I removed them. There were a couple of posts in the thread from members that the pics weren't appropriate for the site, so I didn't feel the need to repeat that in a PM.
The censorship on this board is appalling
- Thread starter outofmyway
- Start date
I am one of the most liberal, open-minded guys on this forum. I am extremely anti-censorship on all fronts.
Having said that, to open a thread like, "the censorship on this board is appalling" is a gross misstatement. If you took the time to get into and understand the culture of Hayabusa.org, you wouldn't through out such an indictment to a privately owned motorcycle forum. Ther are plenty of forums out there where "f" words abound and female skin is aplenty. I enjoy the scrutiny and standards applied to this board as I'm sure most of us do, I too, have two daughters that often sit with me at the computer. Hayabusa.org has established itself as a great location with quality oversight from the Administrators.
What should happen BEFORE criticism occurs is....relationships and understanding must develop over time....it clearly did not in this case.
Respectfully, Raydog
Having said that, to open a thread like, "the censorship on this board is appalling" is a gross misstatement. If you took the time to get into and understand the culture of Hayabusa.org, you wouldn't through out such an indictment to a privately owned motorcycle forum. Ther are plenty of forums out there where "f" words abound and female skin is aplenty. I enjoy the scrutiny and standards applied to this board as I'm sure most of us do, I too, have two daughters that often sit with me at the computer. Hayabusa.org has established itself as a great location with quality oversight from the Administrators.
What should happen BEFORE criticism occurs is....relationships and understanding must develop over time....it clearly did not in this case.
Respectfully, Raydog
Ladies and gentlemen, I am already in a dialog with Outofmyway on this. First, for all:
it doesn't do any good to compare this to other forums for content control - there are several things that I wouldn't post here that I have posted on other forums, because of the intended audience(s).
Also, we have very few women riders here - why? I am glad that you asked:
A because as soon as a woman's profile shows up - the sharks start circling! What message do some of these threads send to new members, especially women?
Everytime, there has been even a backlash of pics of scantily clad men for the women to admire, some men have gone up in arms about how this is a motorcycle forum and there is no place for pics of scantily clad people unless there is a bike that is involved.
Which has been one of the rules... posing with a bike is one thing...
In addition, I assume that the subject pics are tastetful - problem is that it only takes a couple of posts before the pics get less and less tasteful...
More later - but we don't see everything and in this case I didn't. There is no instant replay - I support what the mods/admins did; I just don't know the specifics...
but, again - for all - if you see a pic that you think is over the line - report it and it will be individually evaluated... usually by more than one of us.
it doesn't do any good to compare this to other forums for content control - there are several things that I wouldn't post here that I have posted on other forums, because of the intended audience(s).
Also, we have very few women riders here - why? I am glad that you asked:
A because as soon as a woman's profile shows up - the sharks start circling! What message do some of these threads send to new members, especially women?
Everytime, there has been even a backlash of pics of scantily clad men for the women to admire, some men have gone up in arms about how this is a motorcycle forum and there is no place for pics of scantily clad people unless there is a bike that is involved.
Which has been one of the rules... posing with a bike is one thing...
In addition, I assume that the subject pics are tastetful - problem is that it only takes a couple of posts before the pics get less and less tasteful...
More later - but we don't see everything and in this case I didn't. There is no instant replay - I support what the mods/admins did; I just don't know the specifics...
but, again - for all - if you see a pic that you think is over the line - report it and it will be individually evaluated... usually by more than one of us.
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Thank you for making my point...
While I may not agree with you, I'm certainly not going to tell you how to run your business.
Much like Captain running this website...he sets the rules, we follow them.
I dont mind censorship, i have had a few things removed myself, i think it was mc that did it...but he did pm me and explain it to me, so i wrote back and thanked him and apologized...after all we all really are just guests here...but i also agree anything you would normally see in public should be ok here.. i posted pictures of hooters girls many times, but they where all in thier normal work clothes and sitting on bikes at bike night...either way id love to see what you had...guess i could pm you with my email add...lol i think its a well run site we all agree about 85% of the time, and we all look out for eachother..i dont see any real comrodery on other sites, so eveyryone here still feels like family...
outofmyway
Registered
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So let me address this one....
I have been the owner of this site for 10 years, trust me when I say rules are made for those people that cross the line... Is every pic of a woman in a bikini inappropriate? The answer is simply no.
HOWEVER
In 10 years I have seen this very situation happen over and over at least 200 times. One person post a pic of a bikini, it starts off innocent enough, before too long someone just can't refrain and they post up pics of the same girl wearing a bikini but stretched out across a busa assuming the position, the pic after that is the same girl in the same position on her tiptoes turning her head all the way around licking her lips...
