afterhours
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Should they take down the War Memorial Cross?
- Thread starter BlueHaya
- Start date
Orge
That's just it though. There wasn't just Christians that fought in the war. I wonder how long it would of lasted if it was A Jewish symbol up there to represent the "Every" war veteran? How would that show respect to the Christians?
The cross was a forced Symbol on those who didn't have that as their religious symbol. At the time it was erected,do you think they had any say in what was to be put up? Things were a lot different back then.
Everyone has to remember that this boils down to a court battle. How is a court battle won? Every aspect is either attacked or brought to attention by one side or another. Extreme in some cases,but that's how it is won or lost.
Like I said in my previous post. The cross doesn't bother me personally.
Government took over the land,therefore assumed responsibility. If something on that land is found unconstitutional,then why would it be allowed to stay? If the government would be found to turn the cheek to such thing...What would that promote?
In this case. Either way I see it as a bad outcome. However the "can-ole-worms" has been opened and has to run its course.
That's just it though. There wasn't just Christians that fought in the war. I wonder how long it would of lasted if it was A Jewish symbol up there to represent the "Every" war veteran? How would that show respect to the Christians?
The cross was a forced Symbol on those who didn't have that as their religious symbol. At the time it was erected,do you think they had any say in what was to be put up? Things were a lot different back then.
Everyone has to remember that this boils down to a court battle. How is a court battle won? Every aspect is either attacked or brought to attention by one side or another. Extreme in some cases,but that's how it is won or lost.
Like I said in my previous post. The cross doesn't bother me personally.
Government took over the land,therefore assumed responsibility. If something on that land is found unconstitutional,then why would it be allowed to stay? If the government would be found to turn the cheek to such thing...What would that promote?
In this case. Either way I see it as a bad outcome. However the "can-ole-worms" has been opened and has to run its course.
I know I'm not going to change any opinions here so I'm leaving for now with this thought. Christians are being accused in this thread of being intollerant because we are standing up for our right to keep the Government from supressing our freedom of religion. Nowhere in here have I read a Christian say that a Jewish, Islamic, Muslim, Hindu, Budist, or any other religious symbol should be banned. Nor have I read that the Government should be forcing non-believers to display religious symbols. But plenty have said that Christian symbols need to be banned. Food for thought.
I keep thinking of that video where the Taliban destroyed the centuries-old Buddist (wasn't it) momuments in Afghanistan....
If this were a 70 year old war memorial out there as tribute to Muslim Dead, or a Budda for Buddist dead (etc). I would not be offended as it has historical significance, and who am I to destroy that.
If this were a 70 year old war memorial out there as tribute to Muslim Dead, or a Budda for Buddist dead (etc). I would not be offended as it has historical significance, and who am I to destroy that.
You are missing the point. The ACLU is saying that no religious symbol(s) should be up. As the government shouldn't sanction it cause it is unconstitutional. This particular one just happens to be christian. What are the odds of that,since Christianity is the larges of religions in America? The rest you are over reading into the topic and filling in with your own emotions.
According to the constitution(separation of church and state) the government is suppose to play a "neutral role" in religious standings. At least that is the grounds the ACLU is working on.
Don't kid yourself, the ACLU is saying that the Government needs to sanction athieism as the National religion of the United States. I already covered the separation of Church and State falacy in a previous post.
BW
Where in any post do you see anyone saying religious symbols should be banned? In fact the lawsuit is not even saying that.
How is your right to freedom of religion in any way infringed upon by either of the following:
1) The absence of all religious symbols on federal property.
2) The presence of religious symbols of all faiths represented on federal property
3) The removial of a religious symbol from federal property.
Lastly please reference one piece of credable documentation citing any support to the notion that: "the ACLU is saying that the Government needs to sanction athieism as the National religion of the United States".
as I went to their home page and seen some of the other articles.. you sir are correct.
afterhours
Registered
by diane dew?
the famous anti abortion activist?
the well know author of christian based novels and short stories
the creator of a website called bible treasurechest?
hardly an unbiased source.
J'Man
Registered
If you follow most of these ACLU cases you can see that nothing good comes from them. It is an atheist organization that is serving their agenda on everyone else. If you don't believe me call them and ask them to represent you as a Christian that has had their civil rights violated. It will go nowhere. Funny how what's good for the goose is not good for the gander here.....
