Opinions on Ferguson MO

Now you are being silly. That comment comes across kinda trollish.
Call it what you want Poppy but those are facts the facts that can't be disputed. The life threat was over when he began to run but yet he was still shot at while he was running. Tell me what sense does this make.

I'm fighting with a cop.
Cop shoots me.
I take off running because I'm hit.
Then I stop. Turn around and head back towards the person that just shot me.
This was a police officer that made a decision to shoot rather than use the other options available to him. It's not like he was a little fella either. Officer Wilson was 6-4 and 210 lbs. if you can't handle yourself with a person that was running away from you with at least one bullet wound maybe you shouldn't be a police officer.
 
Call it what you want Poppy but those are facts the facts that can't be disputed. The life threat was over when he began to run but yet he was still shot at while he was running. Tell me what sense does this make.

I'm fighting with a cop.
.

You realize that everything after the above bolded doesn't matter. The police aren't here to pay fair, give you a chance to 'even the odds', 'live to fight another day' etc. Once that happened, that officer was SWORN and DUTY BOUND to arrest you, with whatever force is necessary; If a man is crazy enough to fight an officer, what havoc will he wreak on the civilian population the officer was sworn to protect?

You keep stating the 'fact' that the officer shot at him while running away. Yet there is zero evidence that happened? What is your source? Even if he did, if in the process of making a felony arrest, I suspect he's authorized to do so, with the force of law anyway. What are the other weapons you seem to believe the officer had on his person, when the man came back at him? He had already proven, by trying to take his gun, that he was willing to shoot the officer besides fight him. That is assault with the intent to murder. The officer is fully within his prevue to use deadly force at this point.

And, again....All he had to do was COMPLY.
 
Call it what you want Poppy but those are facts the facts that can't be disputed. The life threat was over when he began to run but yet he was still shot at while he was running. Tell me what sense does this make.

I'm fighting with a cop.
Cop shoots me.
I take off running because I'm hit.
Then I stop. Turn around and head back towards the person that just shot me.
This was a police officer that made a decision to shoot rather than use the other options available to him. It's not like he was a little fella either. Officer Wilson was 6-4 and 210 lbs. if you can't handle yourself with a person that was running away from you with at least one bullet wound maybe you shouldn't be a police officer.

You lose some credibility by continuing to proclaim something happened that has been proven to have not occurred, based on testimony and forensic evidence. What is your credible source? I'm willing to check out your citation.
 
You realize that everything after the above bolded doesn't matter. The police aren't here to pay fair, give you a chance to 'even the odds', 'live to fight another day' .
That is my issue. It should matter if the person is running away. He had choices that he could have made. The use of deadly force should be a last resort and I just don't believe this officer used any other options available to him such as pepper spray or his baton. I will try to find the info about him shooting while running away. It happened because the prosecutor produced an outdated law that had been modified that indicated he was able to shoot a fleeing suspect. That would not have been mentioned had he not fired his gun while he was running away.
 
That is my issue. It should matter if the person is running away. He had choices that he could have made. The use of deadly force should be a last resort and I just don't believe this officer used any other options available to him such as pepper spray or his baton. I will try to find the info about him shooting while running away. It happened because the prosecutor produced an outdated law that had been modified that indicated he was able to shoot a fleeing suspect. That would not have been mentioned had he not fired his gun while he was running away.

Come off it about him running away. He was only shot in the front of his body. Even if he had been running away, the shooting was still justified under the law.

Don't like the law? Quit complaining on a motorcycle forum and go work to get it changed.
 
have u followed anything thats gone on with this case? he was shot while he was running away? really? apparently you didn't see the autopsy report cause all wounds came from the front and NONE from the rear so who exactly got shot while running away cause it wasn't this soon to be felon!

the only thing here being disputed is YOUR version of the facts. what options where available to him exactly?

the guy reaches in his car assaults the cop and goes for his weapon at 300 lbs! so tell me what options did he have? waiting for ur response.....

Call it what you want Poppy but those are facts the facts that can't be disputed. The life threat was over when he began to run but yet he was still shot at while he was running. Tell me what sense does this make.

