Opinions on Ferguson MO

[RedBusarider]

I believe this is critical because the Police think they are after a dangerous suspect and MB is wondering why the Cops were hassling him.

MB and friend were walking down the middle of the street. The cop asked them what was wrong with the sidewalk.
If they had never been in the street The cop may have never confronted them.:rulez8bn:

So If he was really wondering why the Cops were hassling him - then I guess he didn't know what sidewalks were for, which is common sense for most people.

The way I see it, MOST people that had just committed a crime would try to draw as little attention to themselves as possible. I guess MB wasn't most people.

 

[fallenarch]

MB and friend were walking down the middle of the street. The cop asked them what was wrong with the sidewalk.
If they had never been in the street The cop may have never confronted them.:rulez8bn:

So If he was really wondering why the Cops were hassling him - then I guess he didn't know what sidewalks were for, which is common sense for most people.

The way I see it, MOST people that had just committed a crime would try to draw as little attention to themselves as possible. I guess MB wasn't most people.

The white people in my neighborhood seem to think they can walk or ride bikes 2 abreast blocking our roads every day. Just saying......

 

[fallenarch]

lol so now he never went for the cops gun? so then why was his DNA all over the inside of the cops car then? oh I see Brown was reaching in to give the cop a kiss right and the cop got upset so he fired his weapon at him.

if a cop draws his weapon and u reach for it ur getting shot. it would be extremely difficult to disarm a cop who still had his weapon holstered but many have tried. cop draws his weapon cause he is now face to face with someone who just committed a robbery AND this suspect now reaches inside his car.

what exactly do u think the suspect is doing then if not reaching for the officers weapon? he was gonna give him a HIGH 5? explain to me in ur opinion what the suspect wud be doing in the car? and the fact that he assaulted him in the car tells you what?

he was not assaulted outside of his police car so explain to me why the cop was assaulted inside his police car while the cop had his gun drawn on him? u already stated no way he was going for his gun so then what was he doing inside the cop car KNOWING his just committed a robbery and the police are now looking for him. explain...

yea ill tell u wats wrong with the justice system is ppl watch too much TV about an incident and then draw a conclusion as to who is right and who is wrong before they have any of the facts. or ppl like you are given the facts yet still have it in their mind that the cop was wrong so no matter how much evidence to the contrary still isn't enough to convince you.

oh so now because ppl are rioting and burning the city down that means there is something wrong with the justice system. the justice system worked perfect fine here. so as long as ppl riot, loot and burn buildings down that must mean there is something wrong with the justice system and therefore justified!

the problem is in the black communities NOT the justice system. black communities make up 98% of the crime in black communities so is it the justice system thats out of whack or is it the fact that black ppl destroy their own communities and are now looking for someone else to blame?

the blame game.... its been going on in black communities for decades now. instead of blaming the white man or the justice system or holding rallies about how unfairly black criminals are treated maybe they shud hold some rallies on why don’t we see our black leaders going to the communities where young black men are slaughtering each other? where are those protests? oh, its not a white man killing them so no need for change right? talk about racism..... SMH

Either you can't read or you don't want to. I think Lycan6 is right about one thing you guys are definitely close minded.

 

[captain]

I've said it before and I will say it again.. Those folks that are so boldy speaking out against this shooting and can do better need to drop their current jobs and go sign up for a pay cut, a gun, a badge and well never mind the gun cause you can get pepper spray or a baton... (Sarcasm)

I would never pretend to tell you how to design a building or minimize your work because you are well trained, educated and frankly it's hard. But I love it when people reduce any other job to only the experiences they have ever had.

Arch, good on ya for watching cops but that isn't going to do it, go out and do some ride along's with an officer or deputy in your area or if you really want to make a difference then volunteer your time and be a reserve! Change things from the inside out, I can tell you that by black and white LEO friends just roll their eyes when they read threads like this...

You guys are trying to use logic, wisdom, experiences that you have had in these situations and that is just flawed... Why would a person run at a cop? Who knows, but it happens all the time, who would do drugs or hit their wife and kids? People know it's wrong but they do it anyway, at some point your going to have to either A) Trust your friends and others that are out there on the "Other side" or B) Get involved and make the change and I'm not talking about standing on a street corner and raising your hands or laying on the highway no *****ing or second guessing, if the white guy is doing it wrong then I challenge you to show us how to do it right, get in front of us and you lead by example!

Cap

 

[fallenarch]

I've said it before and I will say it again.. Those folks that are so boldy speaking out against this shooting and can do better need to drop their current jobs and go sign up for a pay cut, a gun, a badge and well never mind the gun cause you can get pepper spray or a baton... (Sarcasm)

I would never pretend to tell you how to design a building or minimize your work because you are well trained, educated and frankly it's hard. But I love it when people reduce any other job to only the experiences they have ever had.

