Alright. I'm REALLY trying to follow you here. I follow the math but still dont get how I can figure this out myself (VE of my own) So 2 engines with the same bore and same stroke can have dif. VE. Right?
What a Wet Shot looks like.
- Thread starter Gixx1300R
- Start date
Alright. I'm REALLY trying to follow you here. I follow the math but still dont get how I can figure this out myself (VE of my own) So 2 engines with the same bore and same stroke can have dif. VE. Right?
kingofdacoast
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It would be nice to see you guys get together and help each other instead of trying to destroy one another, that's what's wrong with the world today everybody's trying to kill instead of making the only place we have (Earth) a better place. With the wealth of knowledge you guys have, there's no reason you couldn't be helping each other. Can't we just all get along.NOW get out there and play nice!
I want some facts not just pictures spraying nitrous in the air and a dyno sheet showing a increase. Why don't you ask him why it works and let him explain it to you other than it made hp. So far every thing he has posted I have proved it wrong. Get me some evidence that its better.
kingofdacoast
Registered
Correct. Now I'm leaving alot of other info out cause I'm trying to recall all this from memory. My build book is at the shop so bare with me. I'll try and post the formula's tomorrow and show you how to input your spec to see where you are. There are a few readings your going to have to get from your engine but I'll post one I've already done. Its not that hard but the math can get you a little confused if you don't use it alot. Once you do it a few times then you'll get it.
:agree: thanks
kingofdacoast
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Not all cylinders. Just one.
Lets take something easy where I don't have to convert from mm to inch's.
Lets take a M109R Suzuki. Its Cubic inch's is 109. Its rev limit is set at 7500 rpm's. It takes 2 complete revolutions to complete the four stroke cycle and then we'll divide that by 1728. So the equation will be: 109(7500/2)/1728= 236cfm. So for me to be at 100% VE I need to flow 236cfm of air in that motor.
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kingofdacoast
Registered
Just to give you all a idea of displacement. When we talk about how much air can move across the engine, we talk about the engine's displacement. I'm sure you all know about a Chevy 350. When we say an engine is a 350 cubin inch Chevy, we mean that over one complete cycle the engine "could" displace a total of 350 cubic inches of air. Also if you hear someone say they have a 5.0 liter mustang, that means that it will displace 5 liters of air over one complete cycle. However, the reality is that engines do not always live up to their theorectical airflow potential. If you guys are interested in learning a little more let me know. I'm getting sleepy.
Lets see some pic of your setups n bike...
Draco1340
Registered
King,
Fully agree that the real "trick" with nitrous is in fuel control. Too much emphasis on money shots and not enough on the details of progressive fuel management.
I also fully agree that smaller shots can be much more effective and efficient. Tricking a busa motor into thinking its 2000 cc by spraying N2O past the intake valve is easy. Getting that stuff out the exhaust side is tough; a task the suzuki engineer never envisioned for the small exahust valve and cam. I'm sure you put effort into increasing exhaust ports, valves, duration, and advancing ex cam timing. Smaller shots are more efficient for this reason. I'm very interested in discussing / trading tricks in this regard. I personally have made a lot of mistakes, and have a pile of blown up pistons (H2s, Z1s, ZX, GSXR...) to show for it, so I'm always looking for new tricks.
I just don't understand how you get your rig to go 180 in the quarter without about 340 HP. F=MA regardless of efficiency.
Fully agree that the real "trick" with nitrous is in fuel control. Too much emphasis on money shots and not enough on the details of progressive fuel management.
I also fully agree that smaller shots can be much more effective and efficient. Tricking a busa motor into thinking its 2000 cc by spraying N2O past the intake valve is easy. Getting that stuff out the exhaust side is tough; a task the suzuki engineer never envisioned for the small exahust valve and cam. I'm sure you put effort into increasing exhaust ports, valves, duration, and advancing ex cam timing. Smaller shots are more efficient for this reason. I'm very interested in discussing / trading tricks in this regard. I personally have made a lot of mistakes, and have a pile of blown up pistons (H2s, Z1s, ZX, GSXR...) to show for it, so I'm always looking for new tricks.
I just don't understand how you get your rig to go 180 in the quarter without about 340 HP. F=MA regardless of efficiency.
kingofdacoast
Registered
King,
Fully agree that the real "trick" with nitrous is in fuel control. Too much emphasis on money shots and not enough on the details of progressive fuel management.