I'm fighting with a cop.
Cop shoots me.
I take off running because I'm hit.
Then I stop. Turn around and head back towards the person that just shot me.
This was a police officer that made a decision to shoot rather than use the other options available to him. It's not like he was a little fella either. Officer Wilson was 6-4 and 210 lbs. if you can't handle yourself with a person that was running away from you with at least one bullet wound maybe you shouldn't be a police officer.
 
Come off it about him running away. He was only shot in the front of his body. Even if he had been running away, the shooting was still justified under the law. Don't like the law? Quit complaining on a motorcycle forum and go work to get it changed.
It actually was against the law that's why I'm talking about it. The same could be said about every other non bike related topic but your solution to this is to stop complaining about it on the forum? Good answer.
 
have u followed anything thats gone on with this case? he was shot while he was running away? really? apparently you didn't see the autopsy report cause all wounds came from the front and NONE from the rear so who exactly got shot while running away cause it wasn't this soon to be felon! the only thing here being disputed is YOUR version of the facts. what options where available to him exactly? the guy reaches in his car assaults the cop and goes for his weapon at 300 lbs! so tell me what options did he have? waiting for ur response.....
For the last time I DID NOT SAY HE WAS SHOT IN THE BACK. I SAID THE OFFICER SHOT AT HIM WHILE HE WAS RUNNING AWAY. Big difference.
 
I just love how everyone keeps omitting the fact that he was running away. You would think he stood there beating this poor guy for thirty minutes.
 
For the last time I DID NOT SAY HE WAS SHOT IN THE BACK. I SAID THE OFFICER SHOT AT HIM WHILE HE WAS RUNNING AWAY. Big difference.
so he ran away backwards? if he was shot in the front how is it he was running away? ur making no sense whatsoever! the cop shot him in the vehicle. exited the vehicle in attempt to arrest him and was ordered onto the ground for which he refused! the suspect then charged towards the officer and was shot again.

the suspect has already demonstrated that he could care less that he was a cop when he went for his weapon the first time inside the vehicle. so what exactly do u think the suspect is gonna do if he gets his hands on that cop? or are you under the assumption he is gonna say "hey I'm really sorry" or is it more likely he gonna try to assault the officer and make another attempt to gain his weapon?

and remember its not what YOU or I think is going to happen. its what the OFFICER involved is thinking and common sense would tell you if he has gone for ur weapon once then he will go for it again. or shud he think he was just joking when he tried taking the cops gun.

and u keep taking about Mace or night stick. when a suspect goes for an officers weapon the officer does not resort to less force then the suspect is attempting to use. uve been watching too many TV shows. its not an eye for an eye and its not supposed to be a fair fight. if you try to take a cops gun that is a DEADLY FORCE situation. what is it ur confused about actually?

so a guy goes for my gun and instead of getting to my gun before he does I reach for my spray? really?
 
hit cop...attempt to grab gun as powder burns on hand is in evidence and gun FAILED to fire 3 times as slide was partially moved so it was OUT OF BATTERY (ie his hand was on gun and moving the slide)......says A LOT MORE about who and what you are trying to do...so the "running away" takes into account WHO might be next on this persons MINDSET..... think about that to rationalize why the attempt to persue and apprehend was SO IMPORTANT than your misguided views of "FAIRNESS"....
 
hit cop...attempt to grab gun as powder burns on hand is in evidence and gun FAILED to fire 3 times as slide was partially moved so it was OUT OF BATTERY (ie his hand was on gun and moving the slide)......says A LOT MORE about who and what you are trying to do...so the "running away" takes into account WHO might be next on this persons MINDSET..... think about that to rationalize why the attempt to persue and apprehend was SO IMPORTANT than your misguided views of "FAIRNESS"....
So now it's about what he may have done while his 300 lb. gun GS suspect is running. Yep that was important to make sure he didn't get away.
 
