timing retarder question
- Thread starter RJB
- Start date
Why can't we all just get along?? 2busa obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, just overwhelming abundances of incoherent mumbo jumbo, because his mumbo jumbo is connected to his mumbo jumbo....I agree with projekt....c'mon
tourbus
Registered
Ahh c'mon guys i see exactly what 2busa is trying to say, if you reverse the polarity of the the flux capacitor it will trick the stock ecu into thinking that 1.1gigahertz has been down loaded into the battery compartment thus forwarding negative voltage to the fuel injection module. By adding a tre you will trick the ecu bak into thinking that the flux capacitor is putting out 1.0 gigahertz but will inturn put your bike into a negative g spin and cause possible flame out at 6543 rpm's. As far as simply disconnecting the harness you will need 97.5mph to see some serious sh*t instead of 88mph. Thats in a nutshell what i got out of 2busa's ramblings i think he needs a link to the star trek fan club
tourbus, basically you are correct. if a sensor fails, you will see the dash flash a code. be it a neutral light on steady, or a numbered code on the dash; There is a, 'backup' put in play which will keep the bike running.
think ivan woluld tell you the same thing? of course not. this has been his lively hood for the last 7 years. all ivan does is place his 'flux capassator' in-line, spits a code you could have done simply by disconnecting the shift indicator harness, or whatever the tre instructions say to disconnect first. it will spit a code in the ecu, and that's your (same tre) result.
how can i EVEN discuss 'method tuning' when the simple fuel injection basics have yet to be grasped using the tre! you probably never heard of this type (method) practice; Capturing specific codes to use the (backup) ignition advancers inside the ecu = settings in digital modes.
if i were in competition, i'd never reveal this tuning trick. i just don't care who knows about it. i no longer race.... too busted up and too old to compete at the top level. now, you're all on an equal level knowing this little computer tuning trick... it's basically a 7 year old tuning tool.
tin, your're cool.... mr. brown, this stuff is way over your head... i don't expect this stuff to sink in your thick skull at all. look how 7 years flew by and you're still sitting on a ttre-stump, all dayzed-and-confused as the hours click by day after day.
until you fully understand how the tre functions (when it is simply installed), you'll never grasp the harvesting (of a backup) inside the ecu to accomplish this.
think ivan woluld tell you the same thing? of course not. this has been his lively hood for the last 7 years. all ivan does is place his 'flux capassator' in-line, spits a code you could have done simply by disconnecting the shift indicator harness, or whatever the tre instructions say to disconnect first. it will spit a code in the ecu, and that's your (same tre) result.
how can i EVEN discuss 'method tuning' when the simple fuel injection basics have yet to be grasped using the tre! you probably never heard of this type (method) practice; Capturing specific codes to use the (backup) ignition advancers inside the ecu = settings in digital modes.
if i were in competition, i'd never reveal this tuning trick. i just don't care who knows about it. i no longer race.... too busted up and too old to compete at the top level. now, you're all on an equal level knowing this little computer tuning trick... it's basically a 7 year old tuning tool.
tin, your're cool.... mr. brown, this stuff is way over your head... i don't expect this stuff to sink in your thick skull at all. look how 7 years flew by and you're still sitting on a ttre-stump, all dayzed-and-confused as the hours click by day after day.
until you fully understand how the tre functions (when it is simply installed), you'll never grasp the harvesting (of a backup) inside the ecu to accomplish this.
Projekt
Registered
Your "tactful" approach is full of grammatical errors. This goes to discredit your "intelligent" attempts to discredit anyone here.
If you were to present a well written, well thought out essay on Fuel Injection and share it in order to inform the members here you'd deserve some respect.
However, so far, all you've done is comment simply to bait folks into somekind of heated argument. I know what you are doing because I am good at it myself. Thing is that this is not the place to present that part of your character and expect to have it received with open arms. We are not like the rest of the online community at this site, at least not in the literal spelling of insults and derogatory terms.
This is the internet and should be understood as being for your entertainment only, not as some kind of place to take things personally. Obviously, you see this by stating that "there is no skin off my nose".
It's all psychological you see. This is stuff you've learned in High School psych courses. That is, unless you are a some kind if double major Psychologist/Mechanical engineer with communication problems...
Well, are you?
Pro, you see the bating, because I have yet to see someone nail down the basics of FI, how to explain away the tre, the ignition, and every point in a logical manor.
