Should they take down the War Memorial Cross?

[ogre]

pretty much sums it up, huh?

 

[Strife]

Funny how we here at the board are doing exactly what lawyers would do in court battles. Discrediting the opposing party.

The real issue is.... Does one religious symbol(regardless of when erected) on government property violate the constitution?

If you are in trouble(AJ is good example) or feel like your rights are violated... Who would you try to have represent you? The best possible representation you can find/afford! That is the case here. Plain and simple. Yes they have good and bad aspects,but they the most qualified to get the job done.

Feel its wrong..sign the petition,but don't do it cause of representation. Do it cause you deep down feel it's within the constitution that one specific religious symbol is OK to represent a time where many religions have taking place in the set war. And is OK for the government to condone it. Eliminate ACLU and you own personal religion beliefs out of the factor and research for yourself whether it violates. Yes many feel "leave it be it's already done",but when is it to late to change a mistake?

Again I am pointing out that it does not bother me if it stay or goes!

 

[TruWrecks]

I think most people forget that this country was founded by a christian population. They wrote many religious beliefs into the charter.

Just because the USA welcomes anybody, including their religion, doesn't mean they have to right to change it once they are here. There are many countries that are centric to different religions. They are free to leave for a country that better suites their beliefs.

 

[Strife]

In this case,they are not trying to change it. They are trying to correct a possible violation.

And yes... If they are a US citizen,they have the right to ask for change.

If what you say is the case. Slavery would still be an ongoing issue. Women(who've been part of this countries creation,Christian women) wouldn't have the rights they do today... I'd go on,but think those two examples cover my point enough.

Remember we are really to true outsiders. The American Indians were the original owners of this land. Look how they ended up being treated. Couple small patches of land they can call their own. WE took what we wanted cause we didn't like where we were. This was all after we were welcomed. We ended up taking advantage of that.

Declaration of independence was July 4th 1776(like we don't know that). Indians started to get rights around 1830(nice gap huh?) then 1851(whoa took them 21yrs to get recognized) they had the ability to have legal borders set. However they were pretty much confined to these borders. Dawes act of 1887. Various things changed all the way up until the 1983(Ronald Reagan was in office). Still things are being changed.

Point of that little history jumbo is that "We" the United States Of America do make changes many years after the fact. You might say "Well look at how they were treated". "That change was good". Yeah that's right.

 

[chrisjp]

This one I will argue. The 1st amendment doesn't provide for separation of church and state.



The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion. This does not prohibit the display of a religous symbol on Goverment property


Thomas Jefferson introduces the separation of Church and State here, once again to reenforce that the Government needs to be kept out of the Church. There is no mention that the Church needs to be kept out of the Government.

I think the argument that a cross on a war memorial is the Goverment showing preference to one religion is very weak at best. What it comes down to is a small minority demonstraiting their intolerance of others.

i dissagree thomas makeing the statment "thus putting a wall (symbollic of incrossible) between church and state" its real easy to see that the "wall" not only keeps out but keeps in. many goverments have had religion entertwined in goverment. all have failed misserably. lets let the simplicity of the first amendment stand firm. those who did not want that memorial in its form errected in 1939 needed to protest it and come to a agreement then...to go almost 70 years then to say "woah this offends" is wrong..its established as a entity...just choose to more uhhh "politcaly correct" in the future if you truely feels it offends...or shell out your own damn cash aclu to errect a new one for them...commie bastads you are.

 

[chrisjp]

BW

Where in any post do you see anyone saying religious symbols should be banned? In fact the lawsuit is not even saying that.

How is your right to freedom of religion in any way infringed upon by either of the following:

1) The absence of all religious symbols on federal property.

2) The presence of religious symbols of all faiths represented on federal property

3) The removial of a religious symbol from federal property.

Lastly please reference one piece of credable documentation citing any support to the notion that: "the ACLU is saying that the Government needs to sanction athieism as the National religion of the United States".

has anyone seen symbols of satanism on federal property...it is a established religion.? jjust playing devils advicate...lol

 

[Poppy]

Christian Nation? Maybe not......some good reading if interested?

The Christian Nation Myth

 

[99'busa]

I think most people forget that this country was founded by a christian population. They wrote many religious beliefs into the charter.

Just because the USA welcomes anybody, including their religion, doesn't mean they have to right to change it once they are here. There are many countries that are centric to different religions. They are free to leave for a country that better suites their beliefs.

Good point.

Facts to remember...