I also fully agree that smaller shots can be much more effective and efficient. Tricking a busa motor into thinking its 2000 cc by spraying N2O past the intake valve is easy. Getting that stuff out the exhaust side is tough; a task the suzuki engineer never envisioned for the small exahust valve and cam. I'm sure you put effort into increasing exhaust ports, valves, duration, and advancing ex cam timing. Smaller shots are more efficient for this reason. I'm very interested in discussing / trading tricks in this regard. I personally have made a lot of mistakes, and have a pile of blown up pistons (H2s, Z1s, ZX, GSXR...) to show for it, so I'm always looking for new tricks.
I just don't understand how you get your rig to go 180 in the quarter without about 340 HP. F=MA regardless of efficiency.
Your forgetting one thing. The engine thats actually doing the work. You say I need 340hp. I agree. Stop thinking about the size of my jets and think what it puts out. My engine makes 250hp by itself. Now you do know that 250hp on motor is different from having a engine on nitrous making 250 don't you? So if I make 250hp on motor and then add my little shot whick makes, lets say 90hp (even though its rated at a 65 shot) thats 340hp. Right where you say I should be. Now lets take a few pounds off the bike (instead of my fat ass) and make the engine don't work as hard. Think I can get a few more mph and a little better et? Now lets take gearing, 18 front, 40 rear. That should get me turning a little more mph. 180 is nothing if you have everything working right. There are some all motor bikes that can do 170+ without nitrous with 180lbs riders. PM your setup and I'll point you in the direction you should go and I promise you will pick up mph and et. The rule to remember with any kind of hp gain is the faster you can get air and fuel in and out of a engine efficiently will always make more hp.
Don't say nothing about burned up parts cause toxicrocket will try to hurt your feelings with it.
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ToXSicK RoCKeT
Registered
King, what more facts are you wanting guy? ??? The guy(gixx1300r)has showed you EVERYTHING and has tried to explain it to you numerous times(diffrent posts,ect...)
He's showed every part on his kit(no secret's there, can you say the same?), he's showed you dyno graph's(before and after his kit was installed), he's posted numerous Customer's feed back on how much better his spray bar worked over there OLD "fogging the air box" method, THERE WORDS, not his(Some where seeing 4-7mph more in 1320'). Please explain what more proof you'd like to see that it works and works VERY WELL! Just because he's not quoting "how to hotrod your small block chevy, and Nitrous 101" books word for word, doesnt mean jack 
And just to clarify, it was YOU that called HIM on the carpet saying you could "prove" to all of us that your "50hp wet kit" would make more MPH in the 1320' than his "150hp spray bar", you said you had ALL the parts and means to do it.....and then never delivered!(remember?..... I DO!). Now you say HE lost credit with you when he through a tantrum? ???
What method are you using to determine your ACTUAL V.E. of 96% for your engine?
ToXSicK RoCKeT
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ToXSicK RoCKeT
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Don't say nothing about burned up parts cause toxicrocket will try to hurt your feelings with it.
kingofdacoast
Registered
First you have to figure out how much cfm @ 100% VE is then find out what your actuall cfm that the motor can use. I will post the equation so you can figure yours out yourself.
kingofdacoast
Registered
King, what more facts are you wanting guy? ??? The guy(gixx1300r)has showed you EVERYTHING and has tried to explain it to you numerous times(diffrent posts,ect...)
And just to clarify, it was YOU that called HIM on the carpet saying you could "prove" to all of us that your "50hp wet kit" would make more MPH in the 1320' than his "150hp spray bar", you said you had ALL the parts and means to do it.....and then never delivered!(remember?..... I DO!). Now you say HE lost credit with you when he through a tantrum? ???
It means I know more than you do. He hasn't proved nothing but show a few dyno sheets and some pictures. Give me proof. I can take a nitrous bottle and open it up through the ram air tubes and show a increase in hp. That don't prove its effecient. Answer me this, whats the purpose of spraying nitrous down all four cylinders compared to fogging the airbox?
kingofdacoast
Registered
There are more than a few equations that can be used. I was only curious as to what method you use to determine your actual VE. This doesn't require a mathematical answer. Are you measuring BSFC? Mass air flow? You correct by looking at what...
Yes, theoretical is very basic. Max rpm, perfect air density, etc.
I was just curious on your method. It shouldn't have required anything to be looked up or anything. Sorry I know this was off subject from this thread but I figured since it's been jacked all over the place my question wouldn't effect the direction of the thread.
Yes, theoretical is very basic. Max rpm, perfect air density, etc.
I was just curious on your method. It shouldn't have required anything to be looked up or anything. Sorry I know this was off subject from this thread but I figured since it's been jacked all over the place my question wouldn't effect the direction of the thread.
