B@DA$$08BUS@
Donating Member
OMG, I can't believe this thread is still going. How much must we beat the dead horse.......
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XTRE....Good or Bad ?
- Thread starter Blanca BusaLess
- Start date
Got-Busa?
Donating Member
Actually there is more info in this thread about the function/changes of a TRE ON A GEN-II than any other. I'm glad someone is hashing it out because I don't have the time.... 
P.S....obviously people still don't understand or we wouldn't have these threads ever other week...
P.S....obviously people still don't understand or we wouldn't have these threads ever other week...
Maybe it's because you folks can't make up your mind that people keep asking the same questions ! Do a search on same subject and you wind up with the same . 50/50 split between professors and no real concensus on the matter . Not a single thread regarding this do all of you agree ? No offense 
Johnnycheese
Registered
and yet again let me post a fact..................
there is no timing changes so why would you want one????????
again snake oil
there is no timing changes so why would you want one????????
again snake oil
Dis Eariz my rendition of Booty's, Wee dunt need no stink kin Video; Inn Dis Put TiTill ON the table. TIT's OFF day shelf.
In the video, I throw a cup pull of switches on the fly. Trying to figure out what this TRE deal is all about is BS the Bull Chit Tears.
I blip that throttle, that advance moves with the IAP. I shift and all you see is a lot of throttle moves to match or mimic a vacuum advance.
Once you disable the GPS, which can be done 3 ways, you still see the advance lock in the same position. But you see a lot of action of the TPS and IAP.
You need to ask yourself if you need that GPS signal that drops 10 mpg. The gas has increased in the limp. Do we need more time to burn more fuel?
Are we in linear [method] advance the same way as in analog? Does the Method use their own maps; without sensor signal? The bike limps even more, another sensor goes out of service.
Corvette's ECM sees the tire pressures on the rim sensors not within range, it shuts down the throttle and the traction control so you cannot hot rod the car. It limps big time! Sounds like there is a performance loss in the generic FI limp in some ways. Another reason others choose not to use this limp and that controversy TRE thread continues.
smithabusa
Site Sponsor
so that video is in rebuttal to me showing you that what you were stating in regards to a suzuki gps sensor was incorrect?
everything is now so clear
everything is now so clear
TruWrecks
Banned
So, if a TRE will force the Busa to go into "limp mode" and run really rich, why did my Busa run at 13.4:1 on a dyno? I was also getting 40-45 MPG with an X-TRE installed. I lost less than 2 MPG adding just the X-TRE. I guess my X-TRE was defective because it still displayed the proper gear on the indicator.
smithabusa
Site Sponsor
Measuring across the red (signal wire) and black (signal ground at the gps sensor. The reason a kawasaki and suzuki behave oppositely is because a kawi sensor 1st gear is high resistance value and 6th gear is low, suzuki is the opposite. 2busa is feeding a lot of info but using kawi stuff which some of you on a hayabusa forum might find confusing. Lol.
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I would just simply like to see someone take a Busa and dyno it then install a XTRE/TRE without mental bias and properly tune bike with it then dyno to see if there is a measurable difference plus or minus and in what areas rpm wise ! Does that make sense ? I mean all the videos and statements are fine but how bout just some simple proof ! Put one on a bike with nothing else and say "see there you go it gained/lost power/torque with an XTRE installed backed up with printed dyno sheets". Y'all are right tons of threads regarding this issue but not a one has a simple test like this done ? 
Ideal is 14.7. The lower the number the richer A/Fratio. 17:1 is cruise for cars as well as the bike I know.
Blanco's 10mpg loss can be tested 3 ways. (1)Stock, (2)X-TRE only, or (3)PC only. Maybe the PC is taking out 8mpg and the X-TRE takes out the other 2mpg and you both match the hack. Gotta test that out.
There is no way around that limp. Thus the loss in fuel milage. Your sniffer was fed rich at 13:1 and that is fail-safe running with the other analog still sending in data.
Blanco's 10mpg loss can be tested 3 ways. (1)Stock, (2)X-TRE only, or (3)PC only. Maybe the PC is taking out 8mpg and the X-TRE takes out the other 2mpg and you both match the hack. Gotta test that out.
2busa please understand I did not lose 10mpg. I lost 10 miles per 4 gallons.
When stock I was getting 120 miles to first light. I would stop and fill. Fill up from first light(meaning first moment fuel light comes on) is always 4 gallons for Blanca.
Now plus 22hp after all my mods I get 110 miles to 4 gallons. So I have really only lost 2.5mpgs. Whether or not XTREs are good or bad I don't know many that would say no to +22hp and -2.5mpgs ? Also my gps still displays the correct gear all the time . It was one of the selling points of the unit.
Just want to clear that up.
When stock I was getting 120 miles to first light. I would stop and fill. Fill up from first light(meaning first moment fuel light comes on) is always 4 gallons for Blanca.
Now plus 22hp after all my mods I get 110 miles to 4 gallons. So I have really only lost 2.5mpgs. Whether or not XTREs are good or bad I don't know many that would say no to +22hp and -2.5mpgs ? Also my gps still displays the correct gear all the time . It was one of the selling points of the unit.
Just want to clear that up.
TruWrecks
Banned
13.4:1 is at WOT. I don't find that very rich when compared to stock it was 13.6:1 at WOT with the some other modifications. I'm still running the factory 02 sensor so the ECU is handling the fuel mix. I had a PC3, removed the CAT, X-TRE, Micron pipes and a K&N race filter the last time I had it dynoed. 13.4:1 was the AFR from that run. My bike would average 40-44 MPG all day on various types of roads.
