And the Govt fires the first shot over the bow of health care

[Dino]

BS...healthcare now isn't between patient and doctor. Throw in the fed govt
and you just made it ten times snafu.

I had insomnia (big time) got perscribed lunesta. Pay...I dunno $1500 a year
for health insurance. Make 1, singe, UNO trip to the doctor in the whole year.
Get the above persctiption. I go to get it filled, the insurance company bumped
it saying it was to expensive and refused to fill it. Some pencilneck 1000
miles away with probalby NO medical degree whatsoever has decided I
do not need the perscription. The doctor is totally removed from the equation
and it happens all the time.

SO here I am pised off as hell at 3:00 in the morning staring at the ceiling.

And somehow you think geting the Feds involved is going to make this better.

History shows wealth is always redistributed when it becomes concentrated in the hands of a few, hopefully it will be peaceful this time.

Sorry (seriously) to hear about your issues with your insurance company. This is exactly why I believe health care should be universal, remove the profit motive fix the costs and focus on curing the patients. I don't mind paying more in taxes if I get something for my money.

J'Man I agree the government is not perfect, I believe a lot of the reason for that is that we are a society that has a very short attention span and we require instant gratification. Look at the current situation, 8 years of ignoring problems and when they don't get fixed in 10 month everyone is up in arms.
This situation may take a while to fix but we will never get there if we do not stay the course.

As for you previous post I believe you made the comparison of federal health care to state run DMV to totally different things.

 

[Mr Brown]

Glen Beck does nothing more than throw gasoline on an already blazing fire. he is an alarmist, and has many people fooled into thinking he cares so deeply for this country. Only thing he cares about is getting rich. He has no problem ignoring, stretching or denying the truth, as long as what he says appeals to his core audience. Case in point I was watching his show and listened to him blasting democrats as those who want to run up a huge federal defecit and had a chart to demonstrate this. On this very chart he used for an example it clearly showed the last time we had a federal surplus, and he totally ignored that. Why? because that was at the end of Clinton's presidency. Bush inherited this surplus and squandered it on an unwinable religious war, and for some strange reason the current economic crisis isn't his fault....Those of you who believe what he says verbatim are ignorant.
If he cared about the country so much, perhaps he should offer solutions to the problems, rather than simply pointing them out ad nauseum.
Bottom line is that while govenment screws up a lot of things, it wouldn't deny somebody life-saving care merely to turn a profit. Since when did playing God become an acceptable way to get rich?

 

[J'Man]

Glen Beck does nothing more than throw gasoline on an already blazing fire. he is an alarmist, and has many people fooled into thinking he cares so deeply for this country. Only thing he cares about is getting rich. He has no problem ignoring, stretching or denying the truth, as long as what he says appeals to his core audience. Case in point I was watching his show and listened to him blasting democrats as those who want to run up a huge federal defecit and had a chart to demonstrate this. On this very chart he used for an example it clearly showed the last time we had a federal surplus, and he totally ignored that. Why? because that was at the end of Clinton's presidency. Bush inherited this surplus and squandered it on an unwinable religious war, and for some strange reason the current economic crisis isn't his fault....Those of you who believe what he says verbatim are ignorant.
If he cared about the country so much, perhaps he should offer solutions to the problems, rather than simply pointing them out ad nauseum.
Bottom line is that while govenment screws up a lot of things, it wouldn't deny somebody life-saving care merely to turn a profit. Since when did playing God become an acceptable way to get rich?

Couldn't disagree with you more on just about everything you state (except the surplus part, that was correct). Wow, a "religious war"?? That's a new one. I would ask you to elaborate your point, but it's so out there I' think I'll have to pass.

Good night everyone.

 

[Mr Brown]

Yeah, you know, a religious war. One where the leader of one of the warring factions says God is on that side and against the other.....
It's cool to disagree, makes for better discussion.

 

[J'Man]

History shows wealth is always redistributed when it becomes concentrated in the hands of a few, hopefully it will be peaceful this time.

