2024 LE at Moore Mafias

Procrastinator said:
For just general street riding, the Z-H2 variant of the H2 family is superb if you can get past the looks. I own one and with a full exhaust and ecu flash it puts out 229bhp at the rear wheel and has torque and power everywhere. All this while being 25 kilos lighter than the Busa.

I own a gen 3 busa as well and in the stock form it does not have the savage hit of the H2. I will get a full exhaust fitted and fueling sorted this spring and hopefully that will make a difference.
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I have two questions:
-What are the ergonomics like? It's totally unfair of me to do so, but I sort of equate the H2 with the BMW S1000R (or RR? Can't remember). And it was light and very potent but I just didn't like the way it felt between my knees in terms of either comfort or smoothness. On the same day I just rode a Yamaha MT1000, and it was like riding a stick of butter in comparison, smooth frame my knees just blended into, and a glassy power delivery that made you wait for the big hit but was effortless in application. What does the H2 FEEL like?
-Did you compare it or test ride any bikes with a V4? It's kind of the ultimate Gearhead connoisseur thing to close your eyes and simply feel the way a certain engine configuration feels under your fingers (hell, Harley has made a couple of billion doing just that), and the mathematical efficiency of that configuration I have to admit is pretty intoxicating. All I've test ridden is a Tuono, but ooooh, it felt pretty damn good. That 'sooner' torque thrust like a V-Twin, but without the drop off and with the power build of the inline 4. Again, I'm looking for a description of how it feels compared to a supercharged inline four. I could see them being actually quite similar. Basically I'm asking you to do an impression of a wine connoisseur, except for engine configuration. No worries if the request is too weird for you.
*Owning my gen 3 feels like I have Raquel Welch in a rabbit skin bikini. Very hard to imagine a motorcycle I would rather own, and that is a really good feeling. On the other hand I do have an imagination...
 
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1: You're sitting upright on the Z-H2 so it is quite comfortable. But there is no large screen or fairing to deflect the wind therefore wind protection is not as good as the Busa. Having said all that I have toured with both bikes, done track days and had fun. The engine on the H2 is smoother than the Busa. Doesn't mean Busa's engine is unrefined or anything like that. These are very minor differences.

2: Unfortunately I have not ridden a V4 but I have ridden my friend's 1290 Duke which is a V-Twin and that to me felt like it had better low down torque than the H2. Again, none of these bikes are lacking torque or power :).
 
dcnblues said:
I have two questions:
-What are the ergonomics like? It's totally unfair of me to do so, but I sort of equate the H2 with the BMW S1000R (or RR? Can't remember). And it was light and very potent but I just didn't like the way it felt between my knees in terms of either comfort or smoothness. On the same day I just rode a Yamaha MT1000, and it was like riding a stick of butter in comparison, smooth frame my knees just blended into, and a glassy power delivery that made you wait for the big hit but was effortless in application. What does the H2 FEEL like?
-Did you compare it or test ride any bikes with a V4? It's kind of the ultimate Gearhead connoisseur thing to close your eyes and simply feel the way a certain engine configuration feels under your fingers (hell, Harley has made a couple of billion doing just that), and the mathematical efficiency of that configuration I have to admit is pretty intoxicating. All I've test ridden is a Tuono, but ooooh, it felt pretty damn good. That 'sooner' torque thrust like a V-Twin, but without the drop off and with the power build of the inline 4. Again, I'm looking for a description of how it feels compared to a supercharged inline four. I could see them being actually quite similar. Basically I'm asking you to do an impression of a wine connoisseur, except for engine configuration. No worries if the request is too weird for you.
*Owning my gen 3 feels like I have Raquel Welch in a rabbit skin bikini. Very hard to imagine a motorcycle I would rather own, and that is a really good feeling. On the other hand I do have an imagination...
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The ZH2 is the bike @Procrastinator is referring to , the naked version

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. Just had a recent street drag meeting at a new tack in Sth Oz , where a ZH2 naked with Brocks extensions , an Adelaide streetbike , ran 8.9 second 1/4 mile @ 160mph . Quickest streeter out there that night , Include a picture of that fella on it and his time slip . Not bad at all , and more to come fro this lad , who is right into tuning bikes .
 