I read and reread the evidence and there are some interesting issues (this is based mostly on the Washington Post analysis of the evidence and GJ testimony:


  1. Wilson says MB reached into the car trying to get his gun and a struggle over the gun ensued. But there is no blood or DNA of MB's inside the car. MB's blood was on the door, but on the outside of it. It is much more likely that Wilson drew his gun on MB and MB grabbed it because he thought Wilson was going to shoot him. This in and of itself is a technicality, as it was reasonable for Wilson to pull his gun to maintain control of this situation.
  2. MB’s body had traces of THC. If the world was high on Mary-Jane it would be a very peaceful place full of happy people with the munchies.
  3. The store owner did not report the shop lifting by MB, another customer did. They reported a “strong-arm robbery”. In fact MB had taken a $15 pack of cigarillos to smoke some weed without a weapon or physically assaulting anyone. So the police were operating under an inflated assumption of how dangerous MB was. I believe this is critical because the Police think they are after a dangerous suspect and MB is wondering why the Cops were hassling him.
  4. When the gun went off, MB and friend start running. Wilson gets out of the car and fires on MB, apparently missing him several times. One shot struck MB from behind in the arm. The examiner states that because of the way the arm moves it could be hit in the back while the suspect is coming toward the officer. The more likely scenario is MB was running away from the officer when he was hit in the arm.
  5. Now things get a bit confused and the evidence does not prove either scenario. Wilson says he ran after MB and only fired the 6 shots when MB turned and charged him. The examiner says the evidence supports Wilson’s story because the spent shells lay on the ground spaced as Wilson retreated. But this evidence also supports the scenario where Wilson gets out of the car and fires several shots, one hitting MB in the back of the arm. Then Wilson runs after MB still firing. MB then turns and gestures surrender but Wilson continues to move forward firing at MB and killing him.
  6. The examiner simply says that the physical evidence is consistent with Wilson’s story – not that it proves it to be true. MB’s body lay on the ground for hours while the scene was investigated, plenty of time to coordinate a story. This might seem far- fetched but clearly Wilson is thoroughly coached in his interview on TV and was probably well coached for the GJ. But the evidence does not prove conclusively that Wilson’s story is true – which is why there should have been a trial. However even with the trial, I don’t see Wilson being convicted because that same evidence is not conclusive.
  7. The first thing I asked is what Wilson’s record was; had he had a confrontation with MB previously? How did this situation escalate so quickly? But Wilson had a clean record and had never fired his weapon before. So I believe he felt he had reason and was not a redneck out to show those n-words a thing or two. Seems he was a decent cop who had a very bad day.

When I look at all of this, it looks like an unfortunate misunderstanding. Wilson thought he was chasing a dangerous suspect who had just committed an armed robbery. MB thought the cops were hassling him and had the typical minority mindset that cops are bad people. Those things made both Wilson and MB over-react on that street in Ferguson. The question we can never answer is whether those last 6 shots that killed MB were fired because Wilson was pissed (murder) or in fear for his life (doing his job). So we can't answer this mystery and how you feel about it probably rests on your prejudices whether you are white or black. But this does not mean that there is not a disparity in the justice system against brown and poor people - this is fact.

Here are some good references, read the comments also:
“In three minutes, two lives collide and a nation divides over Ferguson shooting”: In three minutes, two lives collide and a nation divides over Ferguson shooting - The Washington Post

“The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer [updated with DNA evidence”:
The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer [updated with DNA evidence] - The Washington Post
 
ummmm get ur facts straight...... ur read a finding from the autopsy and put ur own spin on it and then call it fact? cmon...

FBI forensic tests showed the gun was fired twice INSIDE the car. one bullet hitting brown's arm and the second one missed
in addition to wilson's uniform and gun, forensic tests found the teen's blood on the INTERIOR door panel of his car.

NO BLOOD OR DNA of MB inside car? where do u get this stuff from? again.... right from ur own article..... "With regard to the thumb wound suffered by Brown, he concluded that the thumb was just a “few inches” away from Wilson’s gun. He praised the work of a technician who had found in Wilson’s car skin tissue that appeared to be from Michael Brown’s thumb"

right from ur own article....."This physical evidence is thus quite consistent with Wilson’s testimony that Brown was trying to get hold of Wilson’s weapon, creating a fear in Wilson that he was going to get shot"

and again....."Here again, this testimony was consistent with Wilson’s testimony. It aligned with Brown charging forward toward Wilson, coming to a halt only when Wilson was able to get a FATAL shot to the head. Significantly, the ME’s testimony did not align with those who claimed (before the grand jury or in the media) the Wilson had gunned Brown down in the back."

so now a robbery suspect is only dangerous wen they actually have a weapon so the police were mislead into thinking he wasn't dangerous? really? plenty of armed robberies take place without the suspect displaying a gun. just because he didn't display one didnt mean he didn't have one.

plenty of robberies take place by suspects without pulling out a weapon because they simply feel they can over power someone and no need to pull out their weapon. ya know like wen a 300 lb man STRONG ARM's a 160 lb man and commits a ROBBERY! its comical how ppl downplay a strong arm robbery as tho its kids play.

make no mistake he was going to PRISON for what he did plain and simple but he's not a dangerous guy at all. I mean his actions that day clear display that of a gentle giant..... uve been drinking way too much of the kook-aid my friend.

so if a guy walks into a bank and says "give me all ur money" yet displays no weapon that means he's not dangerous?

