XTRE....Good or Bad ?

Disadvantage is that you run 5th gear fueling all the time which sucks


Stock I got 120 miles out of 4 gallons, then put the Muzzy, pwr cmndr V and XTRE on as well as had Dyno tune and custom map made. Fuel mileage went to 100 miles for 4 gallons. Now I have installed Brock's Alienhead full system and had a new map made rather than having them tweak the old one and strangely enough with the Brock's and a new map I gained back 10, so now I get 110 miles out of 4 gallons. In the end I am within 10 miles per tank of stock MPG and I am PLUS 22HP !
 
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Your understanding of the manual is wrong
I'm going to try and make you understand how to read the FSM as to how I read it. So, you need to come back with every gear value as I take everything out of the book...

Resistance is 500 ohms in 1st then goes up to as high as 15k in 6th gear, 5th is 6.8k
Here are the values of one brand bike with a GPS:

Input Voltage at 1 ~ 6 Gear Positions
Standard:
1st ~ About 3.0v
2nd ~ About 2.5v
3rd ~ About 2.0v
4th ~ About 1.5v
5th ~ About 1.1v
6th ~ About 0.7v


Notice how lower the voltage steps down as you go up in gear. Now, they may use a 6.8 ohm resistor in one of the 7 (1-N-23456) positions. of the GPS to move those volts. Where are you getting these numbers from?

Ecu only locks to 6th gear IF the gps sensor doesn't output a correct signal to it
Correct. And when you run an extra few resistances in that wire to the ECU, that ECU closes the door on the GPS, reverts to the "Method." The method is the generic 1Atmo of the low to mid/mid to WOT crank speed.
That is why, no matter the ohm you set to ground, it defaults to the 3 basic variables of "no signal" being disconnected or grounded = Fail-Safe Mode.

If it always locked to 6th why would there even be a gps sensor?
Because I have video of moving the gears which open the air cleaner door, or again, like I said in the generic; Busa has an air cleaner design door actuator; Kawi has the subthrottle plates in the throttle body, moving by actuator. So, when you disable one of the GPS wires, you see the a/c door open faster or locks open which gives you that extra boost of air speed unrestricted by the slower moving door/subs.

The higher the gear the more fuel there is for ram air effect.
Well, not exactly. Remember we no longer have the GPS in the loop. There are no longer the resistances in the slower analog mode. We are in the 1Atmo calculations, where the crank is following the "Method." See, you can WOT the throttle in any gear, and any ram pressure drops instantly as if you ran as fast as you could; where the air is pushing against your teeth gaps.
But once you open your mouth to inhale as quick as you can, you no longer have pressure and this inhale overrides any (ram) pressure is now vacuum. Ram has to be at least 28 pounds or double 14.7psi, to push what is being inhaled at 14.7 is filling a void (your lungs).

Therefore, we do not need the throttle position sensor = Method.
We do not need the GPS = Method.
We do not need the door/sub actuator.
We do not need the the Subthrottle/air gate limiters = Method.
We do need the crank sensor speed to determine the method halves, i.e., low-mid/mid-WOT rpm ranges.

:rulez: I take my info directly out of the FSM. FI is generic among bikes. The designs of the linear/analog are what the engineers apply, as to how to slow the air intake. Thus, the GPS is tied to the doors/subs; once you set the locked-6 fail-safe code is one example.

Please dispute the FSM; Not me. I'm following the bike's behavior as I hacked over 9 default codes as per FSM's backup/fail-safe events. Each time the codes happened, these hacks follow the same abstract that is written on the code pages of the FSM.

This how you read between the lines the manual does not out and out describe... Well, yes it does. The abstract sure walks each and every practical step I see it take in black and white. So show me how the book is wrong.
 
