Timing retard on gen 2
- Thread starter mike miller
- Start date
Misinformation becomes good information if you learn enough.
mike miller
Registered
I'm just gonna leave the bike as is for now. Honestly runs perfect the way I have it setup. The secondaries removed is def a gain in throttle response And power delivery for everyday riding id never put them back in. Maybe tuning them will give the same results but I have no flat spots like some bikes get with them removed so I'll just let it be. I have a good map setup on my pc3 so for now I'm not gonna change it again.
Oh my head hurts ....
Using a TRE to lock the ECU to 5th gear not only messes with the timing map but several other ECU maps. Throttle enrichment, ram air compensation; just to mention a couple. e.g. High RPM 3rd gear starts trending rich (less power).
Removing the secondaries also makes the mid range part throttle rich: the bikes "feels" smooth but is slower. I've seen it hundreds of times on the dyno... plus the added cold start problems....
Using a TRE to lock the ECU to 5th gear not only messes with the timing map but several other ECU maps. Throttle enrichment, ram air compensation; just to mention a couple. e.g. High RPM 3rd gear starts trending rich (less power).
Removing the secondaries also makes the mid range part throttle rich: the bikes "feels" smooth but is slower. I've seen it hundreds of times on the dyno... plus the added cold start problems....
mike miller
Registered
I don't have any cold start issues. And I can say for a fact it's not slower. I have no dyno testing but I do have real world testing as I ride the bike every day of the year almost
mike miller
Registered
I've ridden in 5 degree weather this winter with no cold start issues
mike miller
Registered
I will be taking the bike to the track next month. I'll do a few runs with flies in and few with out just to see what happens. On my zx10 the flies out made a massive difference in power delivery
Mythos
Registered
got me beat. I've gone out in 12 degree weather. Never again. I'll go out in a hundred degree any time and ride for a couple hours. There's just nothing good about cold weather riding except getting from point a to point b.
mike miller
Registered
Well i work at an auto and mc shop so I feel it's my duty to ride rain, shine, small snow etc lol.. I usually ride the zx10 in the nasty weather cause it's easier to clean when I get home..
mike miller
Registered
But I am going to use the busa as a test dummy at the track next month. Flies in and high gain mod. Then do flies out and smart tre reconnected. Id like to see what difference the times will show with each. Sometimes dynos aren't applicable to real life situations so I'm going to experiment
And sometimes operator error and inconsistency from run to run can skew and or throw off the results. A Dyno is a way more accurate tool for measuring differences and set up changes . Launch, rpm,shift points, rider position, weight distribution, etc. can all change reaction times, 60 foot numbers, half track and et. And unless you’ve got a full data logger on the bike you can’t really rely on the results you experience . I didn’t spend almost $50,000 on my Dyno and the room around it for no reason. I’m sorry but your seat of the pants Feelings can’t compare and neither can your results at the track because of the variables involved in my opinion. A dyno is way more accurate. Irregardless , please feel free to share your real world results when you finally get to the track . Good luck.
mike miller
Registered
I'm sure you know your stuff but I don't have access to a dyno to play with so I gotta do it the way I always have with trial and error using track /street tuning. Ive had much success with all my car and mc builds including nitrous and turbo cars/bikes. Might not be the quickest or optimum way of doing it but I like to build and setup all my own stuff, I just have a thing for letting others work on my projects. I may however get the ecu flashing software so I can edit the stp map's once I put them back in because that sounds beneficial. In the end if I can do low 9s or better Im plenty happy with that. I don't weigh much so i think that's doable
POWERHOUSE has the high gain mod plugs in stock, I think we even have the switchable ones, I would have to check. Sixpack, what you said about the STP fueling being set to 100% is not correct. I believe you are referring to the injector balance table. Putting that value in that table would keep the lower injectors on full, the upper injectors would not even fire. Everything else you said is correct.
And Mythos - you don't "set" a TRE to anything, and if you could it wouldn't be sixth gear. A TRE locks the entire ecu into a FIFTH gear map (both ignition and fueling), which is the derestricted one. A TRE sucks, I got four hanging on the wall for the last eight years. Flashing the ecu by someone who knows wtf they are doing is what you want.
Sorry, just trying to keep misinformation to a minimum . . .
I agree, and I don't want to spread disinformation.
Smith game on my pc via internet years back, and set the stp's, opening rate, and fueling, the fueling table was set to 100%, every cell, every gear.
I saved that map.
Obviously I have explained it incorrectly.
This was also a much older version of Ecu Editor. Some settings names have since changed, just like the busa smart tre setting now, that used to be called limiters.
Not arguing, or doubting you.
I'll look at my Ecu Editor later, and come back.
Thanks
mike miller
Registered
I ordered the ecu editor parts last night so I can try out a few things, I'm still going to keep my pc3 since it's set up well but I'll use the editor to change a few things
I agree with SixPack on the STP fueling. The values would be set to 100%, every cell, every gear. They already are except in gears 2 and 3. In this case 100% just means normal fueling. In gears 2-3 some values are less than 100% because the STPs aren't at max stock opening.POWERHOUSE has the high gain mod plugs in stock, I think we even have the switchable ones, I would have to check. Sixpack, what you said about the STP fueling being set to 100% is not correct. I believe you are referring to the injector balance table. Putting that value in that table would keep the lower injectors on full, the upper injectors would not even fire. Everything else you said is correct.
And Mythos - you don't "set" a TRE to anything, and if you could it wouldn't be sixth gear. A TRE locks the entire ecu into a FIFTH gear map (both ignition and fueling), which is the derestricted one. A TRE sucks, I got four hanging on the wall for the last eight years. Flashing the ecu by someone who knows wtf they are doing is what you want.
Sorry, just trying to keep misinformation to a minimum . . .
You wouldn't want the injector balance table set to 100%. This would cause only one set of injectors to do all the work, cutting the fuel available to half
mike miller
Registered
So basically just copy the 4th gear stp map into 2/3?
You can set the fans to come on sooner too if you want. I've always set them to 10 degrees sooner, and never had problem, even riding in below freezing or over 100 degrees F.
1st/5th, to 2,3,4, and 6
Similar threads