1. God DOES exist
2. Jesus IS his son
3. we will ALL meet him as proof someday
4. every breath we take is because HE allowed it...PERIOD

We can kick and scream and get as mad as we want but it won't change a THING. The sky is still blue, the sun will still come up in the east, and we're all still gonna die.

These are the facts no matter how bad you don't agree with it or like it.





























and red and white are still the fastest colors

 

[red1100cc]

well someone tore it down. wonder if it will be put back up?

 

[S4L]

I'll admit I don't know all the details of every case the ACLU has chose to represent, however the MAJORITY of the cases from Christians do appear to be turned down. Would you like me to begin posting the many examples of where Christians have been turned down? Which I'm sure since you were quick to do your research on who had been represented, feel free to research all the ones that have been turned down (a simple search on Google). Here are just a few additional reasons that personally I don't see the value this organization adds to America (posted on Stormfront):

10. The ACLU was founded by Communist, with communist ideals, communist goals, and they continue to impose a Communist like agenda on America daily. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin stated clearly…

My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemploymentTherefo re, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself. I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

As a Christian - can you tell me what it is about Communism that is "evil"?

And so they turned down a few Christians. Did you ever stop and think, WHY did they turn these people down? Maybe because, like some of you, they believe that the vast majority of Christians in this country are somehow losing all of their rights?

9. The ACLU does not believe in the Second Amendment.
ACLU POLICY. The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court’slong-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms. ACLU Policy #47

An interesting view point, I disagree with it, but I am surprised Christians are in disagreement with it.

#8. Their outright hatred of the Boyscouts. They are currently doing everything in their power to hurt this organization. They attacked their free speech right to exclude gays, and are threatening schools, and fighting in court to get their charters shut down. The oppose the military supporting them, and will sue the pants off any school that attempts to charter them.

The boyscouts have been known to be a pretty horrible organization to minorites. They embody hatred and bigotry - I commend the ACLU for this.

#7. The ACLU are pro-death. Not only is the ACLU Pro-abortion, it’s the ACLU’s top priority. It most definitely takes a backseat to free speech for the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the ACLU has fought against the free speech rights of those that oppose it. If its abortion or euthanasia, as long as its pro-death you can count on the ACLU to support it. The only exception to the ACLU’s pro-death stance, is if it is a convicted criminal; in this case they are against death.

I'm sorry, does the ACLU stand for the CIVIL LIBERTIES union? Or am I misinformed. I think I should have the right to die a dignified death - however I see that fit, so long as it doesn't harm you.

#6. The ACLU advocate open borders. Not only have the ACLU opposed the Minute Men, a group who are simply exercizing their freedom of speech, protesting and stepping up where the government is failing, but they have helped illegals cross the border.

I know nothing about the Minute Men, however, so far this list of "atrocities" has me skeptical to say the least.

#5. The ACLU is anti-Christian. The list is endless on this one. Under the guise of "seperation of Church and State", the ACLU have made a name for theirself on being rabidly anti-Christian. This is one area where they are most hypocritical. They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. They are against Christianity in school, but oddly remain silent as our children are taught to be Muslims. Whether its baby Jesus, ten commandments, or tiny crosses on county seals, the ACLU will be there to secularize America, and rewrite our history.

So far the only anti-Christian stance I see is the fight for pro-choice, rather than pro-life. I think it is funny that by standing up for minorities, or for simply standing up for a person's freedoms - they are labeled "Anti Christian."

I am against the tax exemptions on churches as well, but if you are going to give them, why are Wiccans excluded?

#4. The ACLU Opposes National Security. The ACLU have opposed almost every effort in the arena of national security. From the bird flu to bag searches, the ACLU have been against it. No matter what kind of search someone tries to do to protect people, the ACLU have proved they are against them across the board. Its kind of ironic that they don’t practice the principles they preach.

Take a walk into the NYCLU's Manhattan headquarters - which it shares with other organizations - and you?ll find a sign warning visitors that all bags are subject to search.

Again, I am skeptical, nor do I have the will to research this matter. I can see them taking a stance against the intrusion into a person's privacy however. I do think our "national security" is a little overzealous. Hey, I have an idea. Stop pattin' my crotch and focus on the NO EFFIN' FLY LIST.

#3. The ACLU Defend the enemy. They have a long history of this one. They defended the P.L.O. in 1985. They defended Quadafi in the 1980’s. And they continue today. They have told Gitmo detainees they have the right to remain silent, as in not talking to interrogators. One issue that really disturbs me is their refusal of funds from organizations such as the United Way that were concerned the money would be used to support terrorism.

