What a Wet Shot looks like.

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

King, impressive numbers. By my reckoning, your making about 290 HP for that kind of MPH well before your progressive is at 100%. How do you get that kind of power out of 4 22 jets that should only be good for 70hp. Also (if you don't mind sharing) whose solenoids are you using. I've had big problems running solenoids at 30% starting.

Lets see the answers to this one?

 

[kingofdacoast]

King, impressive numbers. By my reckoning, your making about 290 HP for that kind of MPH well before your progressive is at 100%. How do you get that kind of power out of 4 22 jets that should only be good for 70hp. Also (if you don't mind sharing) whose solenoids are you using. I've had big problems running solenoids at 30% starting.

Its not really about the size of the jets but how you manage the fuel for the nitrous. Its only a 65 shot. I run the small solenoids but my controller is the PNC-3000 and you can actually change the pulsing rate of the solenoids. With my race settings on my controller I run 140+ in the 1/8th and 180+ 1/4. I'm 235lbs suited too.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Lets see the answers to this one?

Its not hard when you know and understand that bigger isn't always better. I've already shown you that my dry setup fogging the airbox with a 32 jet makes more hp than your spraybar with a 40 jet. Control is everything. Stay with me grasshopper and I promise you will learn something.

 

[kingofdacoast]

NOS Stealth Kit

Well Mr. Gixx, since you put that pic up can you please tell the class the difference between your setup and that one? Why does that one work with the nozzles side by side? Watch your step cause your getting close to catching footinmouth. ???

 

[kingofdacoast]

Hey Toxic, how far you from Fontana? I may have to crew chief for one of our sponsered road racers for the ama race next weekend and if I do I will load up Bulletproof and Odin and bring this asswhoopin to your door.

 

[Oilfieldtrash]

Now that's what I call a money shot.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

 

[Draco1340]

...Its only a 65 shot. ...With my race settings on my controller I run 140+ in the 1/8th and 180+ 1/4. I'm 235lbs suited too.

Holy Crap thats fast. I must be a confused "grasshoper" as well, because for a 235 lb guy (~740lb total?) to go over 180 in the quarter requires over 340HP.??? How do you do that with a 65HP power adder? Twin engines? Thanks for the info on the pulse rate, but I'm still confused.???

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Hey Toxic, how far you from Fontana? I may have to crew chief for one of our sponsered road racers for the ama race next weekend and if I do I will load up Bulletproof and Odin and bring this asswhoopin to your door.

FONTANA!!!! YA OK, thats only 450miles away from me :sneaky2: im not driving 8hrs just to race your HUFFY!

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Holy Crap thats fast. I must be a confused "grasshoper" as well, because for a 235 lb guy (~740lb total?) to go over 180 in the quarter requires over 340HP.??? How do you do that with a 65HP power adder? Twin engines? Thanks for the info on the pulse rate, but I'm still confused.???

Draco, its a lost cause bro, you'll be here forever trying to figure out is hocus pocus, fictitious claim's of numbers and HP.

 

[Mellow77]

Everybody's a winner internet racing.

Everyone's a winner watching this ridiculous pissing contest.

 

[ToXSicK RoCKeT]

Everyone's a winner watching this ridiculous pissing contest.

Go Away then!

 

[Gixx1300R]

Everyone's a winner watching this ridiculous pissing contest.

