Carpenter Racing 1441 kit for Gen 3

[zucchero]

Feel free to start new threads rather than post unrelated questions into an existing thread. New threads are free and may get quicker attention.

Octane ratings vary by country so we must understand the ratings in India. In the US 86/87 is low octane and 92/93 is the typical premium gas/high octane. One hundred octane is not pump fuel.

I did some searching on the internet and it indicates that the Indian rating is the same as here in the US. Can you confirm or correct this?

Next, one may need to know more about that 100 octane gas. If it is aviation gas, if it has lead, it will ruin the catalytic converter of any vehicle that has one. For clarity, does this bike have a full Two Bros exhaust or just the mufflers?

I cannot comment on safety for the engine but using an octane much higher than required can create more difficult starts. High octane is designed not to ignite too easily! So when it is cold out, which is harder on starting, an ultra-high octane can exacerbate starting problems. I say "can" but admittedly do not have any experience putting race fuel into a stock

Even I checked on google, it says US and INDIA have the same ratings. The bike doesn't have full system only the mufflers have been changed.I don't know it is aviation fuel or not but it is been sold in fuel pumps and i am being told that these fuel is mainly for turbo charges engines.
The reason I asked this question was that my friend once filled his tank with 100 octane and after sometime he noticed that suddenly there were starting issues. The bike did not start at one go and there were 'rpm fluctuations' ( rpm went much low) for probably a minute or so after cold start and smell of unburnt fuel.yes you are absolutely right there were indeed starting issues. Now he has switched back to 95 which he used to use.
Sure next time will start a new thread. thanks for the reply. Truly appreciate.

 

[sixpack577]

Once again;
Suzuki Saved much needed money on the updated gen3 engine.
And
Had they gone to the 1441cc so many think they should have...they wouldn't have been able to pass Euro5 emissions, and give the bike the performance to run correctly with it.
So, change cams, tune, and add more exhaust catalysts to a basic gen2 engine, and the 1340cc squeezes through Euro5.
And remember, the ZX14 can't pass Euro5 either.
Face it, we are living at the end of an era.
Gas powered motorcycles will never be quicker from the factory than they are now, green emissions and big brother won't allow it.
Enjoy being able to mod what you have, and ride it on the street while you can.
The arm-chair quarterback debates about what should have been done are pointless.
Get the bike that You belive best suites Your riding style.
Mod it accordingly.
Ride it.
Done.

 

[Bumblebee]

Once again;
Suzuki Saved much needed money on the updated gen3 engine.
And
Had they gone to the 1441cc so many think they should have...they wouldn't have been able to pass Euro5 emissions, and give the bike the performance to run correctly with it.
So, change cams, tune, and add more exhaust catalysts to a basic gen2 engine, and the 1340cc squeezes through Euro5.
And remember, the ZX14 can't pass Euro5 either.
Face it, we are living at the end of an era.
Gas powered motorcycles will never be quicker from the factory than they are now, green emissions and big brother won't allow it.
Enjoy being able to mod what you have, and ride it on the street while you can.
The arm-chair quarterback debates about what should have been done are pointless.
Get the bike that You belive best suites Your riding style.
Mod it accordingly.
Ride it.
Done.

All I can say is.......yep, that sums it up nicely....

 

[hayabuser]

Once again;
Suzuki Saved much needed money on the updated gen3 engine.
And
Had they gone to the 1441cc so many think they should have...they wouldn't have been able to pass Euro5 emissions, and give the bike the performance to run correctly with it.
So, change cams, tune, and add more exhaust catalysts to a basic gen2 engine, and the 1340cc squeezes through Euro5.
And remember, the ZX14 can't pass Euro5 either.
Face it, we are living at the end of an era.
Gas powered motorcycles will never be quicker from the factory than they are now, green emissions and big brother won't allow it.
Enjoy being able to mod what you have, and ride it on the street while you can.
The arm-chair quarterback debates about what should have been done are pointless.
Get the bike that You belive best suites Your riding style.
Mod it accordingly.
Ride it.
Done.

I'm not sure that's a correct assumption. From what I've read on Euro5, larger engines tend to be easier to tune to meet that restriction so a bigger displacement Hayabusa might have been less of a headache for Suzuki.

In the end though, they decided to leave it alone and I suppose that we should be happy that a Gen3 appeared at all since I think the majority of us had given up on it. Personally, I would have preferred a re-do without all of the electronics, and a price tag much closer to that of the end of the Gen2 run... I'm pretty jurassic in my mindset and have a serious aversion to electric nannies... and I definitely don't want to pay through the nose for them.

 

[GSXRme]

Did you like to roll on the power and let the tq build on that engine?

