Russia and Ukraine

Bumblebee said:
This thread is starting to slowly devolve into the Biden/Trump political garbage again....

Putin invaded Ukraine...at this point it doesn't really matter who was in power in the US at the time...he didn't ask the US for permission.

What is important is the people of Ukraine are fighting hard for their country against overwhelming odds...they may lose in the end but Russia won't be steam-rolling over them.
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Getting old, my memory sometimes is not the best.

Who was Trump, is it a name I should have remembered?

I know who Biden is, just not pleased with how he is handling the Ukraine thing. I think we can do a lot better. I believe with really strong leadership, there was a chance Ukraine would not have happened and China would not have been arrogant enough to now offer assistance to Russia.

In the end it is about leadership, respect, relationships, who you know and what you can agree to.
 
jellyrug said:
Getting old, my memory sometimes is not the best.

Who was Trump, is it a name I should have remembered?

I know who Biden is, just not pleased with how he is handling the Ukraine thing. I think we can do a lot better. I believe with really strong leadership, there was a chance Ukraine would not have happened and China would not have been arrogant enough to now offer assistance to Russia.

In the end it is about leadership, respect, relationships, who you know and what you can agree to.
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The former US president and Putin were pretty chummy, I'm sure that had a lot to do with the timing of the invasion....

The west is starting to lose their leverage on China as many off shore corporations are leaving it in droves...

We'll see how the next election plays out....maybe UN peacekeepers will be needed in the US.
 
Bumblebee said:
I will restate...Russia will win the war militarily but won't win anything...the infrastructure will be destroyed and the people will hate them.
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And their military will be looked at from now on to be an absolutely joke. The west gave Russia way to much credit over the years. A bunch of under armed Ukrainians with javelins and stingers sure put a hurting on them.

There is to much corruption in Russia and their military shows it, I read a good article about their military and leaders, generals etc using military funds for luxury goods and lying about what is going on in the military and where the money is going.
 
JeffSyh said:
And their military will be looked at from now on to be an absolutely joke. The west gave Russia way to much credit over the years. A bunch of under armed Ukrainians with javelins and stingers sure put a hurting on them.

There is to much corruption in Russia and their military shows it, I read a good article about their military and leaders, generals etc using military funds for luxury goods and lying about what is going on in the military and where the money is going.
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Let's not forget our first rate military was held at bay by sandal wearing guys mounting machine guns on the back of Toyota pick ups.
 
Bumblebee said:
The former US president and Putin were pretty chummy, I'm sure that had a lot to do with the timing of the invasion....

The west is starting to lose their leverage on China as many off shore corporations are leaving it in droves...

We'll see how the next election plays out....maybe UN peacekeepers will be needed in the US.
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And N Korea didn't launch any missles either.

Maybe it's the addage, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
 
prg said:
Nothing of the sort.
The sandal wearing guys were kicked out politically and geographically in double time but simply moved back in when we FO.
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They never left....they just knew when and where to engage and withdraw......

As the draw down was occurring (since around 2011 or so) the TB just quietly moved into troop vacant areas and laid low......

I found it to be disturbing that there were not a lot of firefights and battles waged by the ANA/ANP when the TB decided to launch their assaults....the ANA special forces guys put up a struggle but ran out of ammo and support and were slaughtered for their efforts when they surrendered.

A western country will never conquer Afghanistan-many have tried and failed...

Just like Russia will never conquer Ukraine.....they will overwhelm them eventually but in the end, there will be no victory.....an sane leader would know that and find a better solution.
 
TallTom said:
And N Korea didn't launch any missles either.

Maybe it's the addage, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
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Sadly, he was cozy with him as well....probably didn't want to hurt his election by launching before it happened...once it was confirmed he was out, all bets were off then.

All these bad actors know the US can't engage everywhere on all fronts so if Russia is keeping their eyes busy, the other kids will act up....

I saw a tiny little blurb in the news where uniformed troops in Ethiopia were burning civilians alive and killing villages full of civilians.....where is the outrage and intervention? That barely made the news and I know from experience these sorts of atrocities occur each day in these sorts of countries.....
 
JeffSyh said:
And their military will be looked at from now on to be an absolutely joke. The west gave Russia way to much credit over the years. A bunch of under armed Ukrainians with javelins and stingers sure put a hurting on them.