J'Man I agree the government is not perfect, I believe a lot of the reason for that is that we are a society that has a very short attention span and we require instant gratification. Look at the current situation, 8 years of ignoring problems and when they don't get fixed in 10 month everyone is up in arms.
This situation may take a while to fix but we will never get there if we do not stay the course.

As for you previous post I believe you made the comparison of federal health care to state run DMV to totally different things.

I agree with the instant gratification part, that applies to everything not just politics. I felt it was a reasonable analogy given the fact that just about any government agency does not look at you like a customer, therefore you cannot come to expect the type of service you may be used to from the private sector. You treat your customers poorly in the private sector and they go somewhere else. If you continue to treat them poorly you go out of business (or you did prior to the bailouts ). If it's run by the government they could care less. You say they will want to help "cure" you to lower costs. You're assuming the person you are seeing cares about lower costs. Just as the DMV could do many things to "lower costs" they don't, why is that? It's because you can't put them out of business. That was the point I was trying to make.

This was fun, but I really do need to go to bed. Got to get up early in the morning. Good night everyone!

 

[Dino]

I agree with the instant gratification part, that applies to everything not just politics. I felt it was a reasonable analogy given the fact that just about any government agency does not look at you like a customer, therefore you cannot come to expect the type of service you may be used to from the private sector. You treat your customers poorly in the private sector and they go somewhere else. If you continue to treat them poorly you go out of business (or you did prior to the bailouts ). If it's run by the government they could care less. You say they will want to help "cure" you to lower costs. You're assuming the person you are seeing cares about lower costs. Just as the DMV could do many things to "lower costs" they don't, why is that? It's because you can't put them out of business. That was the point I was trying to make.

This was fun, but I really do need to go to bed. Got to get up early in the morning. Good night everyone!

one oc the goals of health care reform is to lower the cost of health care.

 

[Justyntym]

History shows wealth is always redistributed when it becomes concentrated in the hands of a few, hopefully it will be peaceful this time.

WOW...are you serious. ???

I say it's wealth redistribution and you say...that's o.k. WT...
"Hopefully it will be peaceful THIS time".

No...it's not o.k. Not hardly not by a longshot is it o.k. for the govt' to
tax, lie, cheat, and steal from the working people of this country and give
it to the worthless just because...(history be damed).


Glenn Beck being an alarmist...phhbt...we should all be alarmed. This administration
is ramming it's liberal agenda on all fronts down our throats regardless of public
opinion at an unprecidented rate. We are headed for federal control of our
daily lives, between healthcare and cap and trade...

Wait till the Fed starts bailing out the states...

 

[Mr Bogus]

can someone point me to one thing the govt actually runs right? really.... give me a program the govt runs well...

Food stamps?
welfare?
medicare?
medicaid?

and with the last 2, if they were capable of running healthcare wouldnt they be able to operate these two correctly?

Also.... the little glitch in this "law"

Any employer with under $500k in payroll is exempt..
The employees are not..

If you do not carry this new "Mandatory" insurance.. you are fined 2.5% of your take home pay?

Sorry for the mis-information on the pap smear/mammogram thing.. but that is only part of the point... this is a slippery slope of "it can wait" medicine..

I am glad Shawn caught the "quality of life" portion of my post... fact is that the mortality is almost identical for treated/untreated prostate cancer patients.. but what is that life quality about..

The Govt will reduce the cost of healthcare... but I can almost tell you how they will do it.. and if you think they are going to do a good job? tell me this.. How many of the people voting on all this are going to be subject to it? And do you think they really give a rats ass about reducing expenses? yea... step right up and buy 3 balls for a buck... every throw is a winner...

And all the blow about "oh they dont want to cure illness, there is no money in it" that is classic speak from someone not in the health industry... All you need is a couple years in research facilities and clinical trials.. Fact is, you can not fix something that is constantly changing as you attack it..

conspiracy stuff... kills me... the conspiracy is your govt is misdirecting the attention from where it should be...

You want to reduce the price of medications? figure out how to get past the $1B minimum to bring any Rx med to market.. keeping in mind that you are going fail many more times (not sure number but think 1 in 15 make it) than you will succeed.