I guess it doesn't really matter anyway. According to the Word Christians will be persecuted for standing up for Christ. If you look back even just 30 years ago you can plainly see it coming.
I would encourage any non-believers to read, "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It's an excellent read about a devout atheist's journey to disprove Christ.
Anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend!
I guess it doesn't really matter anyway. According to the Word Christians will be persecuted for standing up for Christ. If you look back even just 30 years ago you can plainly see it coming.
I would encourage any non-believers to read, "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It's an excellent read about a devout atheist's journey to disprove Christ.
Anyway, I hope everyone has a great weekend!
afterhours
Registered
rita warren v. fairfax county - ACLU represented a christian woman
http://www.aclufl.org/pdfs/StPeteLetter.pdf aclu of florida protestc the rights of chrisitans to protest at gay rights parade.
ACLU to county: Get a Christmas tree or else - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News aclu fights to allow christmas tree display
Crayton Press Release ACLU protects the right of Edwin Crayton to protest agaisnt Wal-Mart and thier gay policy
ACLU of Washington ACLU protects the right of christian minister to preach in Spokane Plaza
perhaps you need to read more, because the ACLU had no problem protecting the rights of christians.
http://www.aclufl.org/pdfs/StPeteLetter.pdf aclu of florida protestc the rights of chrisitans to protest at gay rights parade.
ACLU to county: Get a Christmas tree or else - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News aclu fights to allow christmas tree display
Crayton Press Release ACLU protects the right of Edwin Crayton to protest agaisnt Wal-Mart and thier gay policy
ACLU of Washington ACLU protects the right of christian minister to preach in Spokane Plaza
perhaps you need to read more, because the ACLU had no problem protecting the rights of christians.
afterhours
Registered
CAPITOL SQUARE REVIEW
AND ADVISORY BOARD et al
v.
PINETTE et al.
here the ACLU is protecting the rights of the KKK to put thier "christian Symbols" in a public place.
AND ADVISORY BOARD et al
v.
PINETTE et al.
here the ACLU is protecting the rights of the KKK to put thier "christian Symbols" in a public place.
Guys - if I may offer a couple of thoughts here:
1. There is no such thing as an atheist is a firefight. Never met one - and I am convinced one doesn't exist.
2. If there are any travelers; to many, it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe.
3. I do not directly connect the cross with service - but in 1934?
If the ACLU wants the cross removed, I am okay with that. What do they recommend that it be replaced with? The memorial symbolizes something. If the cross isn't the best image for that something, then come up with something more appropriate to replace it with, so that you do not disturb the reverence for the sacrifices made by people who died to protect the rights of others to bring this lawsuit to begin with.
1. There is no such thing as an atheist is a firefight. Never met one - and I am convinced one doesn't exist.
2. If there are any travelers; to many, it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe.
3. I do not directly connect the cross with service - but in 1934?
If the ACLU wants the cross removed, I am okay with that. What do they recommend that it be replaced with? The memorial symbolizes something. If the cross isn't the best image for that something, then come up with something more appropriate to replace it with, so that you do not disturb the reverence for the sacrifices made by people who died to protect the rights of others to bring this lawsuit to begin with.
Kinda a point I was trying to make. If someone or group dig hard enough they will find what they are looking for.
911 event is a prime example.
Dec 21 2012 is a good example too.
Gun control...
List can go on and on. How long it goes depends on how much digging you will put into it.
I had a life threatening cancer and felt no need to change my views as an atheist.
cheers
ken
Here's the irony of it all. Every time the Government passes a law to ban anything associated with any religion from anyplace, including Government property, it is violating the 1st Amendment which it claims the law is based. We have gotten so PC in this Country that we are allowing special intrest groups to erode our rights and are aplauding them for backing the underdog as they do it.
Referencing what would be accepted as "credible" documentation to this group isn't possible on any controversial topic. Everyone is biased to one side or the other.
The government can only ban religious symbology from public property, and rightly so, public proberty belongs to everyone, and no one religion should be represented. Do you have any examples of the government banning or forcing the removal of a religious item from private property, because that would be a violation of 1st amendment rights?
