DWI Laws are Draconian

I have 2 friends that died because of drinking on bikes. I have a nephew that almost died because of being drunk on his chooper. I seen 2 people in a convertible decapitated because of drunk driving.

NO EXCUSE FOR ANYONE TO DRIVE AND DRINK. DRINK AND CALL A CAB OR CALL A FRIEND TO DRIVE YOU HOME INSTEAD OF CALLING A FRIEND TO PICK YOU UP OR FILL A BODY BAG.
 
Im sorry, I am a cop in NC.  I feel your friend didnt get enough.  I have seen too many alcohol related deaths.  I have also had to tell too many famlies that a relative is dead.  INCLUDING A 10 YEAR OLD on her birthday that daddy and little brother were dead because a drunk hit them.
I have also been hit twice by drunks.  
I think you feel the way you do because you probably get blasted and drive and feel its unfair that you havent been caught.
Damn I hate sounding like a cop.
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As far as not being a “friendâ€, well, I don’t see it, but maybe I’m an ass.  I am not a “bar†and do not sell alcohol.  I do not have a business license (for refreshments anyway).  I am not “open†to the public.  I will not assault someone (punch in face) to get their keys from them nor will I  kidnap them either (hold against their will).

I am responsible for  MYSELF only.  I care deeply for people and have devoted my life to helping others.  But I will not live someone else’s life for them.  I offer recommendations only, if a person chooses not to follow them that is their problem, friend or not.  
I think you got more heat directed at you than necessary...I know plenty of people that drink, say they're fine, won't give up the keys and head on out the door...can't be everyone's keeper, and I don't try beyond the usual "are you sure you're okay to drive?" Apart from tying someone up, there's really little else you can do unless you can find it in your heart to call the police and report 'em yourself.

My comments were surely directed at your friend, and I still think he's on a crash course with tragedy if he doesn't straighten up. I don't think HIS actions are any reflection on you though...just don't get in the seat next to him if he's been drinking...

Brings up good points about just how responsible any of us are for others' actions...
 
As far as not being a “friendâ€, well, I don’t see it, but maybe I’m an ass. I am not a “bar†and do not sell alcohol. I do not have a business license (for refreshments anyway). I am not “open†to the public. I will not assault someone (punch in face) to get their keys from them nor will I kidnap them either (hold against their will).

I am responsible for MYSELF only. I care deeply for people and have devoted my life to helping others. But I will not live someone else’s life for them. I offer recommendations only, if a person chooses not to follow them that is their problem, friend or not.

I encourage “squids†all the time not to do “squid-ish†things on public roads in traffic. I, however, won’t take their keys from them, saying “Now I told you about wheeling in traffic. You could have hurt someone.†Someone could get shot that way.

Same basic principle as the drinking thing. IMHO.
Nope, you're not a bar. You're a friend. I agree, we as individuals are responsible for ourselves. However, if that were the end of it, your friends would never be there for you.. they would just "recommend" other options to you.

My point was and still is:

You could tell your buddy was drinking a lot, you knew what timeframe you were looking at him needing to leave, you knew he wouldn't be allowed to camp on the couch. Yet, you didn't tell him the fridge/booze was off limits and put your foot down. By the way in most states, you can be sued for allowing someone to consume to much. Much the same way that you are not a bar, therefore not required to card the people at your home before serving them. However, if you serve a minor who looks 25 and that minor is pulled over after leaving, you're still in hot water.

The bottom line is either you needed to tell the S.O. that he's staying because he's drunk and that's that, or know when being a friend means having responsibilty when your buddy doesn't (not just for your buddy but for the unknown people he may encounter on the way home from your house after drinking your booze), or realize that the S.O. has a reason said friend is not welcome to spend the night and perhaps he shouldn't be over at your house drinking until all hours of the night in the first place.

Since the squid story only loosely applies here. How about this scenario. You see an old lady being mugged by some guy in parking lot... you're either going to step in and stop the guy or you're going to call the police. Why? Because we as people have an obligation to society in general. We have an obligation to report crime. You didn't call the police and report the crime your friend was committing by DUI nor did you attempt to step in and prevent the crime.

