Afghanistan....

Trump didn't "Release" any racists on this country. To say that as a black man is to say every black and non-white Trump supporter is a racist...which would make You the racist Arch.
Nice to talk to you again too...directly from my "cave".
I'm white, I'm the problem...right??
I call terrorists "savages"...how awful...right?
It's only white men that do mass shootings, right? Wrong.
Terrorists haven't bothered anyone here in 15 years...there's a ****ing mosque at Ground Zero...a forever Reminder of who did it, and why.
They ARE Savages, let em burn.
What Trump did or didn't do is now fodder for the history books...

As for the ideology of a religion (Islam), Islamic people are not terrorists...people are terrorists using whatever platform they can grasp...I'm sure the people of Islam just didn't show up one day and start building a mosque..this had to have been ordained from a higher authority....

Just think how the former fighters of the Japanese Imperial military feel that we are riding Japanese motorcycles and driving Japanese cars...if they held a grudge or thought as this, there would have been no need for a Hayabusa forum.....

Lots of people driving Volkswagons, Mercedes and BMWs....and the founding nation killed millions of people...

Life trudges on......
 
I case you haven't been out of the cave in a few, the number #1 source of terror in this country is white supremacists. We haven't had a major Islamic terrorist act linked to any of these major actors in well over 15 years. Note, however, the forces (WS, Natsees, etc.) released on this country by our illustrious former

You are entitled to that of course...

You and I probably have really different life experiences...which is a good thing.

My experiences have had me in direct contact with Taliban (and other extremists) and that has allowed me to see things with another light...most of the fighters I encountered were very intelligent but many were young and scared but determined and proud. That they had the ability to handle Special Operations forces is something to think about...many times they were able to out-guess spec ops groups and repel them...

As for the southern states, I was kind of referring to the ones who still think the war between the states is still waging and they didn't lose...show up at one of those honky tonks wearing anything but white skin and see how that goes...

I will reiterate, the term "savage" for any group is not something that belongs in the 21st century...along with many other derogatory terms...

Look, I agree on the difference in perspective.
I agree that I cannot truly know what anything is like that I have not experienced first hand.
My stance is directly backed up by battle hardened infantry Marines, Marines that I am happy and grateful to call friends.
My stance is not that the Taliban are incompetant fighters, and yeah, I bet it IS hard even for SpecOps to fight an enemy and culture that is a struggle to understand. And yes, I Can respect their ability and dedication, that would be hard to argue.
You seem to be a reasonable man, and I will absoloutely and happily give you Your Entitled Repsect as a soldier, and I will sincerily Thank You for your service to your own country, and as an allie to my country.
I would be willing to bet that your job required things of you that you would rather not have had to do, but duty calls, and it's them, or you and your team.
And, I'de be even more willing to bet that you treat your family and women with respect and dignity, that you are an honorable man, as that is how you present yourself.
The Taliban, maybe an equal foe and opposing force against you and our allies at certain times.
The difference is, women and children are their property to do with as they wish.
That sir IS Savage.
 
The Taliban said,
They will support women's rights...under Sharia Law.
You know, beatings for disobedence, honor killings, good stuff like that.
I got to thinking about this post while washing my truck...

There are many nations who practice Sharia Law and what is being done to save the people there? Nothing is a word which comes to mind.....

If Bin Laden didn't have al Queda networks set up in Afghanistan the coalition would have never gone there and not a word would be mentioned of their plight...the flavor of the week are the sad videos and pictures coming from Afghanistan showing the woe-begotten people. The coalition (primarily the US) introduced western culture to Afghanistan back in the late '80s while they backed the Afghans against the Soviet Union and then again this go around....

Unless the US wants to take on Afghanistan as a sovereign state and inject thousands of troops and a good, strong puppet government in there, the fate of the country will be what we see on TV.

There has to be some long term thought going into the pre-operation planning stage....what will we do after the war is spent out?? It was easy in WW2 as the nation(s) destroyed worked to rebuild..
 