dcnblues said:
The problem is there's no really good video. The Ghost Rider stuff is 20 years old and shot with low res cameras on overpasses and such, so you can't verify the speed really. I could sort of see mid height at maybe 100-120, but I think we can all agree that the more wind and the higher the speed, the more the bike has to lean down into it. So if that's true, there's something going on aerodynamically I just don't understand. I don't understand how the bike could thrust into that wind if the torque Vector is pointing down into the ground at 40 or 45°. And I absolutely don't understand how the bike wouldn't flip. Or, and maybe this is true, at 150 or more it's possible to pull a mid height wheelie, but it can't be sustained and is basically a parachute rapidly slowing you down. The problem is there's no good video. I need to see it to believe it.
And we do need to work on the definition. Because if a wheelie is just a few inches off the ground, I've pulled thousands of those.
My problem maybe is that I'm a pilot. You get up to speed, you lift the nose, and the air lifts you off the ground. Usually at or below 100 mph. I understand the aerodynamics of the big motorcycle are different as you're dealing with an engine block wrapped in plastic, but that back axle freely rotates. If you had an F1 car with a tow rope hooked to the triple t, then I could understand a 150 or 200 mid height wheelie. Short of that I need to see it.
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I do not think you need to look too hard to find really good Ghost Rider footage , especially on the 500bhp Busa , that is insane footage mate , right there . It is easy to sit back behind a screen , and to armchair critique it , with admittedly no actual personal wheelie experience , I think you might want to do some more research and let us know then . Good luck mate .
 
ROADTOAD1340 said:
I do not think you need to look too hard to find really good Ghost Rider footage , especially on the 500bhp Busa , that is insane footage mate , right there . It is easy to sit back behind a screen , and to armchair critique it , with admittedly no actual personal wheelie experience , I think you might want to do some more research and let us know then . Good luck mate .
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I'm not some kid playing video games. This conversation has moved from high angle balance point and low speed stunt skills into the low floating of the front tire under max power into 100 mph or more wind. I have experience with that. And certainly floating the front under full throttle at a variety of speeds. I think I've only ridden my two busas a few times where that hasn't happened. The Hayabusa stability takes care of you when you get that lift-off. It's a reassuring bike. And okay if you can float that front tire and inch off the ground for a minute or a kilometer or whatever that's technically a wheelie, but in my book only technically. I've felt it, and it's not balancing the bike between throttle adjustments and the rear brake. It's the wind lifting the bike body and 500 plus pounds pulling it back down with an aerodynamically intangible stability. In my book we're simply talking about two different animals.

As I've said, really good verifiable video is hard to produce and find. Professional drag racing is really hard to watch on TV. Even with professional camera operators and equipment you can't judge the speed on a small screen. This all stems from somebody saying they had their wheel two feet off the ground at 150. I'm saying I don't see how it's possible. A few inches yes, and maybe at a 100 or 120mph, but there is a speed with a front tire can't get any higher without becoming a parachute under chopped power, or the bike won't flip if still at full throttle. The relationship between front tire altitude and speed is apparent to anybody with sport bike experience. That 200 mph footage I posted earlier, balancing and holding those few inches against the wind, is brass balls and aerodynamics I would love to see wind tunnel simulation replicate. But a category 5 hurricane (157mph) picks up cars and flings them like they are children's toys. I'd have to see a mid-level wheelie at that speed (or more) to believe it.
 
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Procrastinator said:
1: You're sitting upright on the Z-H2 so it is quite comfortable. But there is no large screen or fairing to deflect the wind therefore wind protection is not as good as the Busa. Having said all that I have toured with both bikes, done track days and had fun. The engine on the H2 is smoother than the Busa. Doesn't mean Busa's engine is unrefined or anything like that. These are very minor differences.