Please do me a favor and stick to the subject . :beerchug:
All that seems fine and we can discuss quantum physics all day long but please keep on topic of XTRE ! :bowdown: If you are still on topic it's gone way past what I asked for , whew ! :rofl:
 
Blanca? I never left the topic. This is smack dab XTRE, TRE, any OHM you choose = XTRE credit :laugh: :thumbsup:

I knew I was going to lose the crowd once I describe the Ivan/J-Cheeze is Lou Wheeze is this is so basic computer bike theory. :rofl:
 
Like I said if you were still on topic then fine just that most of what you said may well have been polish cuz this idget has no idea what you just said !:rofl
I'm simply curious what folks think . Again it kinda of sucks that I had mine installed same time as pwr cmndr so I can't give an accurate opinion of which one did what I percieve to be the feeling I now like.
 
Like I said if you were still on topic then fine just that most of what you said may well have been polish cuz this idget has no idea what you just said !

See the 3 wires in the XTRE? 1. To ground. 2. To the N wire or dash pod. 3. To ECU.

The key here are the other ground wires [a/c door/subthrottle] tied to a junction box. You break that ground, that sets one code. You break the ECU wire off at the GPS, you get another code. Dash wire is your [locked-6] code signal, along with your [N light] at the foot shift. Now, I know the N light comes on with a GPS internal failure/disconnect/short to ground = 3 Basic Wire Variable, or what I call 3wV for short.

So, when the switching happens, you get either/or [6/N] hack or back to stock. Because you hack into the pre-wire to the ECU, the ECU does not see it's perfect resistance at the analog. The PC on the other hand is post-ecu. You just have that box hold the injector open longer in milliseconds.

Back to the GPS; A wire [might as well be out of it's connector] now switches to 'backup' is Kawi's term. And Suz is 'fail-safe,' using their term. Kind of the same wordage, using either FSM, don't you think? So, say we use the Kawi GPS, being I know this product and half of the code read of the Busa.

They both lock-6. The wire hack to the other wire of the GPS turns the N on [Kawi] and holds that light on. Did not both switch on and off as in [the ECU] locks you out no matter the TRE?

It's pretty simple a concept. You are either ON-Analog, or OFF-Electronics. Said another way; You are seeing No-Codes or Code-Set(s)>> On the dash.

WAX-ON ~ WAX-OFF :rofl:
 
I'm going to try and make you understand how to read the FSM as to how I read it. So, you need to come back with every gear value as I take everything out of the book...

Here are the values of one brand bike with a GPS:

Input Voltage at 1 ~ 6 Gear Positions
Standard:
1st ~ About 3.0v
2nd ~ About 2.5v
3rd ~ About 2.0v
4th ~ About 1.5v
5th ~ About 1.1v
6th ~ About 0.7v


Notice how lower the voltage steps down as you go up in gear. Now, they may use a 6.8 ohm resistor in one of the 7 (1-N-23456) positions. of the GPS to move those volts. Where are you getting these numbers from?
[/I]

Those voltage readings would be what you get reading the GPS output with a voltmeter tied to ground. 1st having the lowest resistance produces the lowest loss of voltage. 6th having the highest resistance would have the greatest loss within the circuit. The measurements would be opposite if you measure the voltage across the resistor, not the entire circuit.
 
On topic: If you want to find out how it runs without the X-TRE you can unplug the box and put the loop plug that was supplied on the wiring that was installed on the bike. That will let the bike run as it would with stock gear sensor operation.
 
Busa2 you are incorrect on your voltages, only kawis work like that, suzukis are opposite, 1st gear is lowest voltage and 6th gear is highest voltage much closer to 5 volts, and the rest of what you are saying makes no sense to me lol

By no means on a suzuki do you want to fail the gps circuit to try and go faster, you will smack the governor in every gear as the ecu has you on the 6th gear map which starts pulling fuel from 2 cylinders at about 10200 rpm.

Don't believe me try it, unplug your gps and run the bike to limiter, then plug it back in and repeat. You will notive you loose about 800 rpm or so when the ecu is in the 6th gear map with gps unplugged.