My personal opinion with the problem with America is that we have forgotten how to be respectful and know when we are offending someone else, no personal accountability. It is not my responsibility or right to control what your kids see, frankly that is your problem not mine. This site started off as a hobby site for me, I spend at least 40 hours a week here and when MY kids walk into the office or look over my shoulder I don't want to have to explain to them what they see. I want my 8 yr old to know that his dad is respectful and as he grows he will learn about control. I can't preach to my 15 yr old that he shouldn't look at pornography and at the same time have him look over MY shoulder and see the pic above. Tell yourself that all bikini shots are innocent and you are just kidding yourself. They can be as suggestive as any full naked pic and you can try to rationalize that to yourself all day long but in the end the same message is transferred.
Those are the rules that I put into place many years ago to protect and shield my family from those types of images. We put those rules into play so that members could participate on the forums when at work knowing that they would not have anything to explain away to a boss or coworker. Interestingly enough I have had thousands of people tell me over the years that is what they like about Hayabusa.org, we are different. You hit the nail on the head that you have posted pictures just like this on other sites without any problems at all.
I am amazed that people come to Hayabusa.org and will make comments on the super friendly people here, the mature conversations and that this place is different but when they run across something they disagree with the first thing that comes out of their mouth is censorship and freedom of speech. You like it here but yet want this place to allow the same garbage that other sites allow. What one thing can you contribute the relationships and friendships that have been made other than to say it was the atmosphere of the forum.
I have no problems telling people why we don't allow those types of images here on the site, I am proud to say that we do not allow this activity and I believe it keeps us on track.
You can go to so many other sites and post those pics why do you feel that it is such an outrage that they are not allowed here? Call me a prude, tell us that we censor to much, tell me that I'm not a real man because I don't allow those types of pictures, I can handle it...
My number one conviction in this world is to be a good father to my children, as much time as I spend online my kids come in and see my screen. What type of hypocritical father would I be if I allowed it here and preached to them otherwise?
Regardless if you like the reasoning or accept it I set those rules into place 10 years ago and the site has done well.
If you have other questions ask them in an open forum if you like or you can send me a PM.....
In the end of it all people just can't control themselves and the bikini threads always escalate to being out of control. Experience tells us to deal with it quickly and make them go away.
Cap
I have been the owner of this site for 10 years, trust me when I say rules are made for those people that cross the line... Is every pic of a woman in a bikini inappropriate? The answer is simply no.
HOWEVER
In 10 years I have seen this very situation happen over and over at least 200 times. One person post a pic of a bikini, it starts off innocent enough, before too long someone just can't refrain and they post up pics of the same girl wearing a bikini but stretched out across a busa assuming the position, the pic after that is the same girl in the same position on her tiptoes turning her head all the way around licking her lips...
My personal opinion with the problem with America is that we have forgotten how to be respectful and know when we are offending someone else, no personal accountability. It is not my responsibility or right to control what your kids see, frankly that is your problem not mine. This site started off as a hobby site for me, I spend at least 40 hours a week here and when MY kids walk into the office or look over my shoulder I don't want to have to explain to them what they see. I want my 8 yr old to know that his dad is respectful and as he grows he will learn about control. I can't preach to my 15 yr old that he shouldn't look at pornography and at the same time have him look over MY shoulder and see the pic above. Tell yourself that all bikini shots are innocent and you are just kidding yourself. They can be as suggestive as any full naked pic and you can try to rationalize that to yourself all day long but in the end the same message is transferred.
Those are the rules that I put into place many years ago to protect and shield my family from those types of images. We put those rules into play so that members could participate on the forums when at work knowing that they would not have anything to explain away to a boss or coworker. Interestingly enough I have had thousands of people tell me over the years that is what they like about Hayabusa.org, we are different. You hit the nail on the head that you have posted pictures just like this on other sites without any problems at all.
I am amazed that people come to Hayabusa.org and will make comments on the super friendly people here, the mature conversations and that this place is different but when they run across something they disagree with the first thing that comes out of their mouth is censorship and freedom of speech. You like it here but yet want this place to allow the same garbage that other sites allow. What one thing can you contribute the relationships and friendships that have been made other than to say it was the atmosphere of the forum.
I have no problems telling people why we don't allow those types of images here on the site, I am proud to say that we do not allow this activity and I believe it keeps us on track.
You can go to so many other sites and post those pics why do you feel that it is such an outrage that they are not allowed here? Call me a prude, tell us that we censor to much, tell me that I'm not a real man because I don't allow those types of pictures, I can handle it...
My number one conviction in this world is to be a good father to my children, as much time as I spend online my kids come in and see my screen. What type of hypocritical father would I be if I allowed it here and preached to them otherwise?
