teamorion22
Registered
i do not know why you are being so hateful
my post says 9.8 out of 10
my post says 9.8 out of 10
Cop shoots first ask questions later
- Thread starter mikeled86
- Start date
Although I have never had to fire on a person, thank God, I did have one occasion to draw down on a person. It was a terrifying experience and it happened so fast that I wasn't really "thinking". Once I associated the situation as being a threat to me and those around me I went into action like we are trained in the military. I just did what was programed there. Had the person pushed the situation any further I am certain I would be telling a different story here, or none at all
yea well I figured if you gotta stop to think about self preservation at that point, you may as well just hang it up... I feel for you guys... I would play devils advocate on this issue but I just can not see the point.. an officer that hesitates is likely going to have a short career...
teamorion22
Registered
most dangerous profession in this country
agriculture including cutting wood fishing
second
railroad
steel metal workers
roofers
construction
Police are not even close. So where is all the love for these brave men and women?
When you accept a job you accept everything that goes with it regardless
agriculture including cutting wood fishing
second
railroad
steel metal workers
roofers
construction
Police are not even close. So where is all the love for these brave men and women?
When you accept a job you accept everything that goes with it regardless
I agree, most situations LEO's encounter do not require use of force. I will also add that on those 0.2 out of 10 that you mentioned that do require use of force, he who hesitates usually is not the winner. When the threat is real you must act fast or you are the one that may not make it home to see your family again. I will also add that I only use that number because it was what was presented. I do not know the actual number and have not researched it so accept it only as a talking point.
The adrenaline released when your mind recognizes a life and death situation takes away the ability to reason. You don't have time to think, only time to react. At that point the persons actions will be such as they have trained. If they have not trained they will not act but instead freeze up. If they have trained to protect themselves and others they will act in such a way to defend themselves or others.
I have been in this situation several times, I have had persons at gunpoint. I can verify that things can go bad and happen really fast. Luckily I have not had them go so bad that I had to use that level of force.
The adrenaline released when your mind recognizes a life and death situation takes away the ability to reason. You don't have time to think, only time to react. At that point the persons actions will be such as they have trained. If they have not trained they will not act but instead freeze up. If they have trained to protect themselves and others they will act in such a way to defend themselves or others.
I have been in this situation several times, I have had persons at gunpoint. I can verify that things can go bad and happen really fast. Luckily I have not had them go so bad that I had to use that level of force.
Team, obviously you've never worn a gun or a badge or you would realize that all those occupations you listed do NOT have to face the possibility of a knife wound, a gunshot, a pool cue in the face or some other act of violence at the hands of another. Deaths or injuries in those professions are ACCIDENTS and not intentionally inflicted. How about this often asked what if situation during a police oral board exam?
You respond to an armed robbery (shots fired) in progress call at a liquor store. As you pullup in front a man runs out carrying a gun and takes off down the street. What do you do? Shoot him? Run after him? Check inside the store? Call for backup? I'll get back to you with an answer unless someone else can come up with one.
You respond to an armed robbery (shots fired) in progress call at a liquor store. As you pullup in front a man runs out carrying a gun and takes off down the street. What do you do? Shoot him? Run after him? Check inside the store? Call for backup? I'll get back to you with an answer unless someone else can come up with one.
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here is another case of reading things HOW you want them to read.. you are citing numbers PER 100K in the occupation..
this moves "Truck Drivers" to the top of the pile at 25 per 100K workers.. you have a clue HOW many truck drivers there are in the country? How many die a year? that they go to jail more often for their mistakes than any other occupation?
Now fishing or logging..never know when a fish or tree is going to come at you in the dark with a gun or knife.. better be on your toes in those situations..
You know I was looking around our new office addition and I saw 2x4 attack a construction worker, thank god he had his nail gun..
