Secondary Butterflies removal review

[BigBadBusa08]

When i removed them i cant say there was a particularly noticeable difference, but i also ride fairly conservatively and dont wheelie. I do have to say the bike does ride and shift a bit smooth, especially sans clutch and i feel as though it has a bit of extra pep just off idle

 

[BusaDudeBrazil]

Don´t mean to revive an old thread but I feel I must post my recent experience with the secondaries removal.

Had it removed since I was installing the PAIR blockoff plates, didn´t hurt to try the mod since I was at a dyno shop owned by a friend.

At dyno it made negligible difference, but the experience on the throttle has improved so much that I can´t believe there is not a bigger hype over this.

The dyno shows one gear pulling, and people use 4th gear so the secondaries are supposed to be all open on "A" mode, no surprise there is no difference at the numbers.

However, on 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, the bike now "breathes" , there is no stuttering or hesitation on the throttle response, it seems to pull harder and wants to lift the front end easily.

This, for me, is clear indication that now it is letting all the possible air flow into the throttle bodies even at lower RPMS, allowing more power to be output from down low.

I wish I had time to make 1st and 2nd gear dyno runs, just to prove this point, maybe some other time (now putting the secondaries back in is so much of a PITA that I don´t really think I will do it).

To those who claim it may have lost power at the mid range, because of some air flow dynamics or whatever, I did not feel that, all I feel is the brakes now need to be used sooner when WOT. This is yet to be proven on a dyno doing a 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear pull.

I still need to flash the ECU to eliminate the PAIR FI code, tune fuel map, increase redline and remove 6th gear limiter.

Hope it encourages other people to give it a shot and share the findings here!

 

[Pit Bull 13]

Ill just go with a Turbo.. Thanks for posting.. I was wondering about it.

 

[Amode]

Okay this is my comment on the STP's. I would not recomend taking them out for a lot of reasons. All the information that you need is in the ECU editor, Its right in front of your face. For your Ign, Fuel, TPS, STP, Settings. Before anyone startes adjusting find out were your TPS is weather its Ign, or Fuel. I don't beleive in Dyno's because you will never get it right because on a dyno its WOT. It took me a while to fiqure it out but know i know about were every thing is at and it runs very well and smooth. I can be a very aggressive rider with my settings i want to go straight not up. Pay attention to the settings, I have the stock pipes, Cats, Just a bunch of diff settings. i ride with a guy who has had all the Brock stuff Headers, pipes Power commander, TRE. He just don't understand it. These are both 08's. Goodbuy. The ECU Editor is the best just learn how to use it.

 

[jeepinocala]

They should not be removed it will just ruin how clean your bike runs. May even lose power in certian conditions. Just mod your bike restrictions are fine to remove for power these are there for a reason and it is not to slow you down.

 

[knobby]

Its funny how hardware put on by the manufacturer for emissions control or limiting noise and marketed as helping drive ability are
staunchly defended by trusting consumers.
If the mod interests you give it a try ten minutes out, ten minutes in.

 

[m_ridgeway]

Its funny how hardware put on by the manufacturer for emissions control or limiting noise and marketed as helping drive ability are
staunchly defended by trusting consumers.
If the mod interests you give it a try ten minutes out, ten minutes in.

its funny how this is just like a tre and offers all this seat of pants performance

 

[niso]

This is the same mod that 1250 Bandits have been doing since introduction an has improved throttle response with no ill effects. Dale Walker at HoleShot was the one doing the testing.

 

[GMbusa]

Could it just be mind over matter? Kinda like when your cars all detailed out and it "feels" faster, but it's really not.

 

[POWERHOUSE]

Okay this is my comment on the STP's. I would not recomend taking them out for a lot of reasons. All the information that you need is in the ECU editor, Its right in front of your face. For your Ign, Fuel, TPS, STP, Settings. Before anyone startes adjusting find out were your TPS is weather its Ign, or Fuel. I don't beleive in Dyno's because you will never get it right because on a dyno its WOT. It took me a while to fiqure it out but know i know about were every thing is at and it runs very well and smooth. I can be a very aggressive rider with my settings i want to go straight not up. Pay attention to the settings, I have the stock pipes, Cats, Just a bunch of diff settings. i ride with a guy who has had all the Brock stuff Headers, pipes Power commander, TRE. He just don't understand it. These are both 08's. Goodbuy. The ECU Editor is the best just learn how to use it.

On an air/fuel, eddy current dyno,it is NOT wide open throttle when mapping. The only time the bike is at wide open throttle is when you are tuning for wide open throttle , FYI. When building a custom dyno map, mapping is done at 2%, 5%, 10, 15, 20, 40, 60, and 100% throttle. You obviously don't believe in dynos because you don't know anything about them . . .

Also, as far as secondary butterflies are concerned, they should be removed and thrown in the garbage pail along with catalytic converters and stock pipes . . . IMHO, you may be "smooth", but you ain't fast.

 

[Dozerdriver]

On an air/fuel, eddy current dyno,it is NOT wide open throttle when mapping. The only time the bike is at wide open throttle is when you are tuning for wide open throttle , FYI. When building a custom dyno map, mapping is done at 2%, 5%, 10, 15, 20, 40, 60, and 100% throttle. You obviously don't believe in dynos because you don't know anything about them . . .

Also, as far as secondary butterflies are concerned, they should be removed and thrown in the garbage pail along with catalytic converters and stock pipes . . . IMHO, you may be "smooth", but you ain't fast.

