I think this pretty much sums up most of our points. 80% of the country is Christian, but we need to remove all traces of Christianity so that we don't offend the 20% that isn't. Only in America.
Should they take down the War Memorial Cross?
- Thread starter BlueHaya
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I think this pretty much sums up most of our points. 80% of the country is Christian, but we need to remove all traces of Christianity so that we don't offend the 20% that isn't. Only in America.
This one I will argue. The 1st amendment doesn't provide for separation of church and state.
First Amendment said:
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion. This does not prohibit the display of a religous symbol on Goverment property
Thomas Jefferson said:
Thomas Jefferson introduces the separation of Church and State here, once again to reenforce that the Government needs to be kept out of the Church. There is no mention that the Church needs to be kept out of the Government.
I think the argument that a cross on a war memorial is the Goverment showing preference to one religion is very weak at best. What it comes down to is a small minority demonstraiting their intolerance of others.
In this case what do you think the plaintiff, who is a Roman Catholic, stands to gain?
Lets not lose sight of the issue. No one is saying a monument to WWI Vets is wrong. Nor dose anyone want a monument removed. Therefore there is no editing of history or loss of the historical siginificance of what our vets did in WWI.
No one is even objects to the cross:
...the former Assistant Superintendent of the Mojave National Preserve where the cross sits -- objects not to the cross itself (he himself is Roman Catholic) but rather to the placement of the cross on public property unaccompanied by other religious symbols....
So just unwad your panties and settle down. If anything this is about respect for Vets of other faiths who laid down their lives and bled the same red blood as Christians on the battlefield, but are not represented by that monument.
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afterhours
Registered
or it shows a large majority that is intolerant of opposing minority view points??
"thus building a wall of separation between church and State." t. jefferson
walls work both ways.
the country was founded on christian principles, "guy i don't agree with", "why, o why" do you care? do i get pissy about jews having their symbols up? no, they're welcome to do so. if a supreme court justice wants to celebrate kwanzaa, do i get pissy? of course not, thank you for serving your honor. why the hell do you atheist "folks" have a problem with christianity? jesus died for you too, whether you believe it or not man. your salvation is at will-call, all you have to do is accept it.
furthermore, if you have a relative who died serving their country, wouldn't you want their religious symbol, whatever it may be, to be shown on their grave? if they are going to do something, they need to put appropriate religious symbols up to honor individual soldiers.
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This is not helpful, bro.
no direct attacks...this is a discussion
not intended to be an attack, but perhaps my wording was a bit harsh.
Why can i accept other peoples religion, or lack thereof, with little more than the lugubrious thought that they won't be with the rest of us in heaven, but others aren't content until the world is a place without religion? They take down and attempt to dismantle long standing traditions to make themselves feel better about what? why do they feel compelled, in this day and age, with all that's going on, to do something like this. not my grave, so i suppose i need to realize that i don't have a personal stake in this action, however it's very difficult not to get angry when things like this go on all the time. the country was founded by a bunch of christians, that's the way it is. a fair majority of the country are either christian or catholic. the statistics i've found show that over 75% of the country believes in christ, and in a close second place, the non religious folks come in at 13%.
so strictly from a statistical viewpoint, don't you think that a vast majority of the folks who died serving this country were christians? assuming that there are no other lurking variables, wouldn't it be fair to say that at least 3/4's of the soldiers who died were christians?
Why can i accept other peoples religion, or lack thereof, with little more than the lugubrious thought that they won't be with the rest of us in heaven, but others aren't content until the world is a place without religion? They take down and attempt to dismantle long standing traditions to make themselves feel better about what? why do they feel compelled, in this day and age, with all that's going on, to do something like this. not my grave, so i suppose i need to realize that i don't have a personal stake in this action, however it's very difficult not to get angry when things like this go on all the time. the country was founded by a bunch of christians, that's the way it is. a fair majority of the country are either christian or catholic. the statistics i've found show that over 75% of the country believes in christ, and in a close second place, the non religious folks come in at 13%.
so strictly from a statistical viewpoint, don't you think that a vast majority of the folks who died serving this country were christians? assuming that there are no other lurking variables, wouldn't it be fair to say that at least 3/4's of the soldiers who died were christians?
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Wholeheartedly agree. The conversation should remain at most a spirited exchange.
No amount of name-calling nor chest-pounding here will change legislation or the opinions, beliefs, nor feelings of others.
afterhours
Registered
this country was not founded on christian principles....just because the majority were christians does not mean what you claim.
this country was founded, on the principle
"all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness are not the sole property of christianity.
your faith is your business, if you would like a cross on your home, your car or your tombstone...that is your business, that is your property.
however, federal land is not your property.....my non-believing, will burn in hell for all eternity ass pays taxes too....
why is it that the people screaming the loudest about religious freedom, only mean "thier" religion? those same people don't mind religious statues in government buildings or land, as long as it thier religious symbols?
i'm not offended by other religions, or even the lack of one. i'm offended by the lack of tolerance of the minority. like i said, if you want to burn a menora (is there an "h" on the end?) in the supreme court, you're more than welcome. but just because you aren't a christian doesn't give you the right to dishonor those who served (or the rest of us for that matter) by wiping out any traces of their religion. and guess what, christians pay taxes too, so that's "our" land just as much as it is yours. and as i said before, your salvation was already guaranteed, your only task is to accept it. sorry i got a bit wound up before, it didn't make my point any better, and i'm sorry if i offended you, again that wasn't my intention.
i'd love to take this discussion to chat, if anyone is interested. give me about 20 mins tho, i have to finish painting the guest bathroom.
i'd love to take this discussion to chat, if anyone is interested. give me about 20 mins tho, i have to finish painting the guest bathroom.
a quote.....
"Our Founding Fathers separated church from state, but they wisely did not separate God from state; they acknowledged God as the source of our rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical morality directly into our founding documents and laws, and into our values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in America. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church it's self; and, additionally, setting up our laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to the American Character, and to what is known as "American Exceptionalism."
"Our Founding Fathers separated church from state, but they wisely did not separate God from state; they acknowledged God as the source of our rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical morality directly into our founding documents and laws, and into our values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in America. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church it's self; and, additionally, setting up our laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to the American Character, and to what is known as "American Exceptionalism."
avocado and black, i don't know where she comes up with these combinations... anyway, building on the point that blue made, church and state are separated, think about it. if church and state were not separated, the president would be a pastor, and we'd be tried and convicted of the ten commandments. well, maybe not ALL 10, but we'd all certainly be in prison for a couple of em.
afterhours
Registered
tlaks about religion tend to get emotiaonally chraged, you have written nothing that offended or insulted me personally.
i do think it is funny how we are both upset at the lack of tolerance, from the other side....
Blue - Who are you quoting here?
an article from online..... The American Thinker....."Judeo-Christian Values" by Ronald Cherry
American Thinker: Judeo-Christian Values
Cool, Thanks.
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