Then you have to deal with lawsuits down the road if that medication that made it ends up having other side effects..

So now you have 15 failed trials (x 1B each) and perhaps hundreds of millions or billions if something goes wrong.. How many $10 cholesterol pills do you have to sell to make $20B ? Get tort reform in line... get the govt out of it...

Govt going to fix anything....

 

[teamorion22]

we have the best govt in the world. period. we also have very unique problems here that other countries don't have. being the melting pot and all

i firmly believe in ultitarianism which is basically looking at the usefullness of ideas and doing the greatest good 4 the greatest number. And I know that we have the greatest healthcare in the world here. But our delimma is getting that care to the masses. Healthcare is very expensive because it is very good. compared to ten years ago the things healthcare can accomplish now is amazing. I can give examples of technology that would blow you away. but it costs. Joint commission (a private not4profit org) as well as the fed and state govt puts 'red tape' in our way making care more expensive. Another thing that increases costs is me, you, your sister, and your neighbor suing over every ridiculous thing thinking everybody is perfect and trying 2 get rich. last i checked money never brought anybody back 2 life. there are several little things we can change to reduce the cost of healthcare and I am all 4 them. BUT universal health care will not work and any version we get in this county will b a very modified system.

also studies prove that less women have died from breast cancer or breast cancer related cancers since the invention of mammo. since the invention of mammo it has been recommended that women get them yearly from 40 on. this is a correlation but saving lives is a good thing regardless

 

[teamorion22]

every state should have tort reform.

a philosophy teacher of mine pointed out that as a species we are reaching for immortality. we are doing the best we can to live as long as we can with the ulitimate goal being immortality. now this may be a stretch. but i found it interesting.

i believe here in this country we fear death much more than we did 100 years ago. and certainly alot more than the bc and early ad years. Why? this is a very interesting subject to me and I may be writing a paper about it soon. i am almost done reading homer's iliad and their thoughts on dying and courage is really something

 

[StromBusa]

I think health care suffers form the same problem as our fortune 500: "emerging liberal trends" like, gee Doc, you should have known that this woman had blah blah blah, we fine you 5 MIL, Gee Ford, look any Bozo can run your tires underinflated, we fine you blah blah blah. Some poster child victim .. or dumbazz.. screws up & we fine punitive damages to the extent that the insurance mushrooms, costs mushroom.... We need to get back to "looks like you picked the wrong Dr. ... not to be heartless, but the lottery approach to every oversight is killin us...

 

[Dino]

WOW...are you serious. ???

I say it's wealth redistribution and you say...that's o.k. WT...
"Hopefully it will be peaceful THIS time".

Yes, look at the Revolutions that have occurred in the past, almost every one occurred or was at least fueled by economic injustice (actual or perceived). We have a situation in the US where in 1997 over 144,000 tax returns were filed with adjusted gross incomes of $1 million or more [up to 240,00 in 2004]. There is a growing class of billionaires that collectively holds a substantial fraction of the wealth of the country. In March 2006 Forbes reported 793 billionaires in the US with combined net worth of $2.6 trillion. In March 2007 Forbes reported 946 billionaires in the US with combined net worth of $3.5 trillion. That is a 1-year increase of 19% in the number of billionaires and an increase of $35% in their net worth during a time of increasing poverty. Severe poverty is at its highest point in three decades. How long before this ecnomic injustice comed to a head? Like I said I hope it is peaceful, but history tells us that it will not be.
No...it's not o.k. Not hardly not by a longshot is it o.k. for the govt' to
tax, lie, cheat, and steal from the working people of this country and give
it to the worthless just because...(history be damed).

HUH? Of course what you have stateed is not right, but what about hte average guy that is just trying to feed his family and gets laid off? Is he one of the worthless you are talking about? There are a few people on this site who have fallen on hard times despite their being good hard working people, are they the "worthless" one you are talking about?

