Time to do away with the Electoral College...

[Revlis]

So it's better to screw millions of voters out of their ability to elect a leader?       

For instance, you mention Minorities not having a fair vote?  How so?  

I don't understand how you can say the voter are getting screwed out of the ability to elect a leader.  EVERY vote counts.  Remember Florida 4 years ago when they counted everything over again?  Each one of those votes that got counted again mattered.  Every One.  Just because your candidate doesn't win doesn't mean your vote was wasted.

As far as the minority votes making a difference, I got this from the link above.
The Electoral College actually enhances the status of minority groups. This is so because the voters of even small minorities in a State may make the difference between winning all of that State's electoral votes or none of that State's electoral votes. And since ethnic minority groups in the United States happen to concentrate in those State with the most electoral votes, they assume an importance to presidential candidates well out of proportion to their number. The same principle applies to other special interest groups such as labor unions, farmers, environmentalists, and so forth.
So, EVERY vote counts.

Umm... NO.

I think your missing the point entirely. This year in Florida, roughly 3.5 million Florida Democrats got told that their vote for President meant NOTHING. The concept is simple. Say 3.5 mil voted for Kerry, 3.8mil voted for Bush. (Example) So basically what happens now is that the EC Casts ALL of Florida's Electoral Votes For Bush. So basically, because of 300K votes, Florida is now a "Republican State" and ALL of the EC votes go one way, rendering 3.2mill democratic supporters "Voiceless" and powerless to say who they want for president in a very real sense. The EC renders almost half the states votes for president moot.

Just because your candidate doesn't win doesn't mean your vote was wasted.[/QUOTE] Actually with the EC it trully does. Your vote no longer carries any weight, any real power. The EC decides who is president, NOT popular vote. If the Presidency was decided Via Pop Vote, the 3.3 million in Minority here in Florida would still count and be added to the 4.5Mil (Est) in California and not just evaporate. Meaning that the john Q public still has the power and every vote counts.

And since ethnic minority groups in the United States happen to concentrate in those State with the most electoral votes, they assume an importance to presidential candidates well out of proportion to their number. The same principle applies to other special interest groups such as labor unions, farmers, environmentalists, and so forth.[/QUOTE]

And this would be the perfect reason TO Get RID OF THE EC Think about what is said here, basically that smaller groups end up with power WAY beyond their numbers... WTF? Special interest groups? Unions? Minorities? These groups deserve some extra SAY in who the next president is? I don't think so... ONE Citizen ONE VOTE... The Nation as a whole should be able to speak, no ones vote get swept under the carpet, no "Special Groups" holding sway over the presidency... One Citizen one vote, across the board.

Lets think about this for a minute. Lets really look at the Minority Vote in South, a vast majority of whom tend to vote democrat. Look at the states in the South where a Minority voice got heard by the EC... Yup NONE, It's Bullsh!t. Every single Southern State cast ALL their EC votes for Bush. This is what I am talking about, in a popular vote all those voices would carry equal and real political power. Would it have made a difference this election? No, but it's coming...

When the best America has to offer is a Bumbling Texas Jerkoff or some Buckethead Liberal Billionaire, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs... and it leads to close elections, the EC is eventually going to step on it's poncho strings and the country is going to be in trouble.

 

[flynjay]

An added point.....

If every Americian knew their vote could/would have an effect on the out come of a popular voted election, the voter turn out would probably be higher than this country has ever seen.

Then there is no question that every group would be represented. Every voter in every state would be important.


If the EC is not going away, then the EC should vote the true ratio the state casts.

Example:
State "X" has 50 EC votes
The state population votes 60% Rep / 40% Dem
Then the EC should vote 30 Rep / 20 Dem

Then the EC will truely reflect the popular vote.

Jay

 

[Narcissus]

Our country (Federalism) is based on checks and balances. The electoral college serves a purpose. Often times, I find that those who complain about the system, have never actually studied it.

I would begin by reading and examining the Constitution, then going through the Federalist Papers.

