Got bike impounded for speeding...

[surt]

CW, agreed that limits are not neccessarily defined on the basis of safety for any particular vehicle or driver or combo thereof. In fact, they are usually set for the least effective of those, the lowest common denominator. In addition, limits often take into account various environmental conditions (hidden drive ways, intersections, pedestrian and animal factors, etc.), looking to compromise on speed of travel vs leaving vehicles enough time to react to an unanticipated yet common need to slow or stop. So there is more than just the skill of the driver at work in determining limits on public roads.

For that sake of argument, let's assume that drive skill is the only significant factor in determining limits. What you've suggested is :

"we all ought to reserve the right to exceed those limits when we can safely do so."

If that's the case, how do we determine when it is safe? And how many in the population are capable of being honest about their ability and therefore when it is safe to do so?

More to the point, when is it "safe" to do 2x and 3x the speed limit? We're not talking about doin' 70 in a 55. Multiple posters in this thread are claiming to go 100+ mph REGULARLY on public streets IN TRAFFIC. Many have claimed to regularly hit speeds higher than those occurring at many races and track events!!!

I submit that it is NEVER "safe" to go triple digits on a public road. I will acknowledge that there can be times when one is COMPLETELY isolated from other people on a public freeway when the only one at risk is the driver. However, for most of us, those situations are not daily occurences but are extremely rare. And even then, risking oneself is still selfish and incosiderate to those that rely on and care for us.

So, again, risk yourself, fine. But it's very difficult to do (and be sure that no one else is at risk) on a public road.

Go fast...but do it on a track. There, you and everyone around you is fully informed of the risk at hand but the environment is much safer and there are no innocents to drag down in the event that disaster strikes.

Again, just consider getting the news that a loved one has been struck down by a rider who chose to do 150mph on your local roads. I submit that there is no defending such behavior.

Mate you certainly raise a strong argument but don't forget you're covering the extremities and turning a bit of a blind eye to lesser acts.

I believe that few riders would advocate furious speeding in most situations. But although you point out speed limits are subject to potential hazards on the road, there is no escaping the fact that rider/driver skill can have such a strong impact on these risks that within reason, those limits barely apply to some of us.

The problem is that all road users pay for the roads, and all road users have equal right to use it. Those users that do not have decent skills required for safe operation have to be catered for, and it's THIS that makes the limits so unbearably low.

But ask yourself, how much lower to the limits have to sink from accidents before society realises, wait a second, instead of making everything slower, why don't we just better educate road users?

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Mate you certainly raise a strong argument but don't forget you're covering the extremities and turning a bit of a blind eye to lesser acts.

I believe that few riders would advocate furious speeding in most situations. But although you point out speed limits are subject to potential hazards on the road, there is no escaping the fact that rider/driver skill can have such a strong impact on these risks that within reason, those limits barely apply to some of us.

The problem is that all road users pay for the roads, and all road users have equal right to use it. Those users that do not have decent skills required for safe operation have to be catered for, and it's THIS that makes the limits so unbearably low.

But ask yourself, how much lower to the limits have to sink from accidents before society realises, wait a second, instead of making everything slower, why don't we just better educate road users?

Extremeties are the topic at hand. 140 in a 55 is, IMHO, extreme. As I mentioned earlier, we're not talking 70 in a 55 here. Were that the case, this would be a non-issue as the general public has "voted" to do those speeds routinely as evidenced by the fact that traffic usually flows, at least everywhere I've ever driven, at about 15 to 20 mph above posted limits.

A blind eye to lesser acts? How so? I've acknowledged that a) non-triple digit speeding is not the same level of issue as triple digit speeding, b) that "by myself" speeding can be viewed as a non-issue to the public and c) that there is a an element of skill that exists in all situations (although there is no way currently to objectively identify who has what level of skill).

Yes, the roads are for ALL, as in public. From the least skilled to the most skilled and, as part of the public, we are all bound by the same laws. Unless you're a cop that abuses the privelege of serving the public (another discussion, to be sure ). However, it illustrates the point that we feel short-changed when a cop behaves as if they laws don't apply to them (in non-emergency situations, that is).