Arch, good on ya for watching cops but that isn't going to do it, go out and do some ride along's with an officer or deputy in your area or if you really want to make a difference then volunteer your time and be a reserve! Change things from the inside out, I can tell you that by black and white LEO friends just roll their eyes when they read threads like this...

You guys are trying to use logic, wisdom, experiences that you have had in these situations and that is just flawed... Why would a person run at a cop? Who knows, but it happens all the time, who would do drugs or hit their wife and kids? People know it's wrong but they do it anyway, at some point your going to have to either A) Trust your friends and others that are out there on the "Other side" or B) Get involved and make the change and I'm not talking about standing on a street corner and raising your hands or laying on the highway no *****ing or second guessing, if the white guy is doing it wrong then I challenge you to show us how to do it right, get in front of us and you lead by example!

Cap

If I design buildings with flaws people say something, and when they do I fix the problem. You don't have to have a degree and a license to know water shouldn't drip down the wall. Whether Mike Brown was wrong or not, the justice system is not fair and a disproportionate amount of unarmed minorities are being shot by cops. "Oops, I'd rather waste a n-word than risk not going home" is not a good enough excuse. Cops are not executioners. It's their job to deliver a suspect to the judicial system for a fair trial even if that means taking a bit of a risk before blasting away. Before you say that's not true, remember they are apparently taking that extra second with white suspects.

You blue shield guys who will defend the police no matter what are why people have to riot. This crap has been going on for years and every time it happens people like you just make up a bunch of B.S. excuses as to why the suspect deserved to get blown full of lead for looking like they had a gun. Man am I over you people.

 

[skydivr]

I'm not a 'blue shield' guy, but I'll tell you this - Who do you figure I'd put my faith and trust in, the 'blue shield' guy or the 'cigerello-stealing, police-fighting, dope-smoking, gang-banger wanna-be'? And don't dare say "stereotyping much?" because that's what HE DID/WAS.

Sure police make mistakes - they are as human as everyone else. Yet they carry the responsibility, and are entrusted to, life-and-death on the spot decisions that most of us COULD NOT HANDLE, against the BEST AND WORST our society has. Yet, even THEY want those who cannot control themselves out of the system. So, excuse me for thinking that sitting in the comfort of your armchair by the warm fire keyboard-quarterbacking their life-death decisions has equal footing to those who do it and have done it on a daily basis....

 

[GNBRETT]

If I design buildings with flaws people say something, and when they do I fix the problem. You don't have to have a degree and a license to know water shouldn't drip down the wall. Whether Mike Brown was wrong or not, the justice system is not fair and a disproportionate amount of unarmed minorities are being shot by cops.

well maybe when minorities stop committing nearly ALL the violent crimes in this country the police will look at them differently. and wen it LOOKS like you have a gun there is a good chance you do have a gun!

is it really a disproportionate number when proportionally almost every time a call goes out over the radio that someone is shot, robbed or car jacked its a black male? its the law of averages. the more violent crime a particular race commits the more likely they will be a suspect in violent crimes and the more likely the police are going to be quick to defend themselves.

sometimes they get it wrong. they are human and do make mistakes. its easy for ppl like u to sit back and judge or pick apart what the cop shud have done at that very second that he had to make a choice whether or not he was gonna go home that night OR his friends were gonna be carrying him to the grave.

wen blacks stop shooting and robbing people I'm sure the police will target them less and as a result there will be less unarmed black men being shot in this country. did you think of that? and you only see the guy that gets shot. you don't see or hear about the thousands of incidents every year where the police cud hav and shud hav discharged their weapon at a minority yet didn't.

I'm not a 'blue shield' guy, but I'll tell you this - Who do you figure I'd put my faith and trust in, the 'blue shield' guy or the 'cigerello-stealing, police-fighting, dope-smoking, gang-banger wanna-be'? And don't dare say "stereotyping much?" because that's what HE DID/WAS.

lol that pretty much sums that up in a nut shell.....

but no he was just a gentle giant that was kind enough to rob a convenience store and then assault a police officer. he really was a good kid.... just ask his step father who incited thousands to burn their city down. with parents like that its no wonder this thug was on his way to prison if not shot and killed that day.

 

[captain]

even if that means taking a bit of a risk

Well aren't you brave! taking risk with other people's lives...

You are correct that you make mistakes and go back and fix them, you also have months and years to design the building, the officer has seconds to react and guess what he can't send a contractor back out to move a water line or cut a hole in a wall.

 

[ZRXMAX]

People create their own reality. If you are up to no good and the police show up its best not to charge them... you might get shot. If you have ever had the opportunity to listen in on people whom think they can do things to other people that show disrespect in all of its various forms, then you know why their odds of maintaining their freedom aren't good when the police show up.

