB while freezing all information on what happened. The amount of time MB's body lay in the street. The GJ looked at the evidence from the perspective of Wilson's story being true - it is the prosecutor's job to present an alternative scenario that also fits the evidence, which he apparently didn't. The prosecutors didn't even ask for charges. Finally the way the department rolled out the strong-arm stuff on those first days. It looked like the Ferguson PD was saying to the community we shot him down and we'll shoot you down if you say anything about it. Clearly there are enough unresolved facts in this case to warrant a trial, and the grand jury was wrong to make decisions that should have been left to a jury. But I don't see how Wilson could possibly be convicted of murder or even manslaughter had there been a trial. Murder requires intent, and I don't see how you can get there with Wilson. He was apparently a good cop who hadn't even discharged his gun before. Manslaughter requires reckless negligence and I don't think Wilson was negligent being as MB attacked him.

So I don't think this is a good example of police using excessive force because MB did too many things to warrant Wilson shooting him. The prosecutor should not have asked for a GJ, that was a punk political move that really made things worse. The GJ should have delivered an indictment because there are some questionable things that a jury should decide. So in this case it is more the PD f'n things up so they look guilty of a cover up. But just because MB may have asked to be shot doesn't mean there isn't a problem with PDs using excessive force on minorities. I think what stirs up the black community is the position the system has that no matter what the statistics say, we aren't going to acknowledge this issue or do anything about it.


That's the best I can do as far as my opinion. I didn't fact check this it's sort of off the top of my head.

I edited this because in the description I said MB stopped and turned to Wilson after taking several hits. This was wrong because only the one shot hit the back side of MB. The medical examiner said it's possible to hit the back of the arm from the front - which I totally don't buy.
 
Ya know, there are lots of varying, even differing, opinions in this thread. I suspect that is due in large part to varying levels of information and/or understanding of that information. However, I also suspect that some these differences are explained by our own assumptions, which probably also vary when looking at the same data.

That said, I'd like to point out some unifying opinions among all of us:

1) It's tragic that someone had to die
2) Brown was no angel, but it's STILL tragic that he died
3) The officer had the right to defend himself

We can debate the details of what either party "intended", what they "deserved", whose fault it was, whether or not the witnesses are reliable, if the investigation was corrupt, etc. But I take heart in the fact that we all value life, seek justice and are invested enough in doing so to voice our beliefs and opinions on the matter.

We're all brothers in all this stuff, one way or another. The better we treat each other, the better it is for everyone.

Recognizing and remembering that goes a long way to creating constructive dialog and understanding.

Be well everyone!
 
I'm sure the witnesses (who are never wrong) know way more then the TWO forensic pathologists that examined the body! you shud really just stop posting altogether cause ur really started to sound like an idiot! for the LAST time MB did NOT run away from anyone. he ran towards the officer after the cop exited his vehicle and ordered him on the ground.
Now I'm an idiot. Seems to me that you are the one that can't put together a well thought out argument even when information is presented. Here you have witness accounts of what happened. The same witness accounts that you and others have relied on to justify the officers actions. But I'm the idiot. If I'm the idiot the. I guess you're a bigot.
 
I'm sure the witnesses (who are never wrong) know way more then the TWO forensic pathologists that examined the body! you shud really just stop posting altogether cause ur really started to sound like an idiot! for the LAST time MB did NOT run away from anyone. he ran towards the officer after the cop exited his vehicle and ordered him on the ground.
And since you at so brilliant then lease explain to us all how he ends up more than 100 feet away from the vehicle if he was not running.
 
Ya know, there are lots of varying, even differing, opinions in this thread. I suspect that is due in large part to varying levels of information and/or understanding of that information. However, I also suspect that some these differences are explained by our own assumptions, which probably also vary when looking at the same data.