I then got a call from SamBusa... you know he was attacked in his cab today by a rogue railroad crossing signal... lucky he had his cell phone to "shoot" a picture..
have you figured any of this out yet? did not think so.... I will spell it out better when I get a few extra minutes..
teamorion22
Registered
The adrenaline released when your mind recognizes a life and death situation takes away the ability to reason
you can teach your body to deal with adrenaline and make split second decisions.
if you read please read the book Blink. its great and specifically about this.
tru those deaths are accident but what difference does it make. your dead. the odds of dying in those professions are higher than if you were to be a leo. i am sure it is tru for getting injured as well.
look my hats off to leos. nothing against them. everybody makes mistakes, nobody is perfect
you can teach your body to deal with adrenaline and make split second decisions.
if you read please read the book Blink. its great and specifically about this.
tru those deaths are accident but what difference does it make. your dead. the odds of dying in those professions are higher than if you were to be a leo. i am sure it is tru for getting injured as well.
look my hats off to leos. nothing against them. everybody makes mistakes, nobody is perfect
In re: "The adrenaline released when your mind recognizes a life and death situation takes away the ability to reason"
Bullshiite! Period! Only real life experience will show you the way and obviously, you haven't experienced that yet. I might agree that for the uninformed and untrained, adrenaline may cause a wrong action or reaction by someone but typically, NOT for a LEO.
Bullshiite! Period! Only real life experience will show you the way and obviously, you haven't experienced that yet. I might agree that for the uninformed and untrained, adrenaline may cause a wrong action or reaction by someone but typically, NOT for a LEO.
Like any good Fantasy land citizen...
First we call a time out...(like any good parent should)
call his parents right away, they might have a "word" to stop him before he shoots someone
Ask him his intentions..we all know that they only use guns as devices of intimidation..
Then we call his doctor.. he may be on meds you know or be "unstable".. certainly would not want to shoot this kind of guy
I gotta find my SOP book for the rest....
I think that is totally incorrect... I am a racer/pilot/skydiver/scuba diver and number of "A" type hobbies... when faced with life and death situations, your mind does an amazing trick, it SLOWS everything down..
with amazing detail you are able to go back and see what happened or why your reacted the way you did.. My bet is when an officer "pulls" the trigger, it was an intentional action.. he evaluated a set of conditions, and made a logical decision based on what he saw.. he may not have seen you get out of bed, run to the dresser, grab a gun and run outside... he just saw you run around a corner with a gun in the lead.... he saw you, the weapon and the odds of his surviving an attack by this unknown and pulled the trigger.. later he will be able to tell you more detail than you could even guess at..
they are trained to deal with sensory overload and make choices... sometimes that choice may be the wrong one, but it was certainly no accident he shot you...
06limited1st
Registered
I think this happens much too often, even if he had a gun, did he raise it at all? Was there an exchange of words? Did he even tell the guy to put it down or even warn him? or did he just shoot him?
Too dam young, at probably the happiest time of his life (just married, having a kid), and now it's over because he was protecting his house from the 4 suspected robbers this cop was looking for.. Seems to me this cop didn't receive adequate training....
Too dam young, at probably the happiest time of his life (just married, having a kid), and now it's over because he was protecting his house from the 4 suspected robbers this cop was looking for.. Seems to me this cop didn't receive adequate training....
I am about done with this topic until the investigation is release. Those who want to burn the officer at the stake won't listen to anything other than their reasoning. Most seem to have never been in a similar situation and just throwing around numbers or assumptions. Sad. I do not envy the job that those men and women suit up to do everyday. I did something similar in the military, and it was no where near the intensity they deal with, it made me think about how hard it is to be able to make those decisions and then live with them.
Yes your mind slows things down. Yes you can "think". But as it was said most of it is training. Every action you do in those situations is what is ingrained in you. If you have no training, no experience then odds are you aren't going to walk away. If I was in his shoes, arriving at a BandE sort of situation at night and knowing you are out numbered, I can't say a person coming out a door or out of a shadow at me would not be putting themselves in danger. At the end of the night I have the responsibility to come home to my family too.
to all the LEO's who do their job day in and day out with all the haters ready to hang you. I started into that career field but decided I could not deal with those people. This only reinforces my decision.
Peace
Yes your mind slows things down. Yes you can "think". But as it was said most of it is training. Every action you do in those situations is what is ingrained in you. If you have no training, no experience then odds are you aren't going to walk away. If I was in his shoes, arriving at a BandE sort of situation at night and knowing you are out numbered, I can't say a person coming out a door or out of a shadow at me would not be putting themselves in danger. At the end of the night I have the responsibility to come home to my family too.
to all the LEO's who do their job day in and day out with all the haters ready to hang you. I started into that career field but decided I could not deal with those people. This only reinforces my decision. Peace
I suppose I worded that wrong to convey the point I was trying to make. Maybe reason was the wrong choice, maybe not.