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Busa2 you are incorrect on your voltages, only kawis work like that, suzukis are opposite, 1st gear is lowest voltage and 6th gear is highest voltage much closer to 5 volts, and the rest of what you are saying makes no sense to me lol

How come I can follow your way of thinking and how FI operates is watch how you step to the next practical event. It's like someone is going to explain 4-Stroke theory and you jumble intake-spark-exhaust-power. I think you missed a step to the theory. I think the practical runs, "intake-spark-power-exhaust." Anyway...

Smith, explain to me how both Suz and Kawi use 6th to default to the same gear? I have both manuals. Both use 6-locked.
Are you saying that one bike runs 0.01v to 5.0v and the other swaps the opposite 5.0v to 0.01v? But both default to 6th? How is that possible? That is how I read what you are explaining. You are saying both books [suz/kaw] are incorrect now.

"The Details: [taken from Pashnit site]
'Just like the HealTech GIPRO w/ATRE, the X-TRE comes with user selectable gear maps."

How can you reprogram a map when these are not even the pins to the ECU that you need to read or reprogram the base map(s)? Explain that part to me. If you read the FSM's ECU pin readout, some are for the running on a Windows personal computer. No GPS wire has that capability or is used to communicate with the software.

I'll give you an example. If you use a, 'for racing purposes only,' Kawi's factory racing "Kit-ECU," you have to use two pins that communicate with the PC's hard drive, so you can change the base ign/timing maps, using Kawi's software that comes with the kit.

This XTRE says you can use 'selectable gear maps?" :rofl: Not when that box acts like the g-pro and reverts to a remote gear select window. This just does the same thing in the box. Did it default to a backup/fail-safe map? I think so. You messed with the 3wV = Practical theory.

Did I pull apart my GPS connector? I sure did and the subthrottle would not open and I went no place but caused the front end to dive the more I gave it throttle.

But you read a code with a lost wire out of the connector, and one event happens where the actuator locks open the a/c door and/or subthrottle, even though you did not throw a door/sub 'actuator code.' That is the trick to the hack. You still have a closed loop going on with wires connected.

What you did do though, was to lose that analog-loop to the GPS that ties into the actuator. And did not the other wire turn to a hard cut, where the momentary fuel shut off happens on lift = Closed TPS.

So, did we stop some exhaust pop on the decel, being the hard cut [Soft = Analog ~ Hard = Fuel cut disabled upon decel] was turned on, as in "Safe to run?" Sort of a rich limp. <<< Someone explaining they lost 10mpg once the powercommander corrected the over-rich 'fail-safe.'

Again, if you read, "generic FI" theory, the voltage balances to the opposite; the lower you go twisting the TPS rheostat input, the opposite balance happens the other way. Therefore, both revert to the 6-locked >> :rulez:

I bet if I installed the XTRE, I could feel the same 'backup' seat of the pants mapping as if I removed a wire, caused the bike to display the 6-lock or the locked-N on the Kawi dash. And for argument sake, say we run the locked-6. Would we default to the hard cut and increase rpm's?

The only difference between tre's are the connector fittings. The same exact guts inside are used for both wire hacks to trigger the default codes. Or else you would not have that door open faster. You would not have the ignition [E = Eliminator turns to the hard cut] that moves faster as well. Sort of like an electronic vacuum advance without a distributor diaphragm when you let the clutch out and load the engine a little. We be matching the speed opening of the door/sub :laugh: :whistle:
 
Have you ever looked at a kawi and suzuki gps sensor side by side and measured resistance values for each gear? I have, and they work opposite of each other. I've actually worked on 100s of gps sensors. Get out a voltmeter and measure voltage on a suzuki gps circuit in 1st and then 6th gear. You will see that 1st gear is much lower voltage than 6th. Who says kawi can't look for 0 volts or any other criteria to determine sensor has failed vs suzuki looking for 5 volts on its pullup wire to determine failure. I am not arguing any more, get out a volt meter and measure yourself.
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And yes the ECU has many different fuel & ignition tables, by changing the gear (either by fooling the ECU) or by actually putting the bike in a different gear, you get different ignition and fuel tables, thats a fact my friend. The reason people like TRE's is that by putting the gps sensor into 5th gear, you put the ecu into the 5th gear timing tables (which are more advanced at low rpm low throttle) then the lower gears are, which people like. it also puts you into the 5th gear fueling tables, which provides more fuel due to ram air compensation, which in my opinion in the WRONG way to go and the reason I hate TRE's so much.