I think the failure was caused by other WOT pulls that already made the rod weak. Me cruising that day not know my rod was about to commit suicide was just bad luck. The rod was already had damage and ready to give. Failure point was the top of the rod towards the piston. After it snapped and jammed the piston into the head, it then decided to spin and take out the case and then release into the transmission. Very bad day.

 

[GSXRme]

To be clear about the comment above , that was my 2005 Gen1 Turbo Busa. NOT my gen3 I currently have now lol.

 

[kim windsor]

Once again;
Suzuki Saved much needed money on the updated gen3 engine.
And
Had they gone to the 1441cc so many think they should have...they wouldn't have been able to pass Euro5 emissions, and give the bike the performance to run correctly with it.
So, change cams, tune, and add more exhaust catalysts to a basic gen2 engine, and the 1340cc squeezes through Euro5.
And remember, the ZX14 can't pass Euro5 either.
Face it, we are living at the end of an era.
Gas powered motorcycles will never be quicker from the factory than they are now, green emissions and big brother won't allow it.
Enjoy being able to mod what you have, and ride it on the street while you can.
The arm-chair quarterback debates about what should have been done are pointless.
Get the bike that You belive best suites Your riding style.
Mod it accordingly.
Ride it.
Done.

So true Enjoy while you can .

 

[PeregrineKeith]

Watching MooreMafia live on YouTube lastnight and he says the 1440 kits are pretty bulletproof… seen them with 20-30k on the clocks. That’s gotta entice sone people.
He also said no 2023 1000s. That’s what I had my heart set on. Now to try and buy a Z model 22 is probably impossible! He did say he would buy 2 - 23 models if he could. That’s scary. But @sixpack577 is probably right. We’ve seen the last of the great ICE and that statement could probably be applied to cars as well. Sad. We are getting old. Lol

 

[TheGza]

the gen2 made more power. (if u can believe that). i still cant. But hey, people buy them and there is an ass for every seat. And some people say that cucumbers DO taste better pickled.

Off the showroom floor yes, however every test I've seen so far once you change the exhaust and get rid of the Euro 5 crap the Gen 3 puts identical numbers of the Gen 2 to the ground.

 

[TonyM995]

They updated their website with pricing. The 1441cc kit would probably be a lot of fun.

Is anyone here planning on sending their engine to Carpenter?

Carpenter Racing

 

[SS4Luck]

They updated their website with pricing. The 1441cc kit would probably be a lot of fun.

Is anyone here planning on sending their engine to Carpenter?

Carpenter Racing

I saw they did and it is enticing. But so is just throwing their head cam package on and leaving eh bottom end alone. The more that these Gen 3s get in the hands of the max effort people the more I want to just pick up a Gen 2 with a turbo and leave my Gen 3 as my bike that I have faith in riding coast to coast. I know the 1441 geometry is extremely proven, but once you open up the cases everything is off the table with any engine lolol I can to the heads/cam install in my garage, I’ve been building my LS motors and the turbo motor in my drag quad for years. I dont trust myself with the bottom end so I’ve been leaning toward doing the H/C myself and if anything goes wrong or when the motor needs bearings/a refresh sending it out to the east coast for the 1441 build

 

[Ked0607]

I just dont like their requirement to use power commander. Why would that be better than an ECU flash?

 

[SS4Luck]

I just dont like their requirement to use power commander. Why would that be better than an ECU flash?

Probably is just a way for there to be a canned tune to get the bike running and not deal with outside variables. I’d imagine anyone that went full built motor wouldn’t have a tuner lined up to dial it in on the PCM once it’s back together

 

[TonyM995]

I saw they did and it is enticing. But so is just throwing their head cam package on and leaving eh bottom end alone. The more that these Gen 3s get in the hands of the max effort people the more I want to just pick up a Gen 2 with a turbo and leave my Gen 3 as my bike that I have faith in riding coast to coast. I know the 1441 geometry is extremely proven, but once you open up the cases everything is off the table with any engine lolol I can to the heads/cam install in my garage, I’ve been building my LS motors and the turbo motor in my drag quad for years. I dont trust myself with the bottom end so I’ve been leaning toward doing the H/C myself and if anything goes wrong or when the motor needs bearings/a refresh sending it out to the east coast for the 1441 build

I’m the same and will not touch the bottom end. I’ll do the head studs and base spacer for the first year and get used to everything- I still need to learn to tune.

I’ll send the motor to a machine shop the following year.

In my mind, machine work is the biggest thing Carpenter is doing here. Also a good builder should be able to tell how good the tune is by inspecting the bearings.