Regardless if you like the reasoning or accept it I set those rules into place 10 years ago and the site has done well.
If you have other questions ask them in an open forum if you like or you can send me a PM.....
In the end of it all people just can't control themselves and the bikini threads always escalate to being out of control. Experience tells us to deal with it quickly and make them go away.
Cap
slash
Registered
outofmyway
Registered
Let first start off by saying I respect the hard work you put into this place, and will abide by the rules you have set. But as you said in your post, this is a place for mature and respectful conversation, so with that in mind, DO NOT disrespect my work without having seen them, by referring to my work as garbage. You are doing the very thing you preach against.
I do not agree with SOME aspects of your idealogy (it reminds me of a movie called Footloose where they banned dancing because one person believed that dancing leads to corruption based on his observation), it's a free country. But i will stay within the confines of the rules you set because this is your house.
I have to agree with Dino on this one!
If any admin deletes a thread for any reason, dropping the OP a note saying the thread was removed along with an explanation is the proper and courteous thing to do!
I have a feeling the thread was preceived as being an advertisement?
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dragonbusa
Registered
cap Im, glad I read your responce before i stuck my nose in, I think you were right on. If i want to see chicks on the web theres plenty of it in other places
Here is where things get sticky... Without putting any words or thoughts into your post this is what my perception is...
It appears to me that you think that pictures you call art is what I call soft pornography, this is a perfect example of what happens all over the country every day.
One person thinks its innocent enough to shoot the bird in a car, the person receiving the finger isnt very pleased because their kid saw it too.
One person thinks that soft **** is Okay because the Europeans do it all the time, others think that Europe is screwed up...
One person thinks that children should be able to drink beer because the Germans do it, other people think that it's child endangerment.
I think that what I am trying to get across is that you first have to define what is and is not acceptable, people have lost common sense and either refuse or unable to make a decision on what is an is not acceptable on their own. There have been and always will be those that don't care of just don't have the capacity to do the right thing...
If you read my previous post you will see that I did say that not all pics of bikinis are bad, but it is definately the catalyst to start those people who don't see the limits an avenue to proceed.
As far as notification to people anytime a thread is removed, there are 14 moderators on the site and literally thousands of post every single day. We don't have the time to send a PM every time we do something, if you know the rules and your post is on the line then you should know why it was removed, there isnt a lot of guess work that needs to be done.
As I wrote in the Random Pics thread, the photos (which personally I thought were nice - though probably over the line for this venue) seemed they may be inappropriate not necessarily because they were girls in swimsuits who appeared to be modeling swimwear (borderline acceptability), but because the poses, heavy makeup, and backgrounds ultimately communicated a very seedy, strip club setting.
The photos communicated something completely different than swimwear, and that is where the problem was.
There are places where these images can be posted freely. This forum isn't one of them.
Best wishes with your business.
The photos communicated something completely different than swimwear, and that is where the problem was.
There are places where these images can be posted freely. This forum isn't one of them.
Best wishes with your business.
I left and went back to watch football and I came back because I want to make sure that I got this message across.
There are guys on this site that I disagree with all the time. There are guys that have beliefs that I don't agree with but you know what in the end we are all friends and we are able to put those things we disagree on aside to have other conversations.
My father and I are a good example, we don't always agree on topics, the direction of the country, my future, the kids but that doesn't effect the relationship we have at all. We know there are just some things that I won't budge on and the same for him. I don't think that there is one single person on this site that I couldn't sit down with and laugh, drink a beer and have a great ride with.
What I think the site has lost over the past couple of years is the willingness to not post or do something that the poster knew would really offend someone. Isn't that the way that friends are supposed to act? If you know that something is offense to a friend you wouldn't normally talk that way or act that way in front of them out of respect for the friend and friendship. People just don't care anymore and think that there is no accountability on the Internet. I have said it over and over, if you participate on this site then one day you will attend an event and stand before those people you spit on......
We have tried to be consistant over the years, the same images that were taken down this week would have been taken down 10 years ago too....
CAp
There are guys on this site that I disagree with all the time. There are guys that have beliefs that I don't agree with but you know what in the end we are all friends and we are able to put those things we disagree on aside to have other conversations.
My father and I are a good example, we don't always agree on topics, the direction of the country, my future, the kids but that doesn't effect the relationship we have at all. We know there are just some things that I won't budge on and the same for him. I don't think that there is one single person on this site that I couldn't sit down with and laugh, drink a beer and have a great ride with.