Look, I agree on the difference in perspective.
I agree that I cannot truly know what anything is like that I have not experienced first hand.
My stance is directly backed up by battle hardened infantry Marines, Marines that I am happy and grateful to call friends.
My stance is not that the Taliban are incompetant fighters, and yeah, I bet it IS hard even for SpecOps to fight an enemy and culture that is a struggle to understand. And yes, I Can respect their ability and dedication, that would be hard to argue.
You seem to be a reasonable man, and I will absoloutely and happily give you Your Entitled Repsect as a soldier, and I will sincerily Thank You for your service to your own country, and as an allie to my country.
I would be willing to bet that your job required things of you that you would rather not have had to do, but duty calls, and it's them, or you and your team.
And, I'de be even more willing to bet that you treat your family and women with respect and dignity, that you are an honorable man, as that is how you present yourself.
The Taliban, maybe an equal foe and opposing force against you and our allies at certain times.
The difference is, women and children are their property to with as they wish.
That sir IS Savage.
The Taliban people are very loyal and dedicated to their families....they protect them fiercely but their ways of life are vastly different than what we are used to and for many to accept. Their culture pre-dates western culture.

You have to know, I was not part of the conventional forces....my experiences will differ vastly from conventional forces such as the Marines....many of which only saw a Taliban soldier as a target, one of my tasks was to gain intelligence and I saw Taliban soldiers as opportunities to gather such intelligence. We tried to capture as many as we could instead of killing them....and we were very effective.
 
Well this esclated quickly, I think domestic terriosm is extremely complicated and clump them as white supremacists is odd. Either way whites have committed 66 mass shootings since 1982 to 2021 black have committed 21 from 1982 to 2021 now if we look at the population difference per capita whites have roughly 236.5 million people in America black have roughly 42 million, white per capita make up 0.00000027 of mass shooting per capita and black make up 0.0000005 of mass shootings per capita, you cant put blame on a single race we are union in most countries. The word supremacists are only dedicated for true supremacists not just some wack job crazy white guy who fell off his rocker one day and shoot up a mall.
Good discussion points as I see it.....

Leave out the name calling and finger-pointing and grown ups can have a good conversation...
 
I got to thinking about this post while washing my truck...

There are many nations who practice Sharia Law and what is being done to save the people there? Nothing is a word which comes to mind.....

If Bin Laden didn't have al Queda networks set up in Afghanistan the coalition would have never gone there and not a word would be mentioned of their plight...the flavor of the week are the sad videos and pictures coming from Afghanistan showing the woe-begotten people. The coalition (primarily the US) introduced western culture to Afghanistan back in the late '80s while they backed the Afghans against the Soviet Union and then again this go around....

Unless the US wants to take on Afghanistan as a sovereign state and inject thousands of troops and a good, strong puppet government in there, the fate of the country will be what we see on TV.

There has to be some long term thought going into the pre-operation planning stage....what will we do after the war is spent out?? It was easy in WW2 as the nation(s) destroyed worked to rebuild..

I agree.
I think the majority of what we see and are told in the media is political propeganda, and intentionally divisive.
I know it is to intentionally pit one group against the other, and regardless of who does what(or doesn't) there will be war and hatred until the end of days.
I just cannot call Evil people like the Taliban anything other than what they are, and savage is one of few good adjectives.
I love my daughter...I'de Kill anyone who would harm her...and without regard for myself. Yet if I change my religeon, and I say her head is not covered, I will kill her for my honor...I'm supposed to excuse that as my religeon, or it's ok because I'm ignorant.
Again, there are obviously good people in Afghanastan opposed to this...but the Taliban is Enforcing it.
Giving them a pass as "not savages" only enables them, and helps sway the masses into thinking they're not so bad.
 