 

[Lycan6]

For all the experts that say he was never shot at while running away, please view column 8. These are the actual witness accounts.

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

I'd like to ask a question...what do you guys hope to accomplish badgering each other? 390 posts in and no one is saying anything that wasn't said in the first 20.

Arch, you said "man I'm over you people"....all evidence to the contrary.

Give it a rest guys.

2BB

 

[fallenarch]

Well aren't you brave! taking risk with other people's lives...

You are correct that you make mistakes and go back and fix them, you also have months and years to design the building, the officer has seconds to react and guess what he can't send a contractor back out to move a water line or cut a hole in a wall.

I didn't apply to the academy and take an oath. If you people represent the mindset of police then we really do have a big problem. If a majority black police department was blasting away at white suspects you would feel differently about this. If you had to worry about getting stopped by some redneck cop in the middle of nowhere on a ride and have him blast away because my gloves look like a weapon you would think differently. Cops are killing black people at disproportionate numbers compared to white people. Blacks receive harsher sentences than whites for the same offenses. Those are facts. You're saying so what, we're doing the best we can. I say if you carry the badge, if you are to be given the powers of a law enforcement officer, then you must do better. There are ways to train officers on these issues, just most departments don't bother to do it. I know the FBI and military practice threat identification and how to identify aggressors in difficult situations. For you guys to say we are not even going to stop and review the problem and see if there is a way to reduce these mistakes says you shouldn't have the badge in the first place.

BTW: we often are put in a position where many lives are at stake and we have to make decisions quickly. Our decisions are rarely instant but they are extremely complicated. We never have a year to design anything anymore. Our headquarters building is 500,000 square feet and we designed it in 3 months. They started construction on it 1 month into the design. You don't whine about this being tough, you do what's necessary to protect the public interest and do your job. Also we design the buildings our troops work in that must resist terror attacks. We design the training facilities and gun ranges police and military train in too.

 

[skydivr]

Lycan, I will retract my previous statement, now that you have provided some proof to your claim that some witnesses claim that the officer shot at him while running away. What that matrix does not state, however, is this from what PBS put together themselves from press reports (WHOSE witness interviews?), official grand jury documents, etc? Regardless, you do have some info to back up your claim.

Because, there were a lot of people spouting off what they saw, who later, under oath, retracted and said they weren't there and made it up 'for fun'...

Arch: I don't think anybody's said that the police can't always use additional training. And I have a pretty good feeling that every police department in the nation has had some official discussion regarding what's happened. No officer I know is eager to go to work in the morning to shoot and kill ANYBODY of ANY color. I would really think the word to the wise would be DON'T FIGHT THE POLICE.

 

[Poppy]

Because, there were a lot of people spouting off what they saw, who later, under oath, retracted and said they weren't there and made it up 'for fun'...

Unfortunately, skydivr raises a valid point, eyewitness testimony is the worst example of evidence. So many people can see the same thing and report different results. Forensic and video is the best way to go. Body cameras should be considered for all patrol officers.

Lycan6, thanks for posting the chart.

 

[Lycan6]

Lycan, I will retract my previous statement, now that you have provided some proof to your claim that some witnesses claim that the officer shot at him while running away. What that matrix does not state, however, is this from what PBS put together themselves from press reports (WHOSE witness interviews?), official grand jury documents, etc? Regardless, you do have some info to back up your claim. Because, there were a lot of people spouting off what they saw, who later, under oath, retracted and said they weren't there and made it up 'for fun'... Arch: I don't think anybody's said that the police can't always use additional training. And I have a pretty good feeling that every police department in the nation has had some official discussion regarding what's happened. No officer I know is eager to go to work in the morning to shoot and kill ANYBODY of ANY color. I would really think the word to the wise would be DON'T FIGHT THE POLICE.

These are the actual witnesses responses and if the look at the chart it also has the first responses and if they were questioned a second time what their responses were. Some witnesses did have different versions from one interview to the next but that one question for the most part the responses were consistent.

 

[captain]

I didn't apply to the academy and take an oath. If you people represent the mindset of police then we really do have a big problem. If a majority black police department was blasting away at white suspects you would feel differently about this. If you had to worry about getting stopped by some redneck cop in the middle of nowhere on a ride and have him blast away because my gloves look like a weapon you would think differently. Cops are killing black people at disproportionate numbers compared to white people. Blacks receive harsher sentences than whites for the same offenses. Those are facts. You're saying so what, we're doing the best we can. I say if you carry the badge, if you are to be given the powers of a law enforcement officer, then you must do better. There are ways to train officers on these issues, just most departments don't bother to do it. I know the FBI and military practice threat identification and how to identify aggressors in difficult situations. For you guys to say we are not even going to stop and review the problem and see if there is a way to reduce these mistakes says you shouldn't have the badge in the first place.