Better eduacation of users would be great...but when so much of the population is probably less capable/less skillful, how will such laws get passed? If the skill level standard is raised to accommodate greater speed limits, what will become of the population that currently drives that would suddenly be unable to do so? And what level do you set the standard? Since the roads are for all to use and are a means of TRANSPORTATION, not a race or speed arena, why should the less skillful be excluded from use of the roadways? (Not talking about blind folks or folks that hit a pole everytime they take a car out).

You can educate the heck outta Joe Public and everyone else, but the fact of the matter is that there is still no defence for doing triple digits in 55. Besides, if the limit was raised to 100 mph, would those who ride 150 mph now slow down to 100 or would they instead feel freed up to go to 170? We're talking about racing speeds, speeds that are often not seen on the track in professional events. How can one believe that such speeds can be justified in any typical public road situation?

 

[surt]

Whoah whoah whoah, I took great care to make it clear that neither I, nor (in all likelihood) most other riders would not advocate the degree of speeding the OP did. That isn't to say I haven't done it myself - I'm not perfect - but I don't advocate it!

And I don't have the answer to my own suggestion - better education. The only education I can say hand-on-heart that has kept me from ever crashing a sportsbike is information found on forums, and what I've learnt riding with small groups. But I've gone 5 years without so much as a 0Kph spill, and if I can learn others definitely can.

There's one thing I specifically want to address:

why should the less skillful be excluded from use of the roadways?

How can you say that? Surely you agree a lack of sufficient skill and control is the cause for 99% of accidents? You're so concerned about the families of pedestrians injured by (of all unlikely things) a speeding biker - consider how many accidents are the result of a deficiency in skill and control where speed is not exceeded?!

I say again, instead of reducing speed limits it would be more beneficial to everyone if something were done about the skill and control of all road users, drivers and riders alike. But of course it would require huge budgets and masses of effort, both of which are easily avoided by just dropping the limit and instead raking in money from excessive speeding fines.

 

[CWCobra]

If there's no one on the road but you, and weather is perfect, why shouldn't you be able to go as fast as you want? Sorta like the "Autobahn approach" to speed limits.

And, at the risk of repeating myself, it just seems silly to see speed limits of 55 today on the very same roads that bore speed limits of 65 several years ago - before all the "safety" features of autos. Seems like it would be more logical to RAISE the speed limit, not LOWER it - assuming all other things were equal. Even on rural interstates, the speed limit today is 70, whereas it was 75 back in the late 60's. Makes no sense to me. It's ARBITRARY - set by some bureaucrat with absolute job security, untouchable by the populace, and unresponsive to the average citizen.

Guess I should point out that I'm talking RURAL roads here, not urban, not city, not high-traffice grid-lock roadways. I'm talking about the highways and bi-ways where you meet fewer than 1 car per mile. No commercial development, sparse population. Wildlife perhaps pose the biggest to riders of all.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Whoah whoah whoah, I took great care to make it clear that neither I, nor (in all likelihood) most other riders would not advocate the degree of speeding the OP did. That isn't to say I haven't done it myself - I'm not perfect - but I don't advocate it!

Glad to hear that you don't advocate such speeds. At the same time, you don't get there by accident. We've all been speeding but exceeding the limits by 25 mph or greater whent here is any chance of others being involved in a potential accident greatly increases that potential. Noboby's perfect, but hitting triple digits is done on purpose, not through lack of attention to detail. I think if more folks considered the reality of the potential consequences of such speeds on public roads that far fewer would engage.

And I don't have the answer to my own suggestion - better education. The only education I can say hand-on-heart that has kept me from ever crashing a sportsbike is information found on forums, and what I've learnt riding with small groups. But I've gone 5 years without so much as a 0Kph spill, and if I can learn others definitely can.

Without a new solution, we have only the current "solution" with which to work. Yes, many folks can learn. But, as with all things, there will always be those that can only a achieve a minimum of proficiency. That's just a simple fact of life in all matters.

There's one thing I specifically want to address:

"Originally Posted by MelodicMetalGod
why should the less skillful be excluded from use of the roadways?"