As long as you make a joke of this, I can joke right along with you. I know the theory cold, and am always confident to show you the simple progression, and blow away any other way you think it works...
I didn't make the rules of FI.... I just follow them.
Crash, I want to make sure that number is a reminder as to how many times you've been bent over, ready to receive the next performance foo-foo fix-all (on a computer bike, no less).
As long as you make a joke of this, I can joke right along with you. I know the theory cold, and am always confident to show you the simple progression, and blow away any other way you think it works...
I didn't make the rules of FI.... I just follow them.
Crash, I want to make sure that number is a reminder as to how many times you've been bent over, ready to receive the next performance foo-foo fix-all (on a computer bike, no less).
Who cares? I have Ivan's TRE and I noticed that it made the lower gears smoother while shifting. I like that. Some don't. Debating over a tre is like having a debate about Tobin seats... some like them and use them and others don't. A tre is so cheap, anyway. Try it and see what happens. If you don't like it, you're only out maybe $40. The damned bike is still a rocket with or without a tre....
bitabur
Registered
I've been sitting here this whole time wondering if 2busa's posts are being generated by a computer.... I've seen automatically generated text like this fake people out... seriously, how can anyone really believe this BS???
If you really are human, 2busa, I think you should know that most of the things you've claimed are facts aren't only not true, they're totally wrong. Totally. Stunningly, in fact.
You said that you can disconnect the TPS and the ecu will still be able to run the bike in "backup" mode based on engine RPM sensor alone. Do you realize that as you go from closed to WOT throttle you would be varying the A/F ratio so dramatically that it's virtually impossible for the bike to run across that range?
You seem to think that the ECU is sending a code to the engine.... in reality it is sending electrical pulses to the fuel injectors. If you add a PC in the loop, it is recieving and modifying those pulses. The ecu can't be running in this so called backup mode, it's not even in control anymore.
If you really are human, 2busa, I think you should know that most of the things you've claimed are facts aren't only not true, they're totally wrong. Totally. Stunningly, in fact.
You said that you can disconnect the TPS and the ecu will still be able to run the bike in "backup" mode based on engine RPM sensor alone. Do you realize that as you go from closed to WOT throttle you would be varying the A/F ratio so dramatically that it's virtually impossible for the bike to run across that range?
You seem to think that the ECU is sending a code to the engine.... in reality it is sending electrical pulses to the fuel injectors. If you add a PC in the loop, it is recieving and modifying those pulses. The ecu can't be running in this so called backup mode, it's not even in control anymore.
Projekt
Registered
I am not the one asking the questions about FI theory so why would you care to offer me answers? The way I think it works is the way I learned through reading countless books and credible articles on the subject. That and about fifteen years of entertaining myself with fuel injected powerplants.
By the way I do not have a TRE...
So...
How about some Jokes?
PaNDe,
Do you see what you're saying? There is no debate. the tre throws a code etiher way. 'Disconnect' the harness, or paying $$$ for something that does exactly the same thing!
You are the typical average sucker, shelling out cash for nothing. It's a computer bike. You, Ivan are locked out of the ecu. If you could somehow see both activities will acheive the same thing, you'll never need to spend another dime for the 'hidden' performance in the ecu 'backups.'
Do you see how easy the tre sets the code so you can feel the difference? PaNDe, go out to the bike, disconnect the tre, leave the wire harness disconnected and you will find no difference riding the bike. It will be just as smooth.
Do you see what you're saying? There is no debate. the tre throws a code etiher way. 'Disconnect' the harness, or paying $$$ for something that does exactly the same thing!
You are the typical average sucker, shelling out cash for nothing. It's a computer bike. You, Ivan are locked out of the ecu. If you could somehow see both activities will acheive the same thing, you'll never need to spend another dime for the 'hidden' performance in the ecu 'backups.'
Do you see how easy the tre sets the code so you can feel the difference? PaNDe, go out to the bike, disconnect the tre, leave the wire harness disconnected and you will find no difference riding the bike. It will be just as smooth.
I can easily show you how FI will capture the exact, precise fuel delivery to each and every cylinder, each and every time... be it idle to WOT, or, the instant you move the throttle.
