Rider tossed under a simi truck!

[MoosesBusa]

I use both for all applications and after only 20 short years of riding have NEVER had a problem that resulted in the use of the rear brake. That being said, I don't road race and I don't "hit the twisties". When i "do the Dragon" I'm referring to a local Chinese Buffet with cheap prices and lousy food! I've gone around 45mph sweepers at 100+ occasionally but I don't make a habit out of it and I don't particularly care for it. For me the thrill isn't worth the risk.
Can't tell people what to do for twistie riding or for track days. My version of "Backing into a corner" is when i park it in the corner of the garage leaning left for more room. I CAN tell them that the PROPER use of the rear brake will stop you faster and safer than not. For slow manuvering in tight areas it is indisposable ( Unless you like riding thru parking lots with your feet down looking retarded)
Please don't try and convince everyone that rear brakes are dangerous. It was the lack of experience that killed the 52 yo Male. NOT his rear brakes. Had he never locked the rear he would have never been ejected from the cockpit into the tandem axles.

 

[Big O]

I was told that is the parking brake, you know like when you're stopped for a light on a hill?  

Exactly.

I went into a sharp downhill lefthander and "touched" the back brake and the wheel hopped. Enough of That!

I just replaced the front discs after 86k miles (EBC Prolite) and I have the original rear pads...Yes, the pads.

 

[wedgester]

Ig is correct rear brake only when on gravel or grass also was told this at the track and I went off in very wet grass and only used the rear brake and I was able to keep the bike up.

 

[Okibusa]

I recently went through the MSF School, as required for all military riders overseas, and they taught us how to apply the brakes in different situations. This lesson was further emphasized by a Japanese riding buddy of mine that use to be a professional racer.

What was taught is that you should use your rear break only when traveling in a straight line. Even then, you must be mindful of your body position because it could cause your rear tire to slide one way or the other. If this happens, you should let go of both breaks, realign the bike and then apply both breaks again, beginning with the front.

I was told to never use the rear break in a curve or when the bike is not in a straight line unless you intend to slide the rear tire, like some racers do. I was also told , and have practice every time I return home, sliding on the rear tire (at low speed) to feel how the bike would react.

Just my two cents

 

[WWJD]

how does one predict how much pressure one will REALLY apply to the back break in times of an intense, split second, high speed reaction? if they are already trained to use the rear break?

 

[Okibusa]

Hmmmm, good question. I think you should train to use both breaks in a straight line and use the front breaks on curves. I think the practice of sliding on your rear tire is just to train.

 

[sageronin]

Sad news but good post and good info. May the riders killed rest in peace.

 

[BusaCruise]

Too much rear brake while downshifting to make a turn will cause it to lock up... so new busa owners know. This happens to me all the time if I'm not careful. I have a habit of using the rear brake, so I need to ease out of that habit!

that "might" be true...only for older Busas and under certain conditions for newer ones (i.e. hard over in conrners).
The back torque limiter built into the clutch basket will keep the rear from locking in "most every" general use condition.

 

[moondog]

At 12800 miles, I've yet to change the rear pads, done the fronts once converting to EBC hh....I do use the rear a bit as a tap will bring the bike straight up, speeding transition from side to side. Handy before you set going through tight twisties. The rear is deadly if used to bleed speed. Going into a corner too hot and you're on the back brake? You're already in trouble....Which begs the question: why anyone would remove a front rotor and go with one (except for track-only drag racing) is beyond me....sure sign of a poser in my book. Leave the stock pad composition on the rear, why would you want more bite back there? A good twisties rider is going to be on the balls of his feet anyway making the use of any back brake a conscience choice....



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[pure_ego]

i believe truly "backing" it in into turn has basically zip to do with the rear brake..

I've always understood it (and I have never done it, so do your own research) to be that while hard on the front brake your taking weight from the wheel and as the bike begin to makes the turn the rear basically moves over. More from a lack of weight holding it to the track.. than anything like it's turn turning or whatever. Think of it as a controlled stoppie of sorts...
The rear tire still in contact with the pavement.. just not enough to keep it tracking the front.

watch races.. find a good "backin' it in" shot and watch it in slow mo.. the rear tire never stops turning.. so obviously it's not locked up.


all that being said. ... I use my rear brake when needed and I practice with it.. thats the biggest difference IMO. If you never use it and aren't used to it... of course it will cause problems when you suddenly find yourself trying to get maximum performance from it.

 

[1 BAD 2K]

Sad story but great learning tool also great info from everybody! I personally don't use my back brake except when tapping it to let traffic behind me know I'm stopping. In a straight line emergancy stop only.

 

[jdevarie]

I agree:  don't PRACTICE using the rear break at all because then you will during a crisis.