That said, I'd like to point out some unifying opinions among all of us:

1) It's tragic that someone had to die
2) Brown was no angel, but it's STILL tragic that he died
3) The officer had the right to defend himself

We can debate the details of what either party "intended", what they "deserved", whose fault it was, whether or not the witnesses are reliable, if the investigation was corrupt, etc. But I take heart in the fact that we all value life, seek justice and are invested enough in doing so to voice our beliefs and opinions on the matter.

We're all brothers in all this stuff, one way or another. The better we treat each other, the better it is for everyone.

Recognizing and remembering that goes a long way to creating constructive dialog and understanding.

Be well everyone!


I agree with the first half of number two and all of number three.
Tragedy occurs to me when innocent people are involved.
This is more like Kharma freshly served.
What's that ole sayin'? 'Live by the sword, die by the sword.'

Rob store, toss store clerk aside, attack cop and get shot.
And people are surprised?
What's tragic is MB didn't just pay the four dollars for the cigars he stole. Had he done that he would still be alive. The chain of events which happened after that were set in motion by him and him alone.
 
I think Wilson thought MB had just committed an armed robbery. He rolled up on them and when he realized that they fit the suspects in the robbery he either went directly for his gun or said something to MB (like he was supposed to do, BTW). I think MB was wondering why the cop was being so aggressive and reacted to it, as I'm sure he erroneously thought stealing the $15 cigarillos was not something the cops would care about (or even know about for that matter). If something was said between the two that caused MB to attack the officer, then Wilson pulled his gun after being hit. If Wilson pulled his weapon as soon as he realized that MB fit the robbery suspect description MB fought Wilson as a reaction to the gun. Which ever way this went MB was wrong and at that point was already headed to jail.

When the gun discharged, I think twice actually with Wilson still in the car and MB reaching into the car, MB and his friend ran. From here on is where things are less clear and the evidence less conclusive IMHO. I believe Wilson got out of the car and shot at MB probably hitting him in the back of the arm. MB probably turned back to Wilson when hit. MB stopped and turned and may have moved back toward Wilson, when Wilson finished him off with the shots that hit his head. I think he probably made some gesture of surrender, maybe Wilson didn't understand it. For me the primary question is was there a point with those last shots where Wilson didn't need to continue using force to get MB under control. My gut feeling is there was a point Wilson could have stopped shooting, but maybe not (or maybe the distinction is so slight it is irrelevant). I just don't buy that a guy would "charge" a cop shooting at him. Maybe if he was full of angel dust but MB had been smoking MJ, so it doesn't follow to me. Also MB was only 150 feet from the squad car I think, so unless Wilson followed him I don't get the threat.

So this is not a case like the one in NY where the cops see a guy unlocking his door and say they thought he had a weapon and unloaded 40 rounds into him. That guy wasn't even a suspect in a crime! This was a case where deadly force was necessary and the question was did Wilson continue on the deadly defense too long? But the real problem is how the department handled this incident. Releasing negative information on MB while freezing all information on what happened. The amount of time MB's body lay in the street. The GJ looked at the evidence from the perspective of Wilson's story being true - it is the prosecutor's job to present an alternative scenario that also fits the evidence, which he apparently didn't. The prosecutors didn't even ask for charges. Finally the way the department rolled out the strong-arm stuff on those first days. It looked like the Ferguson PD was saying to the community we shot him down and we'll shoot you down if you say anything about it. Clearly there are enough unresolved facts in this case to warrant a trial, and the grand jury was wrong to make decisions that should have been left to a jury. But I don't see how Wilson could possibly be convicted of murder or even manslaughter had there been a trial. Murder requires intent, and I don't see how you can get there with Wilson. He was apparently a good cop who hadn't even discharged his gun before. Manslaughter requires reckless negligence and I don't think Wilson was negligent being as MB attacked him.