I read and reread the evidence and there are some interesting issues (this is based mostly on the Washington Post analysis of the evidence and GJ testimony:


  1. Wilson says MB reached into the car trying to get his gun and a struggle over the gun ensued. But there is no blood or DNA of MB's inside the car. MB's blood was on the door, but on the outside of it. It is much more likely that Wilson drew his gun on MB and MB grabbed it because he thought Wilson was going to shoot him. This in and of itself is a technicality, as it was reasonable for Wilson to pull his gun to maintain control of this situation.
  2. MB’s body had traces of THC. If the world was high on Mary-Jane it would be a very peaceful place full of happy people with the munchies.
  3. The store owner did not report the shop lifting by MB, another customer did. They reported a “strong-arm robbery”. In fact MB had taken a $15 pack of cigarillos to smoke some weed without a weapon or physically assaulting anyone. So the police were operating under an inflated assumption of how dangerous MB was. I believe this is critical because the Police think they are after a dangerous suspect and MB is wondering why the Cops were hassling him.
  4. When the gun went off, MB and friend start running. Wilson gets out of the car and fires on MB, apparently missing him several times. One shot struck MB from behind in the arm. The examiner states that because of the way the arm moves it could be hit in the back while the suspect is coming toward the officer. The more likely scenario is MB was running away from the officer when he was hit in the arm.
  5. Now things get a bit confused and the evidence does not prove either scenario. Wilson says he ran after MB and only fired the 6 shots when MB turned and charged him. The examiner says the evidence supports Wilson’s story because the spent shells lay on the ground spaced as Wilson retreated. But this evidence also supports the scenario where Wilson gets out of the car and fires several shots, one hitting MB in the back of the arm. Then Wilson runs after MB still firing. MB then turns and gestures surrender but Wilson continues to move forward firing at MB and killing him.
  6. The examiner simply says that the physical evidence is consistent with Wilson’s story – not that it proves it to be true. MB’s body lay on the ground for hours while the scene was investigated, plenty of time to coordinate a story. This might seem far- fetched but clearly Wilson is thoroughly coached in his interview on TV and was probably well coached for the GJ. But the evidence does not prove conclusively that Wilson’s story is true – which is why there should have been a trial. However even with the trial, I don’t see Wilson being convicted because that same evidence is not conclusive.
  7. The first thing I asked is what Wilson’s record was; had he had a confrontation with MB previously? How did this situation escalate so quickly? But Wilson had a clean record and had never fired his weapon before. So I believe he felt he had reason and was not a redneck out to show those n-words a thing or two. Seems he was a decent cop who had a very bad day.

When I look at all of this, it looks like an unfortunate misunderstanding. Wilson thought he was chasing a dangerous suspect who had just committed an armed robbery. MB thought the cops were hassling him and had the typical minority mindset that cops are bad people. Those things made both Wilson and MB over-react on that street in Ferguson. The question we can never answer is whether those last 6 shots that killed MB were fired because Wilson was pissed (murder) or in fear for his life (doing his job). So we can't answer this mystery and how you feel about it probably rests on your prejudices whether you are white or black. But this does not mean that there is not a disparity in the justice system against brown and poor people - this is fact.

Here are some good references, read the comments also:
“In three minutes, two lives collide and a nation divides over Ferguson shooting”: In three minutes, two lives collide and a nation divides over Ferguson shooting - The Washington Post

“The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer [updated with DNA evidence”:
The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer [updated with DNA evidence] - The Washington Post
 
Evidence consistent with Wilson's story is different from evidence that proves it. So a kid should be shot dead for stealing a $15 pack of cigarillos? I think my assessment was pretty fair. No way you can convince me MB attacks and goes for his gun, that just doesn't make any sense. But on the other hand the officer had a good reason to draw his weapon given the information he had at the time. And clearly MB fought with Wilson and hit him in the face - dumb. If you guys don't want to admit this is not as clear cut as many want to make it fine. Buts that's why people are rioting - because the people in power refuse to even admit that maybe something is wrong with the justice system.
 