BTW: we often are put in a position where many lives are at stake and we have to make decisions quickly. Our decisions are rarely instant but they are extremely complicated. We never have a year to design anything anymore. Our headquarters building is 500,000 square feet and we designed it in 3 months. They started construction on it 1 month into the design. You don't whine about this being tough, you do what's necessary to protect the public interest and do your job. Also we design the buildings our troops work in that must resist terror attacks. We design the training facilities and gun ranges police and military train in too.

You think I'm a redneck cop and I think your trying to protect and justify the actions of a thug.. Frankly I don't care what color they are but the facts are clear and you can't deny it Arch the black community has a problem with violence, that sir is why they are dying at a higher rate..

 

[Lycan6]

Unfortunately, skydivr raises a valid point, eyewitness testimony is the worst example of evidence. So many people can see the same thing and report different results. Forensic and video is the best way to go. Body cameras should be considered for all patrol officers. Lycan6, thanks for posting the chart.

But the eyewitness testimony is what the grand jury included in their decision process so it is very relevant.

I don't think body cameras are worth the money. We can look at what happened in NY a to realized that it's not about seeing or hearing what happened it's all about the laws as written.

 

[Poppy]

What are you going to do to try and get laws changed?

Edit....I went back and reviewed the chart as well as i can on my phone. The point I was making earlier regarding eyewitnesses is evident in the last column....number of shots fired.

 

[RedBusarider]

eyewitness testimony is the worst example of evidence. So many people can see the same thing and report different results. Forensic and video is the best way to go. Body cameras should be considered for all patrol officers.

So true - I'm sure there are people sitting in Prison because an eyewitness Id'd them and they were wrong.
Repetition is how you enforce memory. Seeing something once for a few seconds is very unreliable and many times flat out wrong.

How many of you dream? After waking, are not most of the details gone after a few minutes? Unless you were to write them down within
a minute, I'll bet most of them would be gone. And I doubt that ANYONE wrote down what happened at that shooting and were relying on what
happened from memory. Days after it happened too. Memory fades with time.

I've seen a documentary on this subject. They set up a counter and a client walked up and the man at the counter said Oh let me get that form and
then ducked down and then another man popped up with the form and over 80% did not realize that the man switched. They did many variations of
that and every time the overwhelming majority failed to notice. There are other studies that have been done too, but I can't remember them.

How many of you walk into another room and can't remember why you came to the other room? Anyone? Because that is fairly normal.
No, it doesn't mean your on the road to dementia.

If someone tells you there phone # and there is nothing to write on or with and no electronic devices, the average person would need to
hear it or say it a number of times before it might stick. Point being that one time probably isn't going to do it. So how can seeing something once,
that happens really fast, stick?

In many Sports, how often do they do replays? And the second or third time, do you see something different then you did the first time?
At least more clearly then you did the first time? But in real life we don't get instant replays, do we? When there is no video it's someones word
against someone else's word and that's where the problems start.

Of course with us knowing that memory is not usually 100% in anyone, what choice do judges and jury's have but to use what has been given to them?

Now this is a little off base but there is another example of right and wrong.
I remember Pheasant hunting one time and a group of us had just pulled up to a field and started getting our gear out.
As we were just about ready to step into the field I said Stop there is a pheasant right there. My friend said where? I said right there in some grass
along the edge of the field. I said it's right there pointing to it. He again said where? Right there? He said there isn't any pheasant there. I said yes there is.
I said OK get ready to shoot. I walked towards it and it flew up and away.
Point here is because I'm colorblind I could see the bird and no one else could. So by most standards everyone else would say I was lying. But the truth that
I saw through my eyes was not visible to them.

Back to the case, this just proves that not everyone sees the exact same thing even when they are looking at the exact same thing.
Add speed and a short window of time and people are going to vary a lot on what actually happened, very few being accurate.

They say that in NYC there is basically no place on the street that you can go without being video taped. So we are the generation that is
caught in the beginnings of making the truth be known to all via video in every major city in the USA. Someday I believe that crime will be reduced
as there will be almost no way to commit a crime without being caught. I mean lets face it - don't most criminals think that they will somehow get away
with the crime they are planning to commit? Don't Bank robbers have big dreams of what they are going to do with all the money they get from a heist?

Protect yourself - buy a video camera and use it.

 

[captain]

But the eyewitness testimony is what the grand jury included in their decision process so it is very relevant.

I don't think body cameras are worth the money. We can look at what happened in NY a to realized that it's not about seeing or hearing what happened it's all about the laws as written.

What makes it so relevant is how er-relevant it was... Perception can vary and witness testimony is a terrible thing to depend on anyway, then throw in some liars, some attention seekers, some haters and the testimony becomes so skewed with garbage that it just proves out that none of it is trustworthy.