So I don't think this is a good example of police using excessive force because MB did too many things to warrant Wilson shooting him. The prosecutor should not have asked for a GJ, that was a punk political move that really made things worse. The GJ should have delivered an indictment because there are some questionable things that a jury should decide. So in this case it is more the PD f'n things up so they look guilty of a cover up. But just because MB may have asked to be shot doesn't mean there isn't a problem with PDs using excessive force on minorities. I think what stirs up the black community is the position the system has that no matter what the statistics say, we aren't going to acknowledge this issue or do anything about it.


That's the best I can do as far as my opinion. I didn't fact check this it's sort of off the top of my head.

I edited this because in the description I said MB stopped and turned to Wilson after taking several hits. This was wrong because only the one shot hit the back side of MB. The medical examiner said it's possible to hit the back of the arm from the front - which I totally don't buy.

Not a bad post Arch. And maybe you are correct. I think it's a bum deal all the way around, and it's a shame anyone died over it, but when you fight an officer for his gun, all bets are off that is is going to end without someone hurt or worse.

It's not the shooting I'm so ticked off about - what I'm ticked off about is the rioting (cover for looting) that resulted, like somehow there is ANY EXCUSE for tearing up other peoples' stuff.

People have got to get off this "shoot to wound" idea - I have to think you've had very little formal firearms training; if you did you'd know that's NOT the way you are taught to respond with deadly force.

Lycan: you need to go back and rethink and edit/remove your bigot comment as that is clearly in violation of the .org rules...

Ya know, there are lots of varying, even differing, opinions in this thread. I suspect that is due in large part to varying levels of information and/or understanding of that information. However, I also suspect that some these differences are explained by our own assumptions, which probably also vary when looking at the same data.

That said, I'd like to point out some unifying opinions among all of us:

1) It's tragic that someone had to die
2) Brown was no angel, but it's STILL tragic that he died
3) The officer had the right to defend himself

We can debate the details of what either party "intended", what they "deserved", whose fault it was, whether or not the witnesses are reliable, if the investigation was corrupt, etc. But I take heart in the fact that we all value life, seek justice and are invested enough in doing so to voice our beliefs and opinions on the matter.

We're all brothers in all this stuff, one way or another. The better we treat each other, the better it is for everyone.

Recognizing and remembering that goes a long way to creating constructive dialog and understanding.

Be well everyone!

Agree.

Lastly, I HATE it when 5 Pheasants jump up at your feet! :)
 
Maybe I should "read better" perhaps you should comprehend the fact that I was responding to a specific post. OBVIOUSLY I hadn't read any further, why should I have. Your standing on it is very clear, it wasn't like 2 post down your opinion would have changed you would have just done like you did now and make a slighted excuse as to what happened to justify it. Here's the thing, You can't justify wrong, wrong is wrong, PERIOD.

Was Mike Brown a scum ball, probably. Did he need to die, no. Wrong is wrong, no amount of you pulling the blinds over your own conscious will change the opinions of people who view this with a much broader mind scope. I, as a black man would have probably shot Mike Brown too, but I wouldn't have shot him to kill him as that officer obviously did. (can't be argues that it was excessive, if you think you need to shoot a person that many times at close range then you have never operated a fire arm)

I'm not so sure that "fighting officer for gun" qualifies as "slightest excuse", but go for it. "Never operated a Firearm"? You MIGHT want to go check out my profile. I've had a CCW since 1988, which is older than some members of this board...and 26 years as an Army Officer just MIGHT mean I've handled my fair share of firearms. Please tell me what firearms course you have attended that taught you to 'shoot to wound'?


You couldn't be a coupe but you'd be one hell of a reporter for Fox News. I don't need to answer the question you presented because I already broke it down. That is his job, point blank period. When you can no long perform your duties you need to grab a desk job or leave the force. When a doctor can no longer stand the sight of blood or make intelligent choices he steps down. When a wood worker can no longer properly fit a dove tail they retire. When a wheel can no longer hold air it gets replaced before an inevitable accident happens. This is fact, can not be argued by anyone. These cops are trained for what they do and are compensated well for it. You grow up your entire life knowing the dangers of being a cop so to then decided to go that route and have an excuse as if you didn't already know is bull.