I agree.
I think the majority of what we see and are told in the media is political propeganda, and intentionally divisive.
I know it is to intentionally pit one group against the other, and regardless of who does what(or doesn't) there will be war and hatred until the end of days.
I just cannot call Evil people like the Taliban anything other than what they are, and savage is one of few good adjectives.
I love my daughter...I'de Kill anyone who would harm her...and without regard for myself. Yet if I change my religeon, and I say her head is not covered, I will kill her for my honor...I'm supposed to excuse that as my religeon, or it's ok because I'm ignorant.
Again, there are obviously good people in Afghanastan opposed to this...but the Taliban is Enforcing it.
Giving them a pass as "not savages" only enables them, and helps sway the masses into thinking they're not so bad.
Well, I've been all over this round dust-ball and have seen far too much to allow what the Taliban believe or think faze me too much....crazily enough, there are far worse people out there...

Mostly what Sharia Law does is protect women...crazy as it sounds...it protects them against being accosted by males outside their homes. You would have to understand a bit of the Islamic faith to understand this but men are not allowed to touch women until they are married so in instance, there are a lot of horny young men out there who if given the chance would rape a woman in a heart beat..

Having a woman cover herself hides her beauty from them and having them escorted by a male member of the household keeps men away from her....if she strays, she doesn't get a divorce, she gets taken out...

Harsh yes, is it our way, no.....but it is the way of millions of people in many countries.
 
The Taliban people are very loyal and dedicated to their families....they protect them fiercely but their ways of life are vastly different than what we are used to and for many to accept. Their culture pre-dates western culture.

You have to know, I was not part of the conventional forces....my experiences will differ vastly from conventional forces such as the Marines....many of which only saw a Taliban soldier as a target, one of my tasks was to gain intelligence and I saw Taliban soldiers as opportunities to gather such intelligence. We tried to capture as many as we could instead of killing them....and we were very effective.

I know their culture predates western civilazation, but if that's their excuse...then all the liberals need to
A. Go and rescue these All womem and children.
B. Keep All the foreigners that do not wish to conform to other countries laws, in their own countries.
C. Forget all about it, do nothing, and just condone it.
D. Condone it as old practice and say it's ok. To which I ask "Can we then just revert fully back to cavemen? Next cute women I see; can I club her over the head and drag her home as mine?
Not a far stretch when you are betroved child brides as property...no club needed.
 
Well, I've been all over this round dust-ball and have seen far too much to allow what the Taliban believe or think faze me too much....crazily enough, there are far worse people out there...

Mostly what Sharia Law does is protect women...crazy as it sounds...it protects them against being accosted by males outside their homes. You would have to understand a bit of the Islamic faith to understand this but men are not allowed to touch women until they are married so in instance, there are a lot of horny young men out there who if given the chance would rape a woman in a heart beat..

Having a woman cover herself hides her beauty from them and having them escorted by a male member of the household keeps men away from her....if she strays, she doesn't get a divorce, she gets taken out...

Harsh yes, is it our way, no.....but it is the way of millions of people in many countries.
I do understand that much about their religeon, and I do agree that there are bigger threats.
Belive it or not, I worry about nothing.
I put my faith in God, do what I can, and come what may.
I am a Christian, and as you can well see, a hypocrit, sinner, and a screw-up.
I am every person's equal, am self-confident, but do not hold myself in high regard.
I belive in equality and fairness.
I belive the leaders of this world are purposely pitting us against one another, as united we stand, divided we fall.
 
I know their culture predates western civilazation, but if that's their excuse...then all the liberals need to
A. Go and rescue these All womem and children.
B. Keep All the foreigners that do not wish to conform to other countries laws, in their own countries.
C. Forget all about it, do nothing, and just condone it.
D. Condone it as old practice and say it's ok. To which I ask "Can we then just revert fully back to cavemen? Next cute women I see; can I club her over the head and drag her home as mine?
Not a far stretch when you are betroved child brides as property...no club needed.
Most of your letter groups are not realistic...

My answer to all is....who are WE as people of western culture to go into any other country and tell them how to live?

Most of my other posts were either not read or ignored as I explained your points in those posts...take some time and go read them and you will see my point.....

Would I invite a Taliban fighter to a backyard BBQ....no.....would I respect their way of life......not really but what choice do we have....they have this ideology ingrained into them and even with generational fade, it will not be going away any time soon...certainly not in my life-time.