Pete Harrell, aka Real Good at Doin’ Stuff, was calling it “forensic tuning”. Colloquially speaking of course.

I just dont like their requirement to use power commander. Why would that be better than an ECU flash?

That’s a good question. Maybe he’s most comfortable with the power commander. It seems most shops have a preferred software and tend to stick to it.

I’m also thinking the prices for us to ship him just the motor will be different than the turn key options he’s advertising.

On the topic of engine building/tuning, Pete has a great video on his original channel. I’m not sure if this is the one he called it forensic tuning but it’s a really informative video if anyone is interested.

 

[dcnblues]

Much of this debate can simply be divided into two camps. Those who live in a place with twisty roads and those who don't. I feel like the ones who do have to support Suzuki in their design decisions for the Hayabusa. It is and always has been, after all, a GSXR. If there's a better way to combine 550 lbs and low lap times I'm not aware of it. And I'm grateful for that. And my Gen3 would beat my Gen1 at the track, I feel. More power is awesome, I would love to test ride a big bore or supercharged or turbocharged engine, but not at the cost of deteriorating in any way being in the groove on a beautiful twisty road.

 

[Bumblebee]

Much of this debate can simply be divided into two camps. Those who live in a place with twisty roads and those who don't. I feel like the ones who do have to support Suzuki in their design decisions for the Hayabusa. It is and always has been, after all, a GSXR. If there's a better way to combine 550 lbs and low lap times I'm not aware of it. And I'm grateful for that. And my Gen3 would beat my Gen1 at the track, I feel. More power is awesome, I would love to test ride a big bore or supercharged or turbocharged engine, but not at the cost of deteriorating in any way being in the groove on a beautiful twisty road.

I agree, surprisingly the Hayabusa stock or bolt on mods is pretty good for almost all occasions.....the electronic suite on the Gen 3 makes it even more so.

It is no GSXR though but it is respectable in it's own element....it was said the Gen 1 was closer to it's GSXR roots but we have to remember, when the Gen 1 came out the GSXR was heavy and was struggling against the competition.

 

[scotty - 12]

Much of this debate can simply be divided into two camps. Those who live in a place with twisty roads and those who don't. I feel like the ones who do have to support Suzuki in their design decisions for the Hayabusa. It is and always has been, after all, a GSXR. If there's a better way to combine 550 lbs and low lap times I'm not aware of it. And I'm grateful for that. And my Gen3 would beat my Gen1 at the track, I feel. More power is awesome, I would love to test ride a big bore or supercharged or turbocharged engine, but not at the cost of deteriorating in any way being in the groove on a beautiful twisty road.

Absolutely. The gen3 busa handles very well for a bike its size. Way better than the big ninja. The electronics are icing on the cake. No way I’d go 48-50 degrees hanging off a zx14 with the power applied and feel as planted as I do on busa.

 

[bigboy]

Glad I only paid $16,850 for mine but it still doesn’t change the market. Go to any other premium brand and you’re spending almost DOUBLE sometimes more than for what the Busa offers.

For the same price or less, I can build my Busa to my needs/wants and walk away from those other bikes if that’s your desire. I just prefer the comfort and complete package the Busa still offers 20+ years in at a decent price.

These are all US prices so $3-5k+ more in Canada for a stock bike and then you’ve got to mod it. Don’t get me started on the Ducati exhaust $5-8k for just the exhaust system…

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Exactly I agree 100%

 

[bigboy]

Should we feel ripped off that the 2022 ZX-14 is $4000 cheaper (Canadian) than the Gen3 Hayabusa and comes with a 1441cc engine already?

Yes. I love the new look but they didn't do enough to justify the new price. If you already had a busa then you know how to ride it without electronics. I really hate how electronics have shot the prices up because people are scared to ride without them.

But no extra power is insane. That's why I just bought an 09. Im going to build the busa Suzuki SHOULD have myself.

But I just don't care for the zx14 didn't feel as comfortable for me.

 

[Cruising180]

I agree, surprisingly the Hayabusa stock or bolt on mods is pretty good for almost all occasions.....the electronic suite on the Gen 3 makes it even more so.

It is no GSXR though but it is respectable in it's own element....it was said the Gen 1 was closer to it's GSXR roots but we have to remember, when the Gen 1 came out the GSXR was heavy and was struggling against the competition.

You could've said my Blackbird I used to have was no CBR as well but the me and the guy that led most of our small group rides, he was on a YZF1000R (not an R1) would be waiting on the guys on 954's 929's Gixxer750's and so on when the road straightened out. It's fun to take a bike like this Gen3 and have guys say "I had no idea that pig could corner like that" lol