There is to much corruption in Russia and their military shows it, I read a good article about their military and leaders, generals etc using military funds for luxury goods and lying about what is going on in the military and where the money is going.
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It was (and is) their nuke capability which gives them any sort of street cred.....

Russia never really recovered from the break up of the Warsaw Pact...then they were fighting in Georgia and Chechnya for years and years...once those wars were over, the Russian forces sat on their arses and got complacent. We see the result of this during the invasion of Ukraine...
 
I saw a documentary that said the Russians were focused on creating superweapons to have the appearance of competing with the US and China but few of these weapons ever make it to actual in-service status. In the meantime, they neglected their conventional forces. The Russians are still relying on conscripts for God's sake!

It turns out there are very few operational SU 57s in their air force and we aren't seeing many of the advanced aircraft in the conflict. They are using advanced armor, and it runs out of gas and blows up just like the old stuff!

So now Putin has exposed himself as the Wizzard with nothing behind the curtain. We're seeing he can't achieve even the simplest of his goals in Ukraine and is now resorting to terror and destruction in an "If I can't have it nobody will" strategy. While I get we are exposed to propaganda too, whoever heard of an aggressor calling for help with more equipment to continue their aggression?
 
fallenarch said:
BTW: speaking of propaganda, does anyone really think that maternity hospital was not being used to patch up Ukrainian fighters too? Not saying it was right to hit the hospital, just that they were most definitely doing more than delivering babies.
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Generally speaking, if the Russians had done proper recces, a modern military paints such institutions to avoid if possible....prisons, hospitals, etc are generally captured but not engaged by heavy arms. Schools are fair game as unless this was a complete surprise, these sorts of places are normally evacuated...however, recce elements are perpetual and always moving/observing....if they note a school becomes a safe harbor for local citizens, the school then becomes captured rather than destroyed.

One of our jobs was to conduct such operations and assist in guiding and directing the battle force as to which targets to engage with what force to minimize collateral damage and loss of civilian life.

This clearly isn't being done during this invasion, Russian intel gathering capability, logistics, command and control are all sorely lacking.
 
fallenarch said:
The Russians do come across as very unprofessional and basically incompetent on many, shocking levels. Surprising. Do you think they sent the expendable troops thinking this would be a cakewalk?
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I definitely do....it was reported many were conscripts and their equipment looks old for the most part...there is some newer stuff in there but no Armada fleet....I believe Russian planners decided to send in expendable forces to try and soften the Ukraines and have them expend western supplied weapons.

I read the Spetsnaz were deployed in large numbers but they seem to have had minimal impact on the mission overall...even the Russian paras were not really effective..

On the other side of the coin, if this were the US or UK who deployed these sorts of elite assets on the battlefield, they would most definitely have had a very major impact.

The Ukrainians were privy to very good western training...our Canadians trained over 50k and that training is evident. Ukraine are using western tactics against the Russians which is baffling the invasion force...
 
Bumblebee said:
I will restate...Russia will win the war militarily but won't win anything...the infrastructure will be destroyed and the people will hate them.
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Interesting, I’m not so sure they will win. We shall see. Putin just may lose his support, by taking too much of a risk and under estimating the response he is getting.

I really believe that if the US could fix their internal political problems and get the right leadership in place, to manage successfully across the isle, freedom across the globe will win.

It would mean that the people in countries such as China and Russia will no longer accept their autocratic government’s, there may be revolutions, but eventually things will settle down.

If Putin loses this one, that may be the start of a Democratic Russia.

The problem is we have a broken system here in the US, with poor leadership. The example is not good to the rest of the world. Is there anyone here who respects our Vice President?
 
jellyrug said:
Interesting, I’m not so sure they will win. We shall see. Putin just may lose his support, by taking too much of a risk and under estimating the response he is getting.

I really believe that if the US could fix their internal political problems and get the right leadership in place, to manage successfully across the isle, freedom across the globe will win.

It would mean that the people in countries such as China and Russia will no longer accept their autocratic government’s, there may be revolutions, but eventually things will settle down.

If Putin loses this one, that may be the start of a Democratic Russia.

The problem is we have a broken system here in the US, with poor leadership. The example is not good to the rest of the world. Is there anyone here who respects our Vice President?
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I've just read that Ukraine is starting to make concessions and are talking about not joining NATO and remaining a neutral entity...

I didn't see anything regarding to the Donbas or Crimea regions...if those two remaining contested points get sorted...it could be the end of the invasion as these were the main demands given by the Putin regime to stop the aggression....
 
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