Glenn Beck being an alarmist...phhbt...we should all be alarmed. This administration
is ramming it's liberal agenda on all fronts down our throats regardless of public
opinion at an unprecidented rate. We are headed for federal control of our
daily lives, between healthcare and cap and trade...

Wait till the Fed starts bailing out the states...

If you state judging public opinion based upon what you are seeing on Glenn Beck then your fundamental starting point is flawed.

 

[Dino]

every state should have tort reform.

a philosophy teacher of mine pointed out that as a species we are reaching for immortality. we are doing the best we can to live as long as we can with the ulitimate goal being immortality. now this may be a stretch. but i found it interesting.

i believe here in this country we fear death much more than we did 100 years ago. and certainly alot more than the bc and early ad years. Why? this is a very interesting subject to me and I may be writing a paper about it soon. i am almost done reading homer's iliad and their thoughts on dying and courage is really something

tea - There was an interesting story on 60 minutes this past Sunday on this very topic.

The title of the story was: The Cost of Dying

<http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml>

 

[Dino]

can someone point me to one thing the govt actually runs right? really.... give me a program the govt runs well...

Food stamps?
welfare?
medicare?
medicaid?

and with the last 2, if they were capable of running healthcare wouldnt they be able to operate these two correctly?

Also.... the little glitch in this "law"

Any employer with under $500k in payroll is exempt..
The employees are not..

If you do not carry this new "Mandatory" insurance.. you are fined 2.5% of your take home pay?

Sorry for the mis-information on the pap smear/mammogram thing.. but that is only part of the point... this is a slippery slope of "it can wait" medicine..

I am glad Shawn caught the "quality of life" portion of my post... fact is that the mortality is almost identical for treated/untreated prostate cancer patients.. but what is that life quality about..

The Govt will reduce the cost of healthcare... but I can almost tell you how they will do it.. and if you think they are going to do a good job? tell me this.. How many of the people voting on all this are going to be subject to it? And do you think they really give a rats ass about reducing expenses? yea... step right up and buy 3 balls for a buck... every throw is a winner...

And all the blow about "oh they dont want to cure illness, there is no money in it" that is classic speak from someone not in the health industry... All you need is a couple years in research facilities and clinical trials.. Fact is, you can not fix something that is constantly changing as you attack it..

conspiracy stuff... kills me... the conspiracy is your govt is misdirecting the attention from where it should be...

You want to reduce the price of medications? figure out how to get past the $1B minimum to bring any Rx med to market.. keeping in mind that you are going fail many more times (not sure number but think 1 in 15 make it) than you will succeed.

How much did Jonas Salk make on his patent for polio vaccine? What did he say when asked about it?

Then you have to deal with lawsuits down the road if that medication that made it ends up having other side effects..

So now you have 15 failed trials (x 1B each) and perhaps hundreds of millions or billions if something goes wrong.. How many $10 cholesterol pills do you have to sell to make $20B ? Get tort reform in line... get the govt out of it...

Govt going to fix anything....

If your measuring stick for government effectiveness is the same as business effectiveness, then the government will always fall short? Why, Because the government functions to support the people. A businees functions to support itself and make greater profits, people are a resource and a liability to business. People are the foundation of government. There is a definate difference.

If you measure our government's success based on quality of life we have and the freedoms we all share, the way I see it we are the best there is. So while you may spend hours critizing, one of the greatest accomplishment we have achieved as Americans is the ability to do so with out fear of punishment.

 

[Mr Bogus]

one moment you are complaining about conspiracy's and how unjust things are for the "poor and needy" next thing you know, we are the greatest....

 

[Dino]

one moment you are complaining about conspiracy's and how unjust things are for the "poor and needy" next thing you know, we are the greatest....

This is where you and I differ. You choose to follow Chicken Little running around yelling about the Sky falling. I choose to not to believe everything I am told.

I believe that even with our flaws we are still the greatest country in the world. I have fought and shead blood because of my love for our country and what it represents. As a nation we have done incredable things for the world and I think we own it to the world to set the example of freedom and social justce.

If that is what you see as "Brainwash" or "Propaganda" so be it.