I think if he has his bike tuned by a good tuner he would understand. Racing buddies isn't just the power of the bike... and if yours is orange it is faster anyways

 

[Amode]

On an air/fuel, eddy current dyno,it is NOT wide open throttle when mapping. The only time the bike is at wide open throttle is when you are tuning for wide open throttle , FYI. When building a custom dyno map, mapping is done at 2%, 5%, 10, 15, 20, 40, 60, and 100% throttle. You obviously don't believe in dynos because you don't know anything about them . . .

Also, as far as secondary butterflies are concerned, they should be removed and thrown in the garbage pail along with catalytic converters and stock pipes . . . IMHO, you may be "smooth", but you ain't fast.

Really Frank
2%, 5%, 10%, !5%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 100%. Sounds like the Numbers game. I like this. If your on the dyno why would you tune at these numbers. I have been tunning motors since you were probbally in three cornerd pants. Pro stock, Blown gas, top fuel. 2%, 5%.

 

[bradbusa]

correct me if i'm wrong.. at lower rpms, more intake velocity (partially shut throttle plates) results in higher torque output; and at higher rpms, more intake volume (less intake restriction from the secondary throttle plates) results in higher peak hp numbers.
is this not the entire purpose of the secondary throttle plates to begin with?
kind of like an exhaust valve or yamaha's variable length inlet runners in the R1.. (ycc-i)
seems like suzuki wanted to keep up with the technology competition of other manufacturers (we all know the hayabusa fell into a technology coma for the first 8 years of its life) and gain a little torque in lower rpms while not suffering higher rpm hp with unrestricted intake volume.
my question is why do the throttle plates not open up to 100% while in any gear? maybe the bike doesnt need that much airflow (volume) at the expense of a loss of horsepower? sometimes too much air volume is a bad thing.
any thoughts? opinions? i'm just thinking out loud here..

 

[smithabusa]

petrik showed a nice illustration before showing 94% (max they open) lines them up perfectly for stock velocity stacks etc

 

[Amode]

Really Frank
2%, 5%, 10%, !5%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 100%. Sounds like the Numbers game. I like this. If your on the dyno why would you tune at these numbers. I have been tunning motors since you were probbally in three cornerd pants. Pro stock, Blown gas, top fuel. 2%, 5%.

Oh by the way Frank, I do believe in dyno's for the serious racer who uses them all the time. Or turbo,s, Nitrous.

 

[jeepinocala]

Ok so this is starting to sound like a carb forum correct me if this is wrong but you take them off and it will run iratically at lower rpm.

 

[Amode]

correct me if i'm wrong.. at lower rpms, more intake velocity (partially shut throttle plates) results in higher torque output; and at higher rpms, more intake volume (less intake restriction from the secondary throttle plates) results in higher peak hp numbers.
is this not the entire purpose of the secondary throttle plates to begin with?
kind of like an exhaust valve or yamaha's variable length inlet runners in the R1.. (ycc-i)
seems like suzuki wanted to keep up with the technology competition of other manufacturers (we all know the hayabusa fell into a technology coma for the first 8 years of its life) and gain a little torque in lower rpms while not suffering higher rpm hp with unrestricted intake volume.
my question is why do the throttle plates not open up to 100% while in any gear? maybe the bike doesnt need that much airflow (volume) at the expense of a loss of horsepower? sometimes too much air volume is a bad thing.
any thoughts? opinions? i'm just thinking out loud here..

Yes some of that is true, Susuki spent a lot of time and money on these Busa's. They are a lot smarter than us. So why would you change every thing like pipes, taking out STP's, TRE, Power commander. Then put it on the dyno for one time. And just add fuel and nothing else. Like i said all the settings are there. Experiment. How do you really no if you have more HP with one Dyno run. The only way to make real power is The Turbo.

 

[bradbusa]

Ok so this is starting to sound like a carb forum correct me if this is wrong but you take them off and it will run iratically at lower rpm.

i dont think it will necessarily run irratically. i do however think the bike will not be performing at its peak performance at lower engine speeds, and i think removing them however will allow a larger amount of unrestricted air VOLUME. which is not the best thing for the highest output, and drivability, at lower rpms (but is highly desirable when approaching redline).
velocity(air speed) is what you want at lower engine speed.. which to me makes sense that they would be mostly closed in the lower rpm range.

another thing to consider is that not only is the ecu commanding a certain air fuel ratio, but timing is also going to be affected by making changes to the intake system.

 

[sixpack577]

How bout everybody back up and read the original few posts on this thread? I never said it would gain any hp, and it would need to be dyno tuned to run better anyway.
I'm not a dragracer! I'm a wheelie rider! Take em out and tell me the bike doesn't wheelie ALOT easier! So, you don't ride wheelies you say...then this isn't for you!
They've been out of my bike for around 4 or 5k miles, with zero ill effects. Does the engine have flat spots or not feel super smooth throughout the rpms? Yes, it deffinately does, and it's not as smooth. I'm all for ECU Editor, and will have my bike dynoed with it and several other mods when cash allows.
There is much more bottom end power available SOONER with them gone, regardless that it's not as smooth, and maybe a little slower. I'm not claiming my seat of the pants can tell you it's more powerful. I'm saying that it lifts the front much easier! They're in there for emmisions, and to smooth the power delivery. To make the bike more usuable and rider friendly, for the folks that just bought a Busa to cruise, or at least not get the most out of it.
Funny how critics haven't tried it, and don't realize what the original point of the mod was.

 

[sixpack577]

Ok so this is starting to sound like a carb forum correct me if this is wrong but you take them off and it will run iratically at lower rpm.

You are wrong, it runs and idles fine with them out. There are certain rpms when it's getting too much for the factory tune. So deal with it, dyno tune it, or simply don't do it.