Reading is usually too hard to do, though.

On a another note, I still believe that I run my life, not the President. Casting a vote and then praying things turn out well for four years does not make any sense. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[Big O]

I still don't believe your vote is wasted.

But I see your point...

 

[Revlis]

I still don't believe your vote is wasted.  

But I see your point...

Fair Enough Bro, jsut remember that I'm Pessimistic, Argumentative, and Opinionated... So it's allways possible that I am completely full of Shid...

 

[Big O]

If you guys move to SF we'll have to get together in Laguna and discuss other topics too. Over a few beers.

 

[bacharles]

Well, as Rev's running mate in the 2008 election, I have a few opinions on this issue myself.  It's amazing that people continue to overlook what is actually happening in this country.  All politics is is expensive ass popularity contests.  Basically it's like running for the Miss America crown, but on a slightly more sophisticated level.  The thing that hurts our country the most is the fact that we are so divided.  And the division lies in the fact that you are either a Democrat or a Republican.  I'm not going to count the "others" because there numbers aren't significant enough to truly make a resounding difference.  It's really senseless to divide people in this way and in the same breath make promises and vows to bring our country as a people together.  Through no fault of the individual politician is this the reason for this problem, because it's been the basis of what this country is all about.  There is entirely too much vested interest in things of this world to keep a politician totally honest.  If you think about for a minute... what percentage of the people actually knows what the issues are and what their candidate truly stands for?  I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people can only elaborate on Kerry's lack of leadership or Bush's propensity to make what he's doing totally justifiable.  So getting rid of the electoral college will be a positive step, but still more is needed.  Each individual candidate can best express his/her views based solely on what they believe and not the beliefs of his/her party affiliation.  Think about this one for a second.  I was talking to this guy prior to the elections and we were discussing why people vote the way that they do.  He said that he would vote for Bush because Kerry's affiliation with the Democratic party makes him a believer in Abortion Rights.  So I asked him how would he handle the situation if his daughter, who is on scholarship in college, became pregnant?  He became quiet for a second, and got angry for a moment.  Then after a few minutes, he realized what I was getting at.  Point is that people make decisions based solely on there belief in something, but oftentimes our judments and/or decisions can become clouded when certain situations arise that makes doing the right thing... or what we perceive as being the right thing difficult.  Final analysis is that most people will vote with their party affiliation even if Satan himself was running for office.  It's sad to say, but there will always be a division in this country because government puts the instruments on the table for us to use so to speak.  The whole agenda of the political parties are to see who can raise the most money and who can dig up the most dirt on their rivals to gain power.  The media is used as the catalyst to heat everything up, while the people are not being represented in the way that they should be.

I'm Brian Charles and I approve this message...

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[bacharles]

So what do you think Rev. You think we've got a shot?

 

[bacharles]

So what do you think Rev.  You think we've got a shot?

Yeah, we've got a shot alright. A shot in the ass...

 

[bacharles]

It almost seems unfair though. Did any of you guys/gals know this little tidbit? For the 2004 election, the electoral votes held by Florida was 27 as opposed to the 25 it held in the 2000 election. I don't know exactly what the process is for changing those numbers, but I know damn well that the population of Florida didn't rise enough to gain 2 electoral votes. poop, with all the hurricanes, it seems like the population would decrease...

(just pokin' fun...) By raising the electoral votes in Florida... just who do we think that would favor?

Hmmmm! Interesting. Going into the election day, the parties basically know which states that will carry them for the most part. There are only a few critical states that the candidates will be uncertain of, and those are usually the ones that carry the most electoral votes and the ones they usually campaign in the hardest.

 

[Big O]

You get more electoral votes by having an Increase in population.

You are right about the "issues". The media hypes the issues that they think will "sell", trying to make controversy. I wouldn't vote for a candidate that I thought wouldn't be best for the country.

 

[bacharles]

You get more electoral votes by having an Increase in population.  

You are right about the "issues".  The media hypes the issues that they think will "sell", trying to make controversy.  I wouldn't vote for a candidate that I thought wouldn't be best for the country.