The point I was trying to convey is this, I'll give the long version. During a high stress situation where the body experiences a true fight or flight, life or death situation, studies have shown that many persons go into an "auto pilot" state. One study quoted in the book On Combat which was authored by Lt Col. Dave Grossman showed that 74% of 141 surveyed police officers who had encountered these types of situations experienced this. 85% experienced dimished sound otherwise known as auditory exclusion and 80% experienced tunnel vision. When the body goes into that state the brain will enhance whatever system is needed most to survive. If you are in lowlight you may experience better clarity of your vision, If in a noisy area you may experience clarity of what it is you need to hear and so on. The "ability to reason" which I spoke of was that situation where the body goes on auto pilot so to speak and relies only on what the brain has been programmed to do in the way it has been programmed to do it.
In the old days when revolvers were used police officers would take the brass out of their weapons and put it in their pockets to prevent from having to pick it up later. There is one instance where officers trained that way got into a shootout and lost. During the course of investigating the situation, investigators found empty brass in their pockets from where they had reloaded. They did this because they had been programmed that way. Hense the lack of ability to reason that it would be quicker to just drop the brass on the ground. Sorry if this has caused any confusion
Studies have also shown that depending upon the level of stress put on an individual they may or may not remember what happened. Some may only remember key parts. 65% of the subjects studied did show a perception of slow motion while 51% had loss of memory for parts of the event and 47% had memory loss for some of their actions and 22% suffered memory distortions. Many times when memory is lost, a person will regain some of that memory but may take up to 72 hours to do so.
Rayabusa0818
Never Forgotten
when you call the police .... stay in the house .... when they arrive they are on high alert.
I know there are not enough details.. it is very easy to be mistaken for the bad guy. Most people in these situations don't think of these things and assume the police know who you are and who the bad guys are before they arrive.
Very bad and sad situation.
I know there are not enough details.. it is very easy to be mistaken for the bad guy. Most people in these situations don't think of these things and assume the police know who you are and who the bad guys are before they arrive.
Very bad and sad situation.
Calif. cop fatally shoots innocent man in his yard - Nation | DailyAdvance.com
Google the articles. He did not call the police. He did not know the police were there. He heard a noise outside and went out to see what it was with a broomstick. The cop was chasing 4 suspects on foot and they spilt up. Cop ran up on the kid and shot him.
Who knows what transpired between the two. Why everyone jumps to all this conclusions and creates all these scenerios to justify it one way or the other is bizarre. You guys have taken a couple of details and written your own fictional drama's.
Bottom line is a cop shot and killed an innocent kid with a broomstick. It is not illegal to be outside in your own yard with a broomstick. The kid may or may not have know it was a cop before he was shot.
Google the articles. He did not call the police. He did not know the police were there. He heard a noise outside and went out to see what it was with a broomstick. The cop was chasing 4 suspects on foot and they spilt up. Cop ran up on the kid and shot him.
Who knows what transpired between the two. Why everyone jumps to all this conclusions and creates all these scenerios to justify it one way or the other is bizarre. You guys have taken a couple of details and written your own fictional drama's.
Bottom line is a cop shot and killed an innocent kid with a broomstick. It is not illegal to be outside in your own yard with a broomstick. The kid may or may not have know it was a cop before he was shot.
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Warchild
Banned
It seems an important lesson to take away from this story is: don't bring a broomstick to a gunfight.
teamorion22
Registered
research sympathetic nervous system
adrenaline
cognitive psychology
again Blink is a great book, at amazon.com you can read the first chapter
adrenaline
cognitive psychology
again Blink is a great book, at amazon.com you can read the first chapter
It seems an important lesson to take away from this story is: don't bring a broomstick to a gunfight.
Yeah, That might have eased the cop's conscience somewhat.
Suppose it depends on perspective eh? The opposing important lesson would be: Bring two guns to a gunfight, incase the dead guy just had a broomstick.
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