What I think the site has lost over the past couple of years is the willingness to not post or do something that the poster knew would really offend someone. Isn't that the way that friends are supposed to act? If you know that something is offense to a friend you wouldn't normally talk that way or act that way in front of them out of respect for the friend and friendship. People just don't care anymore and think that there is no accountability on the Internet. I have said it over and over, if you participate on this site then one day you will attend an event and stand before those people you spit on......
We have tried to be consistant over the years, the same images that were taken down this week would have been taken down 10 years ago too....
CAp
slash
Registered
you are blowing this WAY out of purportion.
this forum belongs to someone and that person will set rules and if i don't like it i will take my business somewhere else. i have had my share of taking out pics or comments here in the past, i respected that and moved on and tried to be more careful before i make wrong comments or pictures. it is not a big deal...it is like any other businesses.
remember..things that might be tasteful to your eyes might not be to someone else!
remember..things that might be tasteful to your eyes might not be to someone else!
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outofmyway
Registered
First off, the action of shooting a bird at someone in public is actually illegal in most states, whether officers of the law choose to enforce is a whole other matter, so yes it is offensive. Yet this does not stop people from posting pictures of such action.
Second, there is no law anywhere in the U.S. against wearing a swimsuit in public (by public, it means people of ALL ages). Before you jump, I did not say it would be appropriet anywhere and regardless of the circumstance (but that can be said of all kinds of attire). It maybe frown upon but NOT illegal. You are making an assumption that as soon a tastefull picture of a girl in a swimsuit appears on the forum that it would degrade to filth by members of this board. What does that say about the quality of the members of this board, what does it say about your view of the members of this board.
In you selection of what is appropriat and what is not, you choose to allow something that is actually against the law to be displayed for the amusement of the members. But not something that is publically acceptable.
As I said, I can not agree with your general assumption of what you believe may happen as a result of posting certain images. I will not post any of my photos now or in the future. Those of you who are interested in seeing them can find them in Hooter's magazine/calendar, ESPN's The Best Damn Sports show, Cosmo.
Missed the pix, so I really can't say 
, but Shawn has PM'd you about this, and I was wondering why you didn't just shoot an admin that was on-line a PM. No problem with this thread either, just my way of handling these things. I often shoot one of these folks a PM. Doesn't always go my way, but I respect these folks.
Posted up a pic of my significant other once in a thread about significant others. It was from the neck up and was deleted. I posted it right back up. I know it stayed in there for a while after that. It's situation dependent. Good luck with it.
, but Shawn has PM'd you about this, and I was wondering why you didn't just shoot an admin that was on-line a PM. No problem with this thread either, just my way of handling these things. I often shoot one of these folks a PM. Doesn't always go my way, but I respect these folks.Posted up a pic of my significant other once in a thread about significant others. It was from the neck up and was deleted. I posted it right back up. I know it stayed in there for a while after that. It's situation dependent. Good luck with it.
No person is vulnurable to arrest in VT for nudity.
Burlington, Vermont - June 9, 2006
This may come as a surprise to many people, but if you wanted to bike, roller blade, stroll or sunbathe on the Burlington bike path in the buff-- it's perfectly legal.
Phinneas Sosin expects 100 bicyclists will join him for the second annual bike ride through Burlington to protest energy policies-- all of them completely naked.
"The parts of the nakedness, I believe, is a real symbol against commercialism," says Sosin.
"Simply the fact that you're unclothed is not against the law," says Bill Sorrell, D-Vt. Attorney General.
Sorrell says there is no Vermont law that prohibits public nudity, unless you're a flasher.
"When you're dealing with a flasher, they're doing something that's open and grossly lewd specifically for sexual gratification," explains Burlington Police Lt. Mike Schirling.
"I can't imagine it's very much fun to ride a bike nude, or roller blade in the rain nude, but you're not gonna end up in jail for simply doing it," says Sorrell.
Burlington, Vermont - June 9, 2006
This may come as a surprise to many people, but if you wanted to bike, roller blade, stroll or sunbathe on the Burlington bike path in the buff-- it's perfectly legal.
Phinneas Sosin expects 100 bicyclists will join him for the second annual bike ride through Burlington to protest energy policies-- all of them completely naked.
"The parts of the nakedness, I believe, is a real symbol against commercialism," says Sosin.
"Simply the fact that you're unclothed is not against the law," says Bill Sorrell, D-Vt. Attorney General.
Sorrell says there is no Vermont law that prohibits public nudity, unless you're a flasher.
"When you're dealing with a flasher, they're doing something that's open and grossly lewd specifically for sexual gratification," explains Burlington Police Lt. Mike Schirling.
"I can't imagine it's very much fun to ride a bike nude, or roller blade in the rain nude, but you're not gonna end up in jail for simply doing it," says Sorrell.
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