To de-restrict your bike you never want to send 6th gear to the ECU, as suzuki brings in the limiter 800 or so rpms early in 6th gear to keep you from going 186 mph with stock gearing stock tire etc. Kawasaki's inflict the 186 mph limiter with the speedo signal, so to de-restrict a kawasaki you need to not the speedo signal exceed 186 mph, either with a yellow box, speedo healer, or not one of the teeth off the pickup for the speedo sensor etc.
 
Nanny nanny boo boo, I'm rubber and you're glue.
Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you !:rofl::poke:
 
Like the crank sensor, the ECU waits for the " 8 ~ Cranking count." If you knocked off a tone wheel tooth off the end of the crank signal, the bike would not run because it lost that count.

You apply the same theory to the lost speed count. Thus, you break the limiter [speedo's counting] loop. Wink-Wink. :whistle:

Pretty basic stuff. Walk that practical event of counting is more or less the same 3wV of said wire out/connector off/short to ground. :rulez:

Like I said, FI does not need a speedo to run. Does not need a TPS/IAP/GPS/02 sensor/Pressure sensor/Intake air temp sensor. The "Method" takes over for those. And with the loss of the GPS and Speed sensor, so goes the limiter.

Because all the bike needs to run is technically, the crank sensor and ECU. :thumbsup:

Eyes loves how simple FI works :bowdown:
 
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Here is a short "SmithEAReens" video of the GPS hack in action... :rulez: Give me an O.... Give me an H.... Give me an M...... WATTS DAT SPELZ? WHathat Spell?

- GPSub AC Gate Systems .wmv[/url]
 
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Here is a short "SmithEAReens" video of the GPS hack in action... :rulez: Give me an O.... Give me an H.... Give me an M...... WATTS DAT SPELZ? WHathat Spell?

- GPSub AC Gate Systems .wmv[/url]

Isn't that for the Gen 1 ... gen II looks different. Not sure how that applies since there are so many differences in the ECU's.
 
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Isn't that for the Gen 1 ... gen II looks different. Not sure how that applies since there are so many differences in the ECU's.

For generic demonstrations, this is a Kawi with subthrottles. The Busa gate flapper has not changed the air cleaner design since 1999. So, any GPS will fall victim to the 6-Locked [TRE hack] as per FSM since the first gen was introduced. So says the very first shop manual.

The practical is not that hard to understand. Let's use a house lamp. Say you forgot to plug it in the wall = Connectors not connected = No light. Say there is a wire cut on one side of the lamp cord = No Light. Say the filament is blown = No Light.

There are plenty more 'root' problems with the bulb being screwed into the lamp, or no current out of the wall socket. We want this concept to be the raw-data as in the basics to understanding how simple FI is when it comes to a fail-safe code happening to a sensor.

Therefore, how generic can you change the basic concept of a lamp? Say, we now place a wall switch that is a dim-switch which acts the linear as you twist the TPS.
How simple is the concept that the light switch is On or Off as far as using a basic wall switch? Make sense?

Now, you apply that concept as "Analog sensors are ON" or switched OFF is the 'Fail-Safe." No ohm resistor will switch the analog back on, being you added a resistor that is stationary in one position and not in a rheostat movement.

Fundamental basics is how you TRE up an elixir and/or learn, "The Method."
Being 'Book Savvy' is how not to have the wool pulled over you = 3wV.
 
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