How can you say that? Surely you agree a lack of sufficient skill and control is the cause for 99% of accidents? You're so concerned about the families of pedestrians injured by (of all unlikely things) a speeding biker - consider how many accidents are the result of a deficiency in skill and control where speed is not exceeded?!

My point with that comment was not to permit folks that can't see, have no control, no regard for their actions, etc. Rather I'm saying that there will always be folks that CAN reasonably control a vehicle (and be comfortable) at current speed limits (55/65 mph) that would also never be comfortable and/or in full control running at 100 mph and still more that would never be proficient at 150 mph. So, the point being, 55 mph allows the majority of the population the opportunity to participate in the transportation system. Again, the point of the public roads is transportation, point A to point B, not to provide us with a playground (much to our frustration and disappointment).

To be crystal clear, yes, if someone has so little skill as to be unsafe at any speed, then they should not be allowed on the roads. But that is not the typical driver (although I'm sure many of us could argue to the contrary ).

I say again, instead of reducing speed limits it would be more beneficial to everyone if something were done about the skill and control of all road users, drivers and riders alike. But of course it would require huge budgets and masses of effort, both of which are easily avoided by just dropping the limit and instead raking in money from excessive speeding fines.

One more thing...the fines are just an income for the municipalities. If they were truly worried about safety then they have much better options than speed cameras at their disposal. A few suggestions always spring to mind:

1) Speed Cameras: I hate 'em! The snap ya for doin' 6 mph over. IMHO, it s/b a 10 mph trigger at the least. But, they want they're quotas. Around here, they have speed cameras going up every month. A ticket costs 40 bucks, but there's no points on the license, so while folks gripe about the 40 bucks, most just see it as a cost of doing business. If they REALLY wanted people to "be safe" by driving at the posted limit, they would charge points to the license. But they don't b/c that would actually discourage the petty speeding that rakes in the cash since after 12 points your license is suspended, thereby reducing their income. It's a punk system.

2) Red Light Cameras and Stop Sign Cameras: Again, if safety is the main concern then every single speed camera should've been a red light or stop sign camera. In the lat 10 years, I have seen a steady increase the in the number of both red light runners and stop sign runners and the disaster potential from those infractions is infiitiely more dangerous that a 10 or 20 mph speed infraction!!! People don't run red lights at 10 or 20 mph, they're doin' it at usually 10 or 20 over the limit for the road as they rush to "make the light" and when the eff it up they T-Bone some poor oblivious driver at 40 mph or better. That's a devastating accident! Yet, red light cameras do not get anywhere near the focus of speed cameras b/c there just aren't as many incidents and therefore not as much money to collect.

3) Make a real drivers license test. Here in MD, you DO NOT EVEN HAVE TO DRIVE ON THE STREET for the test. It's all done in a closed course that reuires little more than being able to point a vehicle and be able to stop it. Top speed during the test is about 15 mph and the highlight/tough bit is, get this....being able to successfully parallel park!!!!! WTF?!!?!??!! Oh, and, nothing against our non-english speaking citizens, but 99% or our road signs are ENGLISH ONLY...but you can take the written test in Spanish if you don't know ENGLISH!?!?!?!?!??!?!? How the EFF are you supposed to understand road signs if you can't read them?!?!?!?!??!?!

Oy veh. Sorry for the ranting...well, not really. It's just that there's a lot of silly stuff that goes on out there that results in a lot of completely avoidable danger to all us.

Enjoy the ride but ride safe!

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

If there's no one on the road but you, and weather is perfect, why shouldn't you be able to go as fast as you want? Sorta like the "Autobahn approach" to speed limits.

And, at the risk of repeating myself, it just seems silly to see speed limits of 55 today on the very same roads that bore speed limits of 65 several years ago - before all the "safety" features of autos. Seems like it would be more logical to RAISE the speed limit, not LOWER it - assuming all other things were equal. Even on rural interstates, the speed limit today is 70, whereas it was 75 back in the late 60's. Makes no sense to me. It's ARBITRARY - set by some bureaucrat with absolute job security, untouchable by the populace, and unresponsive to the average citizen.