2: Unfortunately I have not ridden a V4 but I have ridden my friend's 1290 Duke which is a V-Twin and that to me felt like it had better low down torque than the H2. Again, none of these bikes are lacking torque or power :).
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Hmm that brings up another question. I'm assuming the supercharger on the TTS doesn't really affect the balance shaft (Busa engine just has the one I think). I assume the Kawasaki inline 4 also has a balance shaft. But if anybody knows whether adding the supercharger requires mods or tweaks to the balancing internals, do share.
 
dcnblues said:
I'm not some kid playing video games. This conversation has moved from high angle balance point and low speed stunt skills into the low floating of the front tire under max power into 100 mph or more wind. I have experience with that. And certainly floating the front under full throttle at a variety of speeds. I think I've only ridden my two busas a few times where that hasn't happened. The Hayabusa stability takes care of you when you get that lift-off. It's a reassuring bike. And okay if you can float that front tire and inch off the ground for a minute or a kilometer or whatever that's technically a wheelie, but in my book only technically. I've felt it, and it's not balancing the bike between throttle adjustments and the rear brake. It's the wind lifting the bike body and 500 plus pounds pulling it back down with an aerodynamically intangible stability. In my book we're simply talking about two different animals.

As I've said, really good verifiable video is hard to produce and find. Professional drag racing is really hard to watch on TV. Even with professional camera operators and equipment you can't judge the speed on a small screen. This all stems from somebody saying they had their wheel two feet off the ground at 150. I'm saying I don't see how it's possible. A few inches yes, and maybe at a 100 or 120mph, but there is a speed with a front tire can't get any higher without becoming a parachute under chopped power, or the bike won't flip if still at full throttle. The relationship between front tire altitude and speed is apparent to anybody with sport bike experience. That 200 mph footage I posted earlier, balancing and holding those few inches against the wind, is brass balls and aerodynamics I would love to see wind tunnel simulation replicate. But a category 5 hurricane (157mph) picks up cars and flings them like they are children's toys. I'd have to see a mid-level wheelie at that speed (or more) to believe it.
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I actually remember you stating that high speed wheelies 150 mph+ could not be real or possible or something... your words again anyway .
Well , the fastest wheelies are always lower height , because of the windforce you need to defeat , the faster you go . So , these bikes are generally turbo or whatever and big power motors , that push the un aerodynamic motorcycle ( when monowheeling in this case ) up to very high speeds , while monowheeling . The power needed would be the determining factor of the wheelie speed , and wind resistance , bikes aero will be fighting / bleeding off that power . Off note , these events would not allow
The people organizing these speed events , and the pro racetrack venues , have sensors and cameras setup to record real time speeds etc. , the Guinness Book Of Records , verifies that world wheelie event , so I think it will be okay to trust the results , and for Chris Moores drag wheelie , that whole run was scrutinized , and accepted the world over . That even came up pretty high , taking in account the ultra long wheelbase .
Off note , all these riders that run a fast wheelie , use the rear brake and throttle to throttle the bike up and keep it up , but also , rear brake to control the height and control the balance point . All things learnt and mastered by these amazing riders .
If you watch that wheelie machine vid you like , the instructor is always telling the dudes to stand on the rear brake .
 
ROADTOAD1340 said:
The world wheelie record wouldn't run an event in adverse , dangerous wind conditions , so they compete in conditions that these fast machines will top out to maximum speed . Sorry , I didnt add this to the above post .
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Hi. Do not forget Moor's wae done on a preped track very very stickie. Bike even long WB ones can flip over they can also have the rear wheel be off of the ground when they flip. When I raced in Pro Stock cats when we pulled the wheels up were not making good HP off of the line could not spin the tires we needed to spin a few feet off of the start line.
 
I found the video below, is this the sort of wheelie set up used to train people how to wheelie?

It makes sense to have such a thing but in my opinion it doesn't equate to real life where there's uneven roads, wind and other such issues to deal with while on one tire.....

In my opinion, when someone comes from this sort of device with false confidence and aren't real careful, they will crash their bike for sure...

 
Since I'm the somebody talking about the 150mph wheelie...and the somebody that's Done It, let me just say,
I Love when guys who have never done something know everything about it, and come here and tell us all about it!
Don't yall?
lol
 
Bumblebee said:
To me that thing on the trailer is like learning how to race on a track using this thing....