10 MPG loss would mean the tuner set the bike to run pig rich, or the rider getting real peppy with the throttle.
10 MPG loss would mean the tuner set the bike to run pig rich, or the rider getting real peppy with the throttle.
Wrecks,
.2 AFR difference is still stepping rich if we are counting numbers/points. Tuning wise, the chase is for peak HP or torque; no matter the AFR.
Smitha,
I gotta ask; if your video was banging off the dash shift numbers with the X-TRE installed on your bike? My monitor is going and I could not see the ohm display running out the numbers when you shifted. So again, you were showing how the X-TRE is installed and watch the numbers on the dash... Correct?
And then my next question would be...
.2 AFR difference is still stepping rich if we are counting numbers/points. Tuning wise, the chase is for peak HP or torque; no matter the AFR.
Smitha,
I gotta ask; if your video was banging off the dash shift numbers with the X-TRE installed on your bike? My monitor is going and I could not see the ohm display running out the numbers when you shifted. So again, you were showing how the X-TRE is installed and watch the numbers on the dash... Correct?
And then my next question would be...
TruWrecks
Banned
Smitty was just showing that the voltage dropped across GPS resistors was increasing with the gear that was selected. He stated that the measurement taken was from the ECU signal output to ground. That indicates that the higher the gear, the higher the resistance of the GPS circuit.
smithabusa
Site Sponsor
NO, I hate TREs and will never use one on my bikes, never. My video simply showed the DC voltage the gps sensor is producing in each gear, oproving to you that a suzuki and kwakasucki sensor behave in an ipposite manner, that's it.
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Wreck, Smithy,
Thanks, Guys. You see how I tried to formulate one with the other? My next question was to think; Reverse Engineering? Blind side a step, I'm missing the walk!? I'm now trying to understand why they would reverse GPS values is not to step on each others lawyerage speak.
Suz uses, "Fail-Safe" and Kaw says "Backup" which both mean the same thing. I'm having fun trying to figure out the generic of fuel injection and that GPS. I would have to wire that boy up to see how she ticks. That Kawi is a mess of wire web as it is.
Suz/Kaw will not let you in on the goods of course. So, I have to more or less make my steps work for me so I can follow that stu pit azz FSM.
Either way, we dunt need no stink inn GPS to calc the fuel trim. I would still have to assume you have this practical event that can trim GPS in the reverse. And this rheostat at the TPS has to be in some reverse order? But I am getting off track chasing basic FI steps.
I'm going to take a ride in the TRE zone, tell Blanco my take on this limp. Blanco, I'm seeing Smithy has a strong opinion on the TRE. That is an honest sign telling me he knows that bike is off song in a way. Not a bad way, mind you.
Wreck seems to tell me, that hack is the cat's meow. That mod is more a lot of work eliminated with a simple plug-in. You do not want that headache I made where there is, 'no turning back.' You unplug the unit, you are good to go right back to stock. Clean and simple.
J-Cheeze is ... Now, he was ahead of the pack I started to read up on this TRE thing. And he too has a valid opinion to his post entry... 
That mantra of Cheeze is still the, "Gold Standard."
Thanks, Guys. You see how I tried to formulate one with the other? My next question was to think; Reverse Engineering? Blind side a step, I'm missing the walk!? I'm now trying to understand why they would reverse GPS values is not to step on each others lawyerage speak.
Suz uses, "Fail-Safe" and Kaw says "Backup" which both mean the same thing. I'm having fun trying to figure out the generic of fuel injection and that GPS. I would have to wire that boy up to see how she ticks. That Kawi is a mess of wire web as it is.
Suz/Kaw will not let you in on the goods of course. So, I have to more or less make my steps work for me so I can follow that stu pit azz FSM.
Either way, we dunt need no stink inn GPS to calc the fuel trim. I would still have to assume you have this practical event that can trim GPS in the reverse. And this rheostat at the TPS has to be in some reverse order? But I am getting off track chasing basic FI steps.
I'm going to take a ride in the TRE zone, tell Blanco my take on this limp. Blanco, I'm seeing Smithy has a strong opinion on the TRE. That is an honest sign telling me he knows that bike is off song in a way. Not a bad way, mind you.
Wreck seems to tell me, that hack is the cat's meow. That mod is more a lot of work eliminated with a simple plug-in. You do not want that headache I made where there is, 'no turning back.' You unplug the unit, you are good to go right back to stock. Clean and simple.
J-Cheeze is
... Now, he was ahead of the pack I started to read up on this TRE thing. And he too has a valid opinion to his post entry... That mantra of Cheeze is still the, "Gold Standard."smithabusa
Site Sponsor
If you want ram air compensated fueling YES you do want a GPS sensor. Meaning you get more fueling at 200 mph in 6th gear vs 80 mph in first gear, YES YOU WANT A STINKIN GEAR POSITION SENSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Smitha,
When I sit at idle and snap the throttle open, hit the rev limiter on the hard cut or say the 12,000 rpm rather than the soft 11,600 rpm cut fo argument sake; Did I need a ram air compensator, or did the TPS and CS feed the injector, no prob?
Once I'm hard, I think all safety valves will run the Method maps. After all, you had run over 200 by disabling the limiter way before there was a time you could flash the Busa's ECU.
You did see that advance never moved on the hack or back to stock, right? You run retard, you'll fire the bike backwards before it reaches TDC... Almost, [for argument sake].
smithabusa
Site Sponsor
what in the world does free revving a bike in neutral have to do with this discussion?
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