I just love how everyone keeps omitting the fact that he was running away. You would think he stood there beating this poor guy for thirty minutes.

You have now been asked over 5 times to cite where you get this 'fact' from. Reported in the news? Tweeted on the internet? Under oath to the grand jury? From mother and 'stepfather'? video?

We are all waiting....

Edit: If it's in the officer's testimony, I will believe it.

Arch: Not only did he have traces in his system, he had an ounce or so in his pocket...as reported from the fed's autopsy report (which, interestingly, mirrors the others already released).
 
It actually was against the law that's why I'm talking about it. The same could be said about every other non bike related topic but your solution to this is to stop complaining about it on the forum? Good answer.

Clearly, you have no understanding of the actual laws that were relevant to this case. Please bring some legal citations to show us how the shooting was illegal. Hint: There aren't any.

You also didn't seem to understand what I wrote about complaining on a motorcycle forum. No political or legislative action related to the use of deadly force will ever come from this conversation on a motorcycle forum. You're welcome to talk about it here, but if you really believed and cared about the things you're saying, you'd try to find better avenues to make change happen. I'm pretty sure nobody in this thread is a member of the Missouri state legislature.
 
Clearly, you have no understanding of the actual laws that were relevant to this case. Please bring some legal citations to show us how the shooting was illegal. Hint: There aren't any. You also didn't seem to understand what I wrote about complaining on a motorcycle forum. No political or legislative action related to the use of deadly force will ever come from this conversation on a motorcycle forum. You're welcome to talk about it here, but if you really believed and cared about the things you're saying, you'd try to find better avenues to make change happen. I'm pretty sure nobody in this thread is a member of the Missouri state legislature.
Clearly you are the expert so I will bow down and now out. To your pony nothing will come of this topic about it with a group of closed minded individuals that cannot or refuse to look at things from the point of view of others. So good day to you sir.
 
Evidence consistent with Wilson's story is different from evidence that proves it. So a kid should be shot dead for stealing a $15 pack of cigarillos?
lol so now he never went for the cops gun? so then why was his DNA all over the inside of the cops car then? oh I see Brown was reaching in to give the cop a kiss right and the cop got upset so he fired his weapon at him.

if a cop draws his weapon and u reach for it ur getting shot. it would be extremely difficult to disarm a cop who still had his weapon holstered but many have tried. cop draws his weapon cause he is now face to face with someone who just committed a robbery AND this suspect now reaches inside his car.

what exactly do u think the suspect is doing then if not reaching for the officers weapon? he was gonna give him a HIGH 5? explain to me in ur opinion what the suspect wud be doing in the car? and the fact that he assaulted him in the car tells you what?

he was not assaulted outside of his police car so explain to me why the cop was assaulted inside his police car while the cop had his gun drawn on him? u already stated no way he was going for his gun so then what was he doing inside the cop car KNOWING his just committed a robbery and the police are now looking for him. explain...

yea ill tell u wats wrong with the justice system is ppl watch too much TV about an incident and then draw a conclusion as to who is right and who is wrong before they have any of the facts. or ppl like you are given the facts yet still have it in their mind that the cop was wrong so no matter how much evidence to the contrary still isn't enough to convince you.

oh so now because ppl are rioting and burning the city down that means there is something wrong with the justice system. the justice system worked perfect fine here. so as long as ppl riot, loot and burn buildings down that must mean there is something wrong with the justice system and therefore justified!

the problem is in the black communities NOT the justice system. black communities make up 98% of the crime in black communities so is it the justice system thats out of whack or is it the fact that black ppl destroy their own communities and are now looking for someone else to blame?

the blame game.... its been going on in black communities for decades now. instead of blaming the white man or the justice system or holding rallies about how unfairly black criminals are treated maybe they shud hold some rallies on why don’t we see our black leaders going to the communities where young black men are slaughtering each other? where are those protests? oh, its not a white man killing them so no need for change right? talk about racism..... SMH
 
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