There are people living right here in North America who take child brides and live in polygamist states...what is being done about that? Nothing is what and that's right here...

Try going into a foreign country and tell them what to do and see where that gets you...you had better be prepared to fight a war...
 
I do understand that much about their religeon, and I do agree that there are bigger threats.
Belive it or not, I worry about nothing.
I put my faith in God, do what I can, and come what may.
I am a Christian, and as you can well see, a hypocrit, sinner, and a screw-up.
I am every person's equal, am self-confident, but do not hold myself in high regard.
I belive in equality and fairness.
I belive the leaders of this world are purposely pitting us against one another, as united we stand, divided we fall.
I'm a Christian as well although not a true practicing Christian...

I recall once while on an OP with a Turkish Commando, it was during Ramadan....he took out a granola bar around lunch time and I asked him if he was supposed to be fasting right now....he said "it's Friday right?" I said "yeah", he said "didn't you just eat meat and aren't you supposed to not eat meat on Friday?" I said "not really I suppose"

He said "I'm Muslim but nobody said I'm a good one.."
 
Most of your letter groups are not realistic...

My answer to all is....who are WE as people of western culture to go into any other country and tell them how to live?

Most of my other posts were either not read or ignored as I explained your points in those posts...take some time and go read them and you will see my point.....

Would I invite a Taliban fighter to a backyard BBQ....no.....would I respect their way of life......not really but what choice do we have....they have this ideology ingrained into them and even with generational fade, it will not be going away any time soon...certainly not in my life-time.

There are people living right here in North America who take child brides and live in polygamist states...what is being done about that? Nothing is what and that's right here...

Try going into a foreign country and tell them what to do and see where that gets you...you had better be prepared to fight a war...

My letter points were not meant to be realistic. They were to imply the impossibility of doing just that.
If I were the president or in charge, I would not see it as My place, or anyone else's place to try to tell another country how to handle it's business...assuming they keep Their business in Their country.
Are there groups as bad or worse in other places, including the U.S and Canada too?
Yep, and they are savages too.
I also Did read all of your posts, and do see your points, and belive it or not, I really don't think our veiws are that far apart.
I handle individual people on an individual basis, and I want to meet the individual Before I formulate an opinion of them(which IS different than judging someone).
 
Last edited:
I'm a Christian as well although not a true practicing Christian...

I recall once while on an OP with a Turkish Commando, it was during Ramadan....he took out a granola bar around lunch time and I asked him if he was supposed to be fasting right now....he said "it's Friday right?" I said "yeah", he said "didn't you just eat meat and aren't you supposed to not eat meat on Friday?" I said "not really I suppose"

He said "I'm Muslim but nobody said I'm a good one.."
My folks taught me Faith and Belife in Jesus Christ/Almighty God(My belife, as I will share it if asked, but impose it on no one).
I was also taught to beware of Man's religeon. If you chose to fast on a certain day out of reverence, that is fine...but not fasting doesn't somehow make you a bad person.
I was raised in the Catholic church..
but told to beware of Confession.
Why? Because it can be good if you just need a shoulder or support...but I do Not need another person to go to God on my behalf.
This is the same church that sold Indulgences in the Middle Ages.
What's my point?
Corruption is everywhere, especially under the guise of religeon.
At least my "religeon" teaches 'Do unto others as you would have done unto you'.
2/3 of the Koran teaches to convert or kill the infedels(everyone other than them) on your way to conquering the world for alah.
I read til my eyes bled on this subject trying to gain understanding of it...and cannot.
So no, I am unsympathetic to terrorists...and I think every terrorist of Every race, religeon, color, or creed is, yep, you guessed it, a savage, imposing their will on others however they see fit.
 