That's the EXACT point I was trying to make. Shouldn't matter whether he/she is Democrat or Republican, but who will be best for this country. It's still a complicated issue, but letting people run with their INDIVIDUAL honesty and integrity is a whole lot better. It should be up to some independent group with no vested interest in either candidate to subject the candidate's integrity and honesty to ridicule rather than opposing parties. Entirely too much money passes through this process and at some point the American people will eventually have to foot the bill.

 

[bacharles]

Oh yeah, and I "approve" the previous message also...

 

[bacharles]

Actually the issue concerning the Electoral College is up for debate right now. Heard it on CNN just the other day.

 

[Revlis]

You get more electoral votes by having an Increase in population.  

You are right about the "issues".  The media hypes the issues that they think will "sell", trying to make controversy.  I wouldn't vote for a candidate that I thought wouldn't be best for the country.

That's the EXACT point I was trying to make.  Shouldn't matter whether he/she is Democrat or Republican, but who will be best for this country.  It's still a complicated issue, but letting people run with their INDIVIDUAL honesty and integrity is a whole lot better.  It should be up to some independent group with no vested interest in either candidate to subject the candidate's integrity and honesty to ridicule rather than opposing parties.  Entirely too much money passes through this process and at some point the American people will eventually have to foot the bill.

Yessir, I'm feelin ya. I am with Big O... I won't vote for a candidate that I feel isn't qualified, or will actually do what is best for the COUNTRY. Needless to say I haven't cast a presidential vote in years... I mean should my only basis for my president be his stance on my ability to go out and shoot Watermelons or Pumpkins? What kinda sense does that make?

Brian I am with you on Party politics destroying the Nation. It's going to bring it all down... We have folks voting for a person simply because of party affiliation. Stupid laws and platforms being used to garner votes, regardless of the senseless nature of the platform. It's disturbing the way the press and the media is used to manipulate votes, to target certain voters. It's sad.

Look at the MTV "ROCK THE VOTE" bullshid. You have drug addicts, rapists, and other "Standout Citizens" telling folks to vote, and how to vote. They try to heard up the drooling masses watching MTv to go and vote for candidate X because this X guy is "REALLY DOWN WITH THE YOUTH!"

He he, You have Hollywood... Warped minds twisted around an industry that represents NOTHING but $$$ and privilage. But these folks are with the "Common Man?" WTF?

Party politics lead to devisive thinking, we need to fix it... Find the best conditates based on how THEY feel things should be... Not how the party wants them to be....

I'm With ya Brian...

 

[Mrs. Revlis]

Personally... I think we should elect the president and the vice president separately, not as a matched pair. Could be considerably more interesting that way...

 

[Big O]

Grrrr! The Hollywood types really get me. Look pal, you're an actor/actress...You make fictional movies. Your opinion of who should be President means nothing.
Speaking of actors and the Presidential office...I'm Not in favor of changing a 200 year old law that states you have to be born here to be President just so Aahnald can run. They should think about the long term implications before deciding.

 

[bacharles]

Yeah, so what do you think about our "shot" Rev?

A shot of TEQUILA maybe...??

:::

 

[Revlis]

Yeah, so what do you think about our "shot" Rev?

 A shot of TEQUILA maybe...??  

:::

Yeah About that I think... I have a nasty habit of speaking my mind and telling others when I think they are fuggin ignorant wreches... Not going to get us too far...

I piss off everyone a bit too much...

However... If we are running against the Terminator? I'm betting on us....

I don't think the vast majority of Americans really want things fixed, have reality and truth as a platform... Hell, Most popular shows on TV right now are fuggin "REALITY" programs.... The Masses are begging to be left alone with their pacifiers and security blankets of ignorance.... They don't want truth, they don't want real...

So I dunno B.... Prolly a Shot of Tequila... At best....

 

[bacharles]

Hey Rev, if you move to Cali, then you should run for Governor.

With all the .org members out there you should be a cinch to win...