Though I'm sure it wouldn't have taken a punch to the jaw to convince him to stay the night, I'm sure your friend would have prefered even that over his current situation. Instead you hit the boards, after the fact, with "the system is draconian". All that actually happened is the system was successful in taking a DUI off the streets where you failed in preventing it though you had ample opportunity to do so. End of story.


Heath



Just as a side note... my buddy, who I punched, was so drunk he could barely speak, he was beligerant and demanding he was going to drive, we were in the military and only 100-200 feet inside the Mexican border (US side) in a parking lot. Not a good situation for anyone there. However, even as a 20 year old, I knew that losing a friendship was better than losing a friend due to a car accident or jail time and that a jaw heals quicker than a record or anything a car accident has to offer.
 
I"ll bet alot of you have driven w/.011 bac.

To get three in such a short time takes some doing though.



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 However, even as a 20 year old, I knew that losing a friendship was better than losing a friend due to a car accident or jail time and that a jaw heals quicker than a record or anything a car accident has to offer.
How true.... I agree 100%... I prefer newer to speak to my friend after I might just saved his life/future.
 
+45 He knew he was breaking the law and you knew it too...he got what he deserved...your lucky your not sitting next to him in a cell.
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ZERO tolerance for drinkning and driving; one less DD on the our highway.
Well said, by me after 3 is a felony. Get this I went to a softball game on my bike had 1 beer and could tell a differance, the diamond 6 blocks from my house. I never drank and rode again. I don't drink and drive to this day, I never would have thought about it before, I never imagined that differance between 4 and 2 wheels. Hate to say it but there should be no tolerance for drunk drivers.
 
ITs funny. Sorta. I see all sides in this one.
Yup, shoulda,coulda,woulda....

Its all about choices. The good, The bad, and in this case...The Ugly.

The guy...he's a drunkin fug-wad.Who knows whats goin' thru his head. Unfortunately,all those thoughts are human.Whatever has fugged him up,its human. Bad decisions,bad genetics,bad enviroment.Whatever.

His buddy(Chris) ... who hasn't been there/done that. You know, with drunken friends. The couch,the wife,etc.

I guess we're lucky this time.....nobody got killed.

I'm willing to forgive and forget on this one....



"Let he who is without sin...cast the first stone."

RSD.
 
 
I think you feel the way you do because you probably get blasted and drive and feel its unfair that you havent been caught.
wow.  Boom.  Hope you had yer head down for that one .

   get out Chris...while the going is still good.  
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I hate when posts go a rye, but could care less about flames (thick skinned I guess).

However, when a new member (in the same geographic area and potential future riding buddy) makes a statement like that it is kind of offensive. Especially when there is little knowledge to back up his assumptions. I always try never to ASSUME. I could understand ignorance if someone didn’t fully read the posts, but why would a person comment without first reading.

I will Reiter orate, I DO NOT DRIVE WHILE INTOXICATED. Much less “blastedâ€, I don’t even like to drink that much.

One of the reasons I am so “knowledgeable†is it is my professional field. I would never accuse a police officer of being a “crook†just because he knows thieves. I would never assume that Kweave drinks too much, has bad relationships or contemplates a “destructive self-endâ€, just because LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS have a high rate of alcoholism, divorce and suicide.

I also hate defending my statements but hey I got time.

1. My point was never, “Those mean men locked my friend up for no reason. Life is so unfair.†My friend is a DRUNK! I doubt that will change because of an expensive “3 hocks and a cot†hiatus courtesy of the state. I have been down the AA route with him (he intellectualizes the steps). I have been down the counseling route with him (he tends to say “all the right thingsâ€). I have encouraged abstinence (No I didn’t hold my breath). Now I guess he is going to try PRISON. Is that going to rehabilitate?