My folks taught me Faith and Belife in Jesus Christ/Almighty God(My belife, as I will share it if asked, but impose it on no one).
I was also taught to beware of Man's religeon. If you chose to fast on a certain day out of reverence, that is fine...but not fasting doesn't somehow make you a bad person.
I was raised in the Catholic church..
but told to beware of Confession.
Why? Because it can be good if you just need a shoulder or support...but I do Not need another person to go to God on my behalf.
This is the same church that sold Indulgences in the Middle Ages.
What's my point?
Corruption is everywhere, especially under the guise of religeon.
At least my "religeon" teaches 'Do unto others as you would have done unto you'.
2/3 of the Koran teaches to convert or kill the infedels(everyone other than them) on your way to conquering the world for alah.
I read til my eyes bled on this subject trying to gain understanding of it...and cannot.
So no, I am unsympathetic to terrorists...and I think every terrorist of Every race, religeon, color, or creed is, yep, you guessed it, a savage, imposing their will on others however they see fit.
I agree with everything except the use of the word "savage" as it offends me due to my heritage...
 
I agree with everything except the use of the word "savage" as it offends me due to my heritage...

Please explain that with detail to me then(and I say that respectfully without meaning to pry or wanting talk about sensative personal issues).
I just can't put 2 and 2 together otherwise, as no part of the man I'm speaking with has anything savage about him, so the offense in your heritage I cannot see, as I simply do not and could not know.
 
Please explain that with detail to me then(and I say that respectfully without meaning to pry or wanting talk about sensative personal issues).
I just can't put 2 and 2 together otherwise, as no part of the man I'm speaking with has anything savage about him, so the offense in your heritage I cannot see, as I simply do not and could not know.
I mentioned it in one of my posts earlier that I'm indigenous and that term was referenced towards my fore-fathers by white settlers who ravaged and plundered the "new world"
 
"Savage" was also a derogatory term to describe my fore-fathers and their people...

Being indigenous myself, I don't care for that term to be used to describe a people of whom we disagree to their ways and lifestyle...

Line 1 of your definition says it...
Yep, I understand now and respect that. Your ancestors have one foot in Europe though, if I recall?
 
Yep, I understand now and respect that. Your ancestors have one foot in Europe though, if I recall?
Actually my wife did our family tree and like most people we are "Heinz 57s..." but I am a card carrying indigenous person.

My indigenous grandmother was called a "savage" for much of her life and my mother was in a residential school...
 
I case you haven't been out of the cave in a few, the number #1 source of terror in this country is white supremacists. We haven't had a major Islamic terrorist act linked to any of these major actors in well over 15 years. Note, however, the forces (WS, Natsees, etc.) released on this country by our illustrious former President are very Taliban-like.
Chicago statistics on homicides will disagree with you Arch.
 
I mentioned it in one of my posts earlier that I'm indigenous and that term was referenced towards my fore-fathers by white settlers who ravaged and plundered the "new world"
Ok, I will take that as enough detail.
My father's grandmother was Cherokee, full blood(married a white guy, who da thunk it, lol).
I was the "Irish Bug" in school, as said my Ma's from N Ireland.
I can see that if your family was directly called a savage that it would upset you, which was Not my intention.
My interpretation of history sees native Americans helping settlers, many on both sides wanting peace, but as always, devisive folks on both sides ruined it(as you see we learn little to nothing from history).
A Native American is Not a savage to me, that title IS horrible, and needs reserved for the worst of the worst..like the Taliban.
I try to always look at the individual, so in your case, I can see your problem with the word, but again, just know it wasn't sent maliciously in your direction.
I respect people like you just based on conversation, and until this thread, I had no clue of your heritage, color, religeon, just that you are a soldier and our neighbor, who rides bikes...and that should show that color, race, heritage, etc are of little signifcance to me(respectfully) as I want to know the person, not what they appear to be.
And with that said, I will(out of respect) not use that word in any future conversations with you. And not from a sissy safe space place, but I'll rank it as racist and disrespectful to you, as it is.
Is that how I see the Taliban? Yep
Is that how I see you and your heritage?
Nope.
I would like to think this drawn out discussion can show how close 2 peoples' thought process can be, yet one detail can significantly derail an otherwise well intentioned conversation.
And that if we all(myself included) would take the time to hear the other side out, we would end up with Alot more compromise and probably some unexpected agreements.
 
Back
Top