As for your belief that the ACLU is an athiest organization I believe at least for examples are provided to the contrary.
Lets not forget that the ACLU did not seek out this monument, they are represneting a private citizen, there have been 2 court rulings to support tha palintiff and a simple solution to this lawsuit would be to represent all faiths of the veterens that our honored by the memorial.
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J'Man
Registered
I'll admit I don't know all the details of every case the ACLU has chose to represent, however the MAJORITY of the cases from Christians do appear to be turned down. Would you like me to begin posting the many examples of where Christians have been turned down? Which I'm sure since you were quick to do your research on who had been represented, feel free to research all the ones that have been turned down (a simple search on Google). Here are just a few additional reasons that personally I don't see the value this organization adds to America (posted on Stormfront):
10. The ACLU was founded by Communist, with communist ideals, communist goals, and they continue to impose a Communist like agenda on America daily. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin stated clearly…
My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemploymentTherefo re, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself. I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."
9. The ACLU does not believe in the Second Amendment.
ACLU POLICY. The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court’slong-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms. ACLU Policy #47
#8. Their outright hatred of the Boyscouts. They are currently doing everything in their power to hurt this organization. They attacked their free speech right to exclude gays, and are threatening schools, and fighting in court to get their charters shut down. The oppose the military supporting them, and will sue the pants off any school that attempts to charter them.
#7. The ACLU are pro-death. Not only is the ACLU Pro-abortion, it’s the ACLU’s top priority. It most definitely takes a backseat to free speech for the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the ACLU has fought against the free speech rights of those that oppose it. If its abortion or euthanasia, as long as its pro-death you can count on the ACLU to support it. The only exception to the ACLU’s pro-death stance, is if it is a convicted criminal; in this case they are against death.
#6. The ACLU advocate open borders. Not only have the ACLU opposed the Minute Men, a group who are simply exercizing their freedom of speech, protesting and stepping up where the government is failing, but they have helped illegals cross the border.
#5. The ACLU is anti-Christian. The list is endless on this one. Under the guise of "seperation of Church and State", the ACLU have made a name for theirself on being rabidly anti-Christian. This is one area where they are most hypocritical. They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. They are against Christianity in school, but oddly remain silent as our children are taught to be Muslims. Whether its baby Jesus, ten commandments, or tiny crosses on county seals, the ACLU will be there to secularize America, and rewrite our history.
#4. The ACLU Opposes National Security. The ACLU have opposed almost every effort in the arena of national security. From the bird flu to bag searches, the ACLU have been against it. No matter what kind of search someone tries to do to protect people, the ACLU have proved they are against them across the board. Its kind of ironic that they don’t practice the principles they preach.
Take a walk into the NYCLU's Manhattan headquarters - which it shares with other organizations - and you?ll find a sign warning visitors that all bags are subject to search.
#3. The ACLU Defend the enemy. They have a long history of this one. They defended the P.L.O. in 1985. They defended Quadafi in the 1980’s. And they continue today. They have told Gitmo detainees they have the right to remain silent, as in not talking to interrogators. One issue that really disturbs me is their refusal of funds from organizations such as the United Way that were concerned the money would be used to support terrorism.
In October of 2004, the ACLU turned down $1.15 million in funding from two of it's most generous and loyal contributors, the Ford and Rockefeller foundations, saying new anti-terrorism restrictions demanded by the institutions make it unable to accept their funds.
The Ford Foundation now bars recipients of its funds from engaging in any activity that promotes violence, terrorism, bigotry, or the destruction of any state.
The Rockefeller Foundation’ provisions state that recipients of its funds may not directly or indirectly engage in, promote, or support other organizations or individuals who engage in or promote terrorist activity.
#2. The ACLU supports child **** distribution and child molesters like NAMBLA.
As legislative counsel for the ACLU in 1985, Barry Lynn told the U.S. Attorney General’ Commission on Pornography (of which Focus on the Family President Dr. James C. Dobson was a member) that child pornography was protected by the First Amendment. While production of child **** could be prevented by law, he argued, its distribution could not be.
There is no doubt the The ACLU are perverting the Constitution.