In October of 2004, the ACLU turned down $1.15 million in funding from two of it's most generous and loyal contributors, the Ford and Rockefeller foundations, saying new anti-terrorism restrictions demanded by the institutions make it unable to accept their funds.
The Ford Foundation now bars recipients of its funds from engaging in any activity that promotes violence, terrorism, bigotry, or the destruction of any state.

The Rockefeller Foundation’ provisions state that recipients of its funds may not directly or indirectly engage in, promote, or support other organizations or individuals who engage in or promote terrorist activity.

Huh?

#2. The ACLU supports child **** distribution and child molesters like NAMBLA.
As legislative counsel for the ACLU in 1985, Barry Lynn told the U.S. Attorney General’ Commission on Pornography (of which Focus on the Family President Dr. James C. Dobson was a member) that child pornography was protected by the First Amendment. While production of child **** could be prevented by law, he argued, its distribution could not be.
There is no doubt the The ACLU are perverting the Constitution.

Again, so far I am skeptical...

#1. The ACLU fufills its agenda using my tax money. What more can I say on this one?
There are countless reasons the ACLU needs to be stopped. So don’t just stand by and complain, do something. Get involved. Here are some ways you can get involved to help us stop the ACLU.

Support and donate to organizations fighting them in Court. Here are the ones at the forefront.

ACLJ
Alliance Defense Fund
Thomas More Law Center
Join the Stop The ACLU Coalition

Did you really READ this garbage before posting it? I don't care about the ACLU, but this post has shown me nothing but a strong flavor of biased BS.

 

[4HSMEN]

I am an Atheist. I am not afraid of Crosses, Star of David etc etc.
As long as they are privately funded on Private property, who cares.
No harm done. Pray as you wish just stay away from my door or my laws.

 

[skydivr]

I am an Atheist. I am not afraid of Crosses, Star of David etc etc.
As long as they are privately funded on Private property, who cares.
No harm done. Pray as you wish just stay away from my door or my laws.

So, if you are athiest and don't believe in God, then why does this trouble you so? Does it hurt you in any way that those who put this cross there, MANY years ago, do believe?

I wonder why those who say they don't believe would care an any way as it should be a non-issue for them...

 

[4HSMEN]

So, if you are athiest and don't believe in God, then why does this trouble you so? Does it hurt you in any way that those who put this cross there, MANY years ago, do believe?

I wonder why those who say they don't believe would care an any way as it should be a non-issue for them...

Reread what I wrote, take a deep breath and please explain to me why I seem troubled. Perhaps I did not write my post clearly.

 

[skydivr]

Ok, I took a breath and counted to 10. You are correct sir you did not, in the previous post, say anything to deserve my response. My apologies.

 

[Big Bo]

No they should not take down the Memorial.

I am sick and tired of the PC croud. They can kiss my

 

[cqt1414]

Did you really READ this garbage before posting it?

S4L, what a coin-een-see-dence. I was gonna axe-u tha same thang`

 

[afterhours]

I love how some people call obeying the Constitution....being PC.

Is protection from illegal searches PC also?

 

[S4L]

S4L, what a coin-een-see-dence. I was gonna axe-u tha same thang`

So taking that post at face value... You want me to believe that the ACLU is a communist/socialist led, propagandizing, terrorist-supporting, abortionist, anti-Christian, hate machine? I mean, who can hate the boyscouts!? (Simply ask any minority that has ever tried to actually join their ranks).

Did I miss anything? I'm sorry, I must of missed the part where it tells me who is the anti-Christ, where is the mark of the beast, and when Jesus will be coming back

If you believe that BS, you probably believe that aliens are a gov't conspiracy, Obama is a Kenyan, Bush is the last knight of the crusades, what other garbage am I missing?

It is funny how many nasty words can be thrown at an organization that is simply DEFENDING INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHTS NO MATTER RACE, COLOR, CREED, ETHNICITY, SOCIAL STATUS, OR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

You may not agree with their stance, but they are doing nothing wrong. This reminds me of all the public outrage when a few atheist groups put billboards up and signs on buses, people got all pissy. Could you imagine if I funded a giant statue on gov't property that depicted Charles Darwin as God? OHO the double standards. I love 'em

 

[4HSMEN]

Bush is NOT the last knight of the crusades?

 

[red1100cc]

No they should not take down the Memorial.

I am sick and tired of the PC croud. They can kiss my

too late, recheck the link