As far as “friend shipâ€, well, I accept people they way they are. Do I try to encourage positive change? Yes. Will I attempt for force someone to change? No.

2. Draconian is one of my all time favorite words. (Thought RSD would approve).

3. Thank you Michelle.

4. Lastly, I posted here because I am comfortable sharing my thoughts and feelings with you fine people. Mainly because of the diversity (not controversy) here.

Thank you all and I still love you people,

Chris


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As far as not being a “friendâ€, well, I don’t see it, but maybe I’m an ass. I am not a “bar†and do not sell alcohol. I do not have a business license (for refreshments anyway). I am not “open†to the public. I will not assault someone (punch in face) to get their keys from them nor will I kidnap them either (hold against their will).

I am responsible for MYSELF only. I care deeply for people and have devoted my life to helping others. But I will not live someone else’s life for them. I offer recommendations only, if a person chooses not to follow them that is their problem, friend or not.

I encourage “squids†all the time not to do “squid-ish†things on public roads in traffic. I, however, won’t take their keys from them, saying “Now I told you about wheeling in traffic. You could have hurt someone.†Someone could get shot that way.

Same basic principle as the drinking thing. IMHO.
Nope, you're not a bar. You're a friend. I agree, we as individuals are responsible for ourselves. However, if that were the end of it, your friends would never be there for you.. they would just "recommend" other options to you.

My point was and still is:

You could tell your buddy was drinking a lot, you knew what timeframe you were looking at him needing to leave, you knew he wouldn't be allowed to camp on the couch. Yet, you didn't tell him the fridge/booze was off limits and put your foot down. By the way in most states, you can be sued for allowing someone to consume to much. Much the same way that you are not a bar, therefore not required to card the people at your home before serving them. However, if you serve a minor who looks 25 and that minor is pulled over after leaving, you're still in hot water.

The bottom line is either you needed to tell the S.O. that he's staying because he's drunk and that's that, or know when being a friend means having responsibilty when your buddy doesn't (not just for your buddy but for the unknown people he may encounter on the way home from your house after drinking your booze), or realize that the S.O. has a reason said friend is not welcome to spend the night and perhaps he shouldn't be over at your house drinking until all hours of the night in the first place.

Since the squid story only loosely applies here. How about this scenario. You see an old lady being mugged by some guy in parking lot... you're either going to step in and stop the guy or you're going to call the police. Why? Because we as people have an obligation to society in general. We have an obligation to report crime. You didn't call the police and report the crime your friend was committing by DUI nor did you attempt to step in and prevent the crime.

Though I'm sure it wouldn't have taken a punch to the jaw to convince him to stay the night, I'm sure your friend would have prefered even that over his current situation. Instead you hit the boards, after the fact, with "the system is draconian". All that actually happened is the system was successful in taking a DUI off the streets where you failed in preventing it though you had ample opportunity to do so. End of story.


Heath



Just as a side note... my buddy, who I punched, was so drunk he could barely speak, he was beligerant and demanding he was going to drive, we were in the military and only 100-200 feet inside the Mexican border (US side) in a parking lot. Not a good situation for anyone there. However, even as a 20 year old, I knew that losing a friendship was better than losing a friend due to a car accident or jail time and that a jaw heals quicker than a record or anything a car accident has to offer.
Well said
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I couldn't agree more.
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I've risked physical confrontations numerous times to keep a friend from driving drunk, not only for their safety but for the safety of my family and friends and the public in general that use the same roads. I can live with physically controlling a buddy to save his, or someone else's life but I'd find it hard to live with simply suggesting that he not drive and seeing him kill himself or someone else after my "suggestion" was ignored. My friends will have to go through me to get into a vehicle and drive away while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, period.