#1. The ACLU fufills its agenda using my tax money. What more can I say on this one?
There are countless reasons the ACLU needs to be stopped. So don’t just stand by and complain, do something. Get involved. Here are some ways you can get involved to help us stop the ACLU.
Support and donate to organizations fighting them in Court. Here are the ones at the forefront.
ACLJ
Alliance Defense Fund
Thomas More Law Center
Join the Stop The ACLU Coalition
10. The ACLU was founded by Communist, with communist ideals, communist goals, and they continue to impose a Communist like agenda on America daily. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin stated clearly…
My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemploymentTherefo re, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself. I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."
9. The ACLU does not believe in the Second Amendment.
ACLU POLICY. The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court’slong-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms. ACLU Policy #47
#8. Their outright hatred of the Boyscouts. They are currently doing everything in their power to hurt this organization. They attacked their free speech right to exclude gays, and are threatening schools, and fighting in court to get their charters shut down. The oppose the military supporting them, and will sue the pants off any school that attempts to charter them.
#7. The ACLU are pro-death. Not only is the ACLU Pro-abortion, it’s the ACLU’s top priority. It most definitely takes a backseat to free speech for the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the ACLU has fought against the free speech rights of those that oppose it. If its abortion or euthanasia, as long as its pro-death you can count on the ACLU to support it. The only exception to the ACLU’s pro-death stance, is if it is a convicted criminal; in this case they are against death.
#6. The ACLU advocate open borders. Not only have the ACLU opposed the Minute Men, a group who are simply exercizing their freedom of speech, protesting and stepping up where the government is failing, but they have helped illegals cross the border.
#5. The ACLU is anti-Christian. The list is endless on this one. Under the guise of "seperation of Church and State", the ACLU have made a name for theirself on being rabidly anti-Christian. This is one area where they are most hypocritical. They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. They are against Christianity in school, but oddly remain silent as our children are taught to be Muslims. Whether its baby Jesus, ten commandments, or tiny crosses on county seals, the ACLU will be there to secularize America, and rewrite our history.
#4. The ACLU Opposes National Security. The ACLU have opposed almost every effort in the arena of national security. From the bird flu to bag searches, the ACLU have been against it. No matter what kind of search someone tries to do to protect people, the ACLU have proved they are against them across the board. Its kind of ironic that they don’t practice the principles they preach.
Take a walk into the NYCLU's Manhattan headquarters - which it shares with other organizations - and you?ll find a sign warning visitors that all bags are subject to search.
#3. The ACLU Defend the enemy. They have a long history of this one. They defended the P.L.O. in 1985. They defended Quadafi in the 1980’s. And they continue today. They have told Gitmo detainees they have the right to remain silent, as in not talking to interrogators. One issue that really disturbs me is their refusal of funds from organizations such as the United Way that were concerned the money would be used to support terrorism.
In October of 2004, the ACLU turned down $1.15 million in funding from two of it's most generous and loyal contributors, the Ford and Rockefeller foundations, saying new anti-terrorism restrictions demanded by the institutions make it unable to accept their funds.
The Ford Foundation now bars recipients of its funds from engaging in any activity that promotes violence, terrorism, bigotry, or the destruction of any state.
The Rockefeller Foundation’ provisions state that recipients of its funds may not directly or indirectly engage in, promote, or support other organizations or individuals who engage in or promote terrorist activity.
#2. The ACLU supports child **** distribution and child molesters like NAMBLA.
As legislative counsel for the ACLU in 1985, Barry Lynn told the U.S. Attorney General’ Commission on Pornography (of which Focus on the Family President Dr. James C. Dobson was a member) that child pornography was protected by the First Amendment. While production of child **** could be prevented by law, he argued, its distribution could not be.
There is no doubt the The ACLU are perverting the Constitution.
#1. The ACLU fufills its agenda using my tax money. What more can I say on this one?
There are countless reasons the ACLU needs to be stopped. So don’t just stand by and complain, do something. Get involved. Here are some ways you can get involved to help us stop the ACLU.
Support and donate to organizations fighting them in Court. Here are the ones at the forefront.
ACLJ
Alliance Defense Fund
Thomas More Law Center
Join the Stop The ACLU Coalition
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