I am sure stopping distance IS better using the rear along with the front, but at what price?  Geting used to using and locking up during a crisis.  No thanks.   I'll just learn to use my front more, please.   All I use is the front

MSF  teaches you to use the rear break because you are expected to ride calmly and smoothly all the time.  In teh REAL world, many sportbikers do NOT ride like that.  Thus, different techniques should be used.  MSF does not teach high end experience riding like how to carve canyons, speed on trackdays, or how to stop very quickly and safely while speeding in traffic.   Maybe they should    

probably once those activities become legal they would!

 

[Charlesbusa]

What was taught is that you should use your rear break only when traveling in a straight line. Even then, you must be mindful of your body position because it could cause your rear tire to slide one way or the other. If this happens, you should let go of both breaks, realign the bike and then apply both breaks again, beginning with the front.

If you release the rear brake and your bike sliding one way or the other, you WILL highside!

Don't release the rear brake if your rear is stepping out on you.


Someone mentioned using the rear if you run off the pavement. That's a good idea as long as your straight up and down. Using the front in dirt or run-off will simply lock the front and the handlebars will probably turn on you causing you to go down. Using the rear brake when you go off the pavement is a good idea.

 

[Charlesbusa]

i believe truly "backing" it in into turn has basically zip to do with the rear brake..

I've always understood it (and I have never done it, so do your own research) to be that while hard on the front brake your taking weight from the wheel and as the bike begin to makes the turn the rear basically moves over.    More from a lack of weight holding it to the track.. than anything like it's turn turning or whatever.   Think of it as a controlled stoppie of sorts...
The rear tire still in contact with the pavement..  just not enough to keep it tracking the front.

I think different racers have different techniques. Nicky Hayden runs the largest, by far, rear rotor than any other GP rider. His riding style is very different from most of the GP riders, all the dirt stuff he used to do.

 

[WWJD]

I agree: don't PRACTICE using the rear break at all because then you will during a crisis.

I am sure stopping distance IS better using the rear along with the front, but at what price? Geting used to using and locking up during a crisis. No thanks. I'll just learn to use my front more, please. All I use is the front

MSF teaches you to use the rear break because you are expected to ride calmly and smoothly all the time. In teh REAL world, many sportbikers do NOT ride like that. Thus, different techniques should be used. MSF does not teach high end experience riding like how to carve canyons, speed on trackdays, or how to stop very quickly and safely while speeding in traffic. Maybe they should

probably once those activities become legal they would!

That's what I am saying. MSF [which I think is awesome, and gave me my inital interest at cycling in the first place] teaches normal riding skill for general use, not uber-advanced rear breaking techniques for track days or other "spirited" sportbike riding.

I remember the culture shock when I first began riding behind some much faster riders out in the back 40.... they took me aside before we started, I told them I was a noob, and they grabbed me and shook me and said "DON'T TOUCH YOUR REAR BREAK OUT HERE! EVER! JUST DON'T!" I said, ok ok, and stayed behind them as they railed turns at 80+ leaned way over, 2 bike lengths apart, over and over again. I decided maybe those guys knew something. Now, one of them is a NESBA instructor and control rider.

Now, I listen to more experienced riders, here and elsewhere, that ride like I do.

Hayabusa.Org ought to be H.O.U. Hayabusa Org University for all the knowledge contained here. Great topic and great discussion!

 

[busafng]

Never touch the back brake myself. Need to also remember that the Busa is oriented weight forward which locks the rear more easily and practicing with the rear brake in an emergency is a quick way to the wrong side of the dirt. Our bikes are also prone to highsides due to the power and weight distribution.
Get home safe all.
Busafng

 

[DaCol.]

I guess I'am the only one

who uses everything he's got to ride at my max, which includes the back brake

 Of course I've practiced for years to learn how to ride better and better. Doesn't mean I can't get into a wreck, it just means I feel alot better in control using everything available to the max if I need to

 

[slimshady]

more,more, this is good stuff!

 

[DAB]

Don't like the back brake, too easy to lock when bike's weight is transferred to the front when braking. Causes skipping and highsides.

Here are some instances when it might be useful IMHO:

1) Preventing a backflip when popping wheelies

2) Very slow turning maneuvers at full lock on the handlebars (allows for finer/constant throttle control.)

3) Off-road riding at low speed where you want to avoid having the front end step out, downhill on gravel etc.

Personally I use engine braking, clutch slip and front brake to do my slowing.

 

[jay21112]

I was told that is the parking brake, you know like when you're stopped for a light on a hill?  

Seriously folks, anyone have any hard numbers showing stopping distance comparison with and without rear brake?

Does anyone have a copy of their MSF book?

I remember mine had 3 diagrams with stopping distances on them. The longest was rear brakes only, then front brakes only, then front and rear brakes.

Unfortunately I have no idea where my book is... Probably threw it out. :o(