The parameters capture 8 engine cycles. The first 4 cycles is captured by idle, for example.. If you WOT the throttle, the TPS,GPS, and every air/temp sensor(s) has data set for the next immediate upcoming 4 cycle spin. The first set of 4 cycles, now see a WOT situation for the next 4 cycles (cause you are still on the gas).... It's a perpetual 8 cycle data delivery, telling the ecu to spray/set advance on the next coming 4 cycle; Ready to spray the perfect fuel mix into the cylinder chamber at any, and ALL RPM RANGES...
This is absolute. There is no dispute. Try telling me how each and every spray is handled for each and every, ''fire stroke in another way''?
I'm waiting for the experts to prove me wrong. Tell me how the bike receives the ideal spray for every engine cycle at any RPM range?
Make sure the theory works as well as what is explained in the shop manual.
Good Luck!
Dude,,,,,,, "2busa" "" why don't you help everyone out here, and tell them in lamans terms your humble opinion or "facts" guiding them on what they should do...Instead of being a richard.!!!
.. No one here is wanting to belittle anyone for asking questions or offering their opinions to help out a fellow member ..everybody has a common interest "Busa's". Thats what make this site great!!!!
Tin, I want to know why no one sees the, "simple obvious". Why is this tre not signaling in your heads... a simple code spit?
Want another hidden enhancement on another computer bike? That ZX14 bike rides like rheostat. They use the term, "Linear" to describe the electric motor power the bike puts out. Ivan comes out with a tre for the 14. The tre triggers a backup parameter that now reads a, "digital" (it no longer uses the other 5 gears individual voltage readings), but is locked, using a (digital = single reading) signal that takes over for all gears. Because the tre plays, "in-line" with the shift wires, the bike also raises the "linear" throttle plates fully open. When this happens, there is an improvement of bottom-end torque.
If I disconnect the shift sensor, I have accomplished the same thing... which is to harvest that specific ''trouble code''.
Do you see in layman's terms, the bottom torque was always in the Busa/ZX14's ECU.
Do you see the, "FACT FINDING CORRELATIONS" between the two?
Here is what you do... Understand that Ivan simply has to ground the sensor to harvest the code, which created the smoothness for the busa.
Understand the computer in any future bike, will have a backup system that performs better when it is reading the single digit inside the ECU.
If Ivan dropped dead tomorrow (heaven forbid), you could pull the sensors off any future busa, and ride forever and a day in backup... until the bike flat out dies from compression loss. It will ride as if Ivan sold you a tre for it.
ANY QUESTIONS?
Want another hidden enhancement on another computer bike? That ZX14 bike rides like rheostat. They use the term, "Linear" to describe the electric motor power the bike puts out. Ivan comes out with a tre for the 14. The tre triggers a backup parameter that now reads a, "digital" (it no longer uses the other 5 gears individual voltage readings), but is locked, using a (digital = single reading) signal that takes over for all gears. Because the tre plays, "in-line" with the shift wires, the bike also raises the "linear" throttle plates fully open. When this happens, there is an improvement of bottom-end torque.
If I disconnect the shift sensor, I have accomplished the same thing... which is to harvest that specific ''trouble code''.
Do you see in layman's terms, the bottom torque was always in the Busa/ZX14's ECU.
Do you see the, "FACT FINDING CORRELATIONS" between the two?
Here is what you do... Understand that Ivan simply has to ground the sensor to harvest the code, which created the smoothness for the busa.
Understand the computer in any future bike, will have a backup system that performs better when it is reading the single digit inside the ECU.
If Ivan dropped dead tomorrow (heaven forbid), you could pull the sensors off any future busa, and ride forever and a day in backup... until the bike flat out dies from compression loss. It will ride as if Ivan sold you a tre for it.
ANY QUESTIONS?
I understand what you are saying 2busa, but now everyone else can too.To be honest, way back when, I put my tre on I personally didn't notice anything bottom end. That's why I took it off. I'll probably never exceed the factory limit anyway. And anoher thing, there has been a question on here that I have never seen answered. What happens with the" TRE" in conjuction with the Power Commander III? Does the PCIII override your "code spit" and use the PCIII MAP exclusively? Or are you running code spit
Cycle world September 06 page 43
"While the Hayabusa has been hobbled in the bottom two gears all along, this has gone largely unnoticed since the engine still provides an abundance of bottom end punch."
"The Busa resulted in 83 ft pounds of torque at 4,000rpm in third but dropped to 77 ft pounds in second."
This is right out of cycle world, I believe it's proof enough.
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