Edit: Also meant to say that I've had a friend tell me in my younger years that I would have to whip his ass to leave in a vehicle. I opted not to fight him over it and stayed the night at his house. As soon as I was sober I had a huge amount of respect for this friend. As everyone knows, alcohol inhibits clear judgement and lowers inhibitions. "Suggesting" that a drunk not drive is about as pointless as asking a busa (or 10R) rider not to friggin' speed. In either case the ability to think clearly is reduced and it's just a matter of time before a bad judgement call is made.
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And not to beat a dead horse (I'm done after this one) but in Georgia (and I'm sure most states have similar laws) there is a law against allowing another to violate state law. We have charged vehicle owners for allowing another to drive under the influence. This law has also been used when someone allows another to leave under the influence without reporting it.

And FYI, if I'm charged with DUI and you are charged with allowing me to leave DUI you will have a DUI on your record and you will pay the same fines I pay in Georgia. I arrested a female for DUI one time and charged her with Fail to Maintian Lane, Driving While License Suspended, Open Container of Alcohol in Vehicle, and DUI 3rd offense. As I made my initial approach to contact the driver after getting them stopped I saw the passenger throw out their last two (open) beers. The passenger was charged with Allowing Another to Violate State Law and Littering. The driver ended up with just over $3k in fines. With the added Littering charge the passenger ended up with right at $4k in fines and also received her 3rd offense of DUI within 5 years and achieved Habitual Violator status.

So, if NC laws are similar you might want to review your "suggest only" policy before you end up with a DUI (or worse, Voluntary Manslaughter or similar) courtesy of your bud. In Georgia you could be found responsible on a criminal as well as civil level.
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Just a heads up, bro. Not tryin' to preach. And with that I'm done so I don't feel like I'm just preachin'. I'm telling you all of this as a friend and out of true concern, not as a guy without sin.
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<!--EDIT|BulletTrain
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And not to beat a dead horse (I'm done after this one) but in Georgia (and I'm sure most states have similar laws) there is a law against allowing another to violate state law. We have charged vehicle owners for allowing another to drive under the influence. This law has also been used when someone allows another to leave under the influence without reporting it.

And FYI, if I'm charged with DUI and you are charged with allowing me to leave DUI you will have a DUI on your record and you will pay the same fines I pay in Georgia. I arrested a female for DUI one time and charged her with Fail to Maintian Lane, Driving While License Suspended, Open Container of Alcohol in Vehicle, and DUI 3rd offense. As I made my initial approach to contact the driver after getting them stopped I saw the passenger throw out their last two (open) beers. The passenger was charged with Allowing Another to Violate State Law and Littering. The driver ended up with just over $3k in fines. With the added Littering charge the passenger ended up with right at $4k in fines and also received her 3rd offense of DUI within 5 years and achieved Habitual Violator status.

So, if NC laws are similar you might want to review your "suggest only" policy before you end up with a DUI (or worse, Voluntary Manslaughter or similar) courtesy of your bud. In Georgia you could be found responsible on a criminal as well as civil level.
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Just a heads up, bro. Not tryin' to preach. And with that I'm done so I don't feel like I'm just preachin'.
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WOW, BT. I had no idea. I was under the impression that only those who "served" alcohol were liable. I never thought about the "letting others violate the law" side of things. Good food for thought. I just wonder how broadly that could be applied and under what circumstances.

I could (but won't) mention many examples where I have witnessed someone "breaking the law" and didn't report it to the proper authorities. Is that Bad? I have never lived in a glass house, so I'm not sure exactly how to respond.

BT-Keep in mind I wouldn't feel the need to defend myself if I didn't respect you and your comentary over the years. I know drunk driving is drunk driving, but I want to make something crystal clear.

My friend did not "GET INTO" anything leaving my house. He climbed "onto" a moped. He weigh's, I imagine, about 140#. So on a moped traveling at 25mph, we aren't talking about a lot of kinetic energy. And at 2:00AM he is not likely to run over any "slow children playing" on BFE country roads.

If he was driving an 18-wheeler it would have been more of a moral dilema. He wasn't. He was driving a freaking moped that wasn't going to "kill a family of four", himself maybe, but that would be the extent of it. His death would sadden me but it would be "Darwin's Way" which I would eventually be OK with.

Chris
Chris
 
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