My legs aren't pretty enought to work for Fox :) Not a lot of jobs out there that can result in your or someone else's death in an instant. Lots of keyboard quarterbacking going on here. But your statement has an element of truth to it - when they can't do it anymore, yes it's time to go home.

Did you read, buy chance, anywhere in my post that suggested I believed it was racial? Cause I can tell you right now I could care less about the fact the man was black or if he was green. Again, wrong is wrong, the way that situation was handled was excessive, period. These cops know they can get away with going over board so they do it. If there were heavier penalties, suspensions WITHOUT pay and more people serving time for the mistakes then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What white people beat and killed? Can you post some of this please? Most white people are killed by other white people just as most blacks are killed by blacks. The thing you fail to comprehend is that this isn't JUST about race. MOST people upset over this stuff are just tired of cops in general abusing their power.

I'm glad to see we argree on something - that this should NOT be about race. For me it's not - if this had been a white guy, I'd feel the SAME WAY. However, unfortunatly, it BECAME about race when the race-baiters hitched their cart to it and incited the rioting (which is what I'm really ticked off about).

And to dispell your comment about them having peaceful protest... Falls upon death ears, people like you who will just say "well the cop was stress so its ok this guy died..." This rioting however has worked in getting the attention they wanted and it will also work in getting the results they wanted. People will eventually demand the head of one of these cops or else they will take it for themselves. This is how history repeats itself.

Just as people, who are sick and tired of watching their stuff get torn up and looted, may eventually take matters into their own hands also - which I fear and do not want to see happen as innocents are going to get caught in the crossfire.

There have been MANY. Just because you are so far to the left that you can't agree with it that doesn't mean we need things to get worse. Everyone loses in this situation and I am sorry to inform you that if you think the cops retaliating due to "further mistrust" is an proper action then that goes to show how far gone your reasoning is. Cops need to take the high road and accept accountability. The more stuff like this happens in the gray area the more upset people will be and the worse things will get.

This is America, policing the people with military, many of which are from such poverty stricken areas wont end well for anyone. Use of force on our own people by the military wont be tolerated by anyone.

Agreed, it does not need to get worse. And the illegal rioting and looting needs to stop NOW, as it totally wipes out ANY MESSAGE OR SYMPATHY the protesters might be wanting to get across.

Next cop who fks up on the job and makes a mistake needs to serve time, be fired, suspended with out pay or all of the above. There is no other option at this point. Do the right thing, let people feel that the cops arent above the law and they will calm back down. Keep proving to them that cops are above the law and people will then fight back.

This isn't a black or white thing so you might want to stop making it into one with all of your post.

The ones who made it a black or white thing are race-baiters who hooked their cart to the wrong horse.
 
Not a bad post Arch. And maybe you are correct. I think it's a bum deal all the way around, and it's a shame anyone died over it, but when you fight an officer for his gun, all bets are off that is is going to end without someone hurt or worse.

It's not the shooting I'm so ticked off about - what I'm ticked off about is the rioting (cover for looting) that resulted, like somehow there is ANY EXCUSE for tearing up other peoples' stuff.

People have got to get off this "shoot to wound" idea - I have to think you've had very little formal firearms training; if you did you'd know that's NOT the way you are taught to respond with deadly force.

Lycan: you need to go back and rethink and edit/remove your bigot comment as that is clearly in violation of the .org rules...



Agree.

Lastly, I HATE it when 5 Pheasants jump up at your feet! :)

The looters hurt everyone. They destroy the businesses in the area where people shop and work and they make any constructive point difficult to make. On top of that they force the cops to use heavy force to stop it. Lose lose scenario.

EDIT: But when people get angry and frustrated these things happen. When something like the MB killing (right or wrong) gets things rolling it can be hard to stop it. I think for minorities they have to realize most cops are just trying to help. For others, they need to understand that one person killed using excessive force is too many.
 
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