Agreed,that is why I will not lower myself to even respond. Been here doing things way too long. Here is a little dry shot on one of my customer's ZX10. Not bad for a little 40 shot.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Ok Draco, let me explain. I may be a fatboy but my bike isn't. It is a well tuned monster. Thats still not the point though. Everything we do to make hp out of our bikes is solely dependant on volumetric effeciency. That depends on a few factors but basically comes down to how much volume a cylinder can take and work efficiently. Doesn't matter if its N/A, nitrous or turbo. Most bikes can have a VE of 90% depending on how its setup. Lets say we have your bike and we are installing a NX busa wet kit which comes with jetting for 40, 60 and 100 shot. First thing is to know how well your engine is doing so we know what we're working with. Just to skip all the mathmatics involved, lets say we figure your engine is at 91% VE. Thats good. So now you install the wet kit and use the 100 shot jets (26n,24f) along with the fuel pump that comes with the kit which can pump 4.5-5lbs of fuel pressure. Not flowing fuel pressure now, just what it pumps out (dead head pump). We follow the normal rule of thumb when it comes to timing (-2 degress for every 50hp) and we take out 4 degrees. We go everything installed and with a bottle pressure of 1000 (as they recommend) we go to the dyno. We do a pull and it doesn't make 100hp. Hmmm? We add 2 degrees back in and do another pull. Still doesn't make a 100hp. So now we go back to stock timing and do a pull and it still doesn't make a 100hp. Hmmm? Well, let try backing down on the shot and put the 60 shot (20f/20n) jets in and see what we get. We do the pull and it makes the same hp that the 100 shot jets made. So we went less but still made the same hp? That don't sound right? Why wouldn't it make more with the bigger jets? Well lets try the 40 (18f/18n) shot jets. We do a pull and now the smaller jets makes more hp than the 60 and 100 jets did. Let take a few degrees of timing out of it and now it makes over 100hp. Hmmmm? So now you say "my friend has the same kit on his busa and it made right at 100hp with the 100hp jets. How come mine runs better with the smaller ones?" All depends on VE. Your motor runs better with less cause your VE is 91% where as your friends bike may only be at 80%. If nobody cared to check how his motor was before installing the wet kit then they have no clue how well it can run or how much. If his compression is low then he could spray more which gives him the room. Does this mean you can't run bigger jets? Absolutly not. It just means that the "generic" kit can't give you what you need and now you need a good nitrous tuner to be able to get you there. Remeber earlier when I was talking about the stock fuel pump can pump 4.5-5lbs but thats not a "flowing" fuel pressure? A flowing fuel pressure is what pressure the fuel is actually flowing when the system is activated. If you seen some dyno charts of a wet kit when activated it goes lean really quick then goes into a head dive rich? On a generic kit the nitrous will always beat the fuel to the engine. What if we could get that fuel there a little faster so it won't be so drastic. If I can keep my fuel flowing at, lets say, 6lbs constantly with no interuption do you think we could make a little more power? Probably wouldn't need alot of nitrous either, correct? So now we go back and install our 26 nitrous jet but instead of using the 24 on the fuel we use another 26 jet. Lets set our flowing fuel pressure at say 4lbs and do a pull. Tire is screeching on the dyno and makes 140hp. DAMN! Lets take some timing out. 4 degrees should do it. Do the pull again 160hp! Lets take a few more degrees out and raise our flowing fuel pressure up to 5lbs. Do the pull 180hp! HOT DAMN! Now we cooking. So technically you can take a smaller jet and make more hp if your fuel system can stay in control. CONTROL IS EVERYTHING! This is the stuff the big guys don't want you to know. If you saw what all is under my tank you would be amazed. I've pulled my jets out of my bike at the track to show what they are and people still can't believe their eyes when they see how fast my bike is. I know this was long but I hope you got the information I'm trying to pass on. My bike runs at a VE of 96% and I'm still working hard to get it as close to 100 as I can get it. The big race teams normally run no less than 98%. A stock bike off the floor will normally be about 88-90.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Agreed,that is why I will not lower myself to even respond. Been here doing things way too long. Here is a little dry shot on one of my customer's ZX10. Not bad for a little 40 shot.

You lowered yourself when you went into your little temper tantrum when I wouldn't install your product. You may have ALOT of people fooled, but they just don't have all the info. Don't worry though, I will educate them.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Holy Crap thats fast. I must be a confused "grasshoper" as well, because for a 235 lb guy (~740lb total?) to go over 180 in the quarter requires over 340HP.??? How do you do that with a 65HP power adder? Twin engines? Thanks for the info on the pulse rate, but I'm still confused.???

I'm coming 1700+ miles to deliver this asswhoopin and you can't drive a few hours? How about half way then. Can someone tell me what's the nearest 1/4 mile track between the two areas?

 

[BusaWizard]

It would be nice to see you guys get together and help each other instead of trying to destroy one another, that's what's wrong with the world today everybody's trying to kill instead of making the only place we have (Earth) a better place. With the wealth of knowledge you guys have, there's no reason you couldn't be helping each other. Can't we just all get along. NOW get out there and play nice!

 

[99'busa]

So how do I ask my tuner to check MY VE

 

[ktw88q]

Better go to the DR... for that...

 

[kingofdacoast]

You can figure that out yourself. Let me explain a little. In a four-stroke naturally aspirated engine, the theoretical maximum amount of air that each cylinder can ingest during the intake cycle is equal to the swept volume (displacement) of that cylinder (0.7854 x bore x bore x stroke). The actual amount of air the engine ingests compared to that theoretical maximum is called volumetric efficiency (VE). There are many factors which determine how much torque an engine can produce, but the fundamental determinant is the amount of air it can ingest into the cylinders.

Now lets get a little more technical. The calculation for engine airflow at 100% VE, in sea-level-standard-day cubic feet per minute (cfm, I'm sure you guys have heard those letters before) is airflow (cfm) = CU(rpm/2)/1728. Because, the number of times the cylinder fills with air is half of the rpm, since it takes 2 complete revolutions to complete the four stroke cycle. Let me break it down a little here. The engine's displacement is presented in Cubic Inches, while the airflow is expressed as Cubic Feet per Minute. There are 1728 cubic inches in one cubic foot, so we take the total displacement of the cylinder at 100%VE and multiply that by the number of times we have filled the cylinder, then we'll have a total number of cubic inches or airflow. By dividing the total number of cubic inches by the number of cubic inches per cubic foot, we will have the total number of cubic feet per minute, or cfm of airflow.

I type fast so if you guys have any questions please ask.

 

[kingofdacoast]

Now what about forced induction (nitrous or turbo)? How does compressing air and forcing it into the cylinder affect VE? Well, remember I said the VE is a "theoretical" measure of the engine's ability to fill with air, so if we take twice the volume of air the engine can contain and force it into the engine, then our VE would equal 200%. Like I said on my other length post that if one engine was better than the other it would make more power with less. The important thing to remember here is that while the VE changed dramatically, the actual volume flow through the engine did NOT change. Since we cannot change the size of our cylinder, then we can only move exactly the same volume through it in any cycle. We have simply made the same volume more "dense".