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Me too, I'de be as good as I am at that video game as I am on a wheelie machine...not very, lol
The wheelie machine to me felt like trying to wheelie on ice with street tires.
You are trying to balance vertically between 2 rollers, with no forward momentum, vs a tire grabbing asphalt
(you know what wheelies feel like).
The grip and feel is completely different.
 
sixpack577 said:
Me too, I'de be as good as I am at that video game as I am on a wheelie machine...not very, lol
The wheelie machine to me felt like trying to wheelie on ice with street tires.
You are trying to balance vertically between 2 rollers, with no forward momentum, vs a tire grabbing asphalt
(you know what wheelies feel like).
The grip and feel is completely different.
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We had rifle range simulators in the military and I have taken people to a live outdoor conventional range who were rock stars in the simulator yet struggled on the live ranges....the indoor simulated range didn't take into account temperature variations, wind and uncomfortable firing positions....we also have to run while on the outdoor ranges...

I'm sure if we took the "Call of Duty" masters out to a real battlefield they would most likely crap their pants....

I would imagine a similar experience of being on a trailer or in a simulator and then going out on live streets/tracks........
 
When I see a person on a wheelie machine doing this and thinking of them trying this technique on the street...all I see is a crash...

Doing this on a controlled/strapped down environment and then doing this on a real road are 2 different animals...

 
Nobody seems to read what I actually write or click on the links I provide.
I will repeat that I don't think at 150 or more you can have a mid-level wheelie two feet off the ground or more. So I don't know whether people agree that wheelies get shorter with speed over 120 or not?
I very much doubt the same kind of Rapid throttle movements and rear brake engagements are used by the few guys doing the 2-inch 200 mph wheelies. With that much wind it would be minute body and weight shifts with a constant throttle.
I've also been repeatedly criticized for talking about things that I don't have experience with. So let's see hands in the air from people who've actually been on the wheelie machine?
If it comes to California and doesn't cost too much I'd like to try it. And I might buy a cheap used wheelchair, as being able to hold the balance point on one is excellent and relevant practice, advice given to me by the guy who can ride a motorcycle standing backwards on it, better credentials than anyone on this forum. Any replies screaming at me that I have no idea what I'm talking about I probably won't pay much attention to. People have been both putting words in my mouth and not understanding the points I'm making, so this thread has pretty much lost my interest.
 
dcnblues said:
Nobody seems to read what I actually write or click on the links I provide.
I will repeat that I don't think at 150 or more you can have a mid-level wheelie two feet off the ground or more. So I don't know whether people agree that wheelies get shorter with speed over 120 or not?
I very much doubt the same kind of Rapid throttle movements and rear brake engagements are used by the few guys doing the 2-inch 200 mph wheelies. With that much wind it would be minute body and weight shifts with a constant throttle.
I've also been repeatedly criticized for talking about things that I don't have experience with. So let's see hands in the air from people who've actually been on the wheelie machine?
If it comes to California and doesn't cost too much I'd like to try it. And I might buy a cheap used wheelchair, as being able to hold the balance point on one is excellent and relevant practice, advice given to me by the guy who can ride a motorcycle standing backwards on it, better credentials than anyone on this forum. Any replies screaming at me that I have no idea what I'm talking about I probably won't pay much attention to. People have been both putting words in my mouth and not understanding the points I'm making, so this thread has pretty much lost my interest.
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Mate I have ridden many wheelchairs on the back wheel , balance point , both in hospital and out , I know what I'm doing there ,so my opinion has got to count . Here is a picture of me at the impressionable age of 14 , skilled after already intensive training , learning on wheelchairs on the 3 stooges ward , but on my way back for lots more wheelchair lessons , i just dont actually know it then .

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You can clearly see the wheel is mid height already , and the wheelie bar ripple shoes are about to locate the pegs and I am increasing the speed.... , that 125cc Honda got me illegally around when I often bludged school . My middle brother would carelessly , forget to hide the keys .
 
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