Guess I should point out that I'm talking RURAL roads here, not urban, not city, not high-traffice grid-lock roadways. I'm talking about the highways and bi-ways where you meet fewer than 1 car per mile. No commercial development, sparse population. Wildlife perhaps pose the biggest to riders of all.

Well, the Autobahn is that way. But...everyone on it knows the concept. Nobody gets on the Autobahn if they're not comfortable with the speeds that they may encounter from others. The drivers there also live by the rule that if you're going slower, move to the right and if you're moving, get to the left. High beam flashes are not "*******" signals but a respectful tap on the shoulder to move right to allow faster traffic to move on.

Here, a drive hits a road w/posted limits and should be able to reasonably expect to do that limit without getting jumped by someone going twice as fast, in either direction.

That said, I have acknowledged that if you are the only one truly at risk, then by all mean, the choice is yours. However, there are far too many riders that feel that they are the only ones at risk as long as they can not see another vehicle at that instant. Have they considered cross traffic? Pedestrian traffic? Driveways? Blind curves? Cars that may be pitted at the side of the road at night? For many riders, it's virutally impossible to be truly isolated from other people to be certain no one else is at risk should I wish to hit warp speed.

As for the lower speed limits, there is one perfectly logical reason for lower limits: greater gas mileage. There is a sweet spot between wind resistance and speed at which you get the best mileage, and I'm pretty sure it's somewhere around 55 mph.

Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that the general population would be less safe if limits were in the 70 or 75 mph range...they do that in most 55 mph zones already and there is no evidence that the increase is a great cause of accidents. A much greater cause of accidents is speed differential. The greater the difference in speed from the general flow of traffic, the greater the likelihood of an accident. Which brings me back to why triple digits have no place on the public roads.

 

[KvHotDog4]

I can't point any fingers because on a track I have only seen 108 MPH, but the most I have seen on my bike is 180 and its so hard when merging onto the interstate to not atleast touch 100mph. I will agree 100% there is no reason to be doing 100 mph plus. I also agree that alot of speed limits are way too low, however, if you admit it or not there is a system involved in setting speeds that include a lot of factors not thought of by the normal driver such as road conditions, amount of normal traffic, hills, curves, rollersoaster bumps, line of sight, businesses on the side of roads that may have your attention.

I do believe speed cameras are just a way to get money because police officers ARE ABLE TO SLOW DOWN ANY ROAD THEY WANT!!!! Here is an example:
Anyone familiar with the Nashville area will know this, Briely Parkway its a road just off the interstate that is just like an interstate no roads connecting only on ramps and off ramps the speed limit is 55mph it could very easily be 70+. Back a few years ago they were having alot of problems with people speeding they finally decided to do something about it. They had helicopters radaring and radioing to cars on the street, also had police officers every 1/4 to 1/2 mile or so on both sides of the road standing outside of their cars with laser guns when you were caught they would walk out into your lane pointing for you to pull over, very brave but think about it where would you go if you decided to run, tried to run him over or worst of all did run him over? Helicopters already out, police officers every 1/4 to 1/2 mile you can try to run but honestly you cannot outrun a city that is already organized and ready to catch you. That road now several years later most people go 55 - 60 mph every now and then you get someone flying past everyone but everytime I see it, that same person is pulled over just a little ways down the road I make sure to honk and wave as I pass

 

[surt]

You got it MetalGod, I figured you wrong

 

[Edeezy]

Rule is, Don't run if you can't get away. But seriously, even if you stop, they can still say you ran, even if you didn't. And guess who the judge belives in court
Gee your honor, I was doin 140, of course it took him awhile to catch up, but I wasn't runnin, honest. SpeedKing, I hope they didn't try and pin felony eluding/evading on you too, regardless that you stopped.

The thing is, they have to be sure you know they were coming after you. They cant really say you ran if you could say you never saw them. At that speed why would you even be looking back? They must know that most motorcycle mirrors just shows your elbows or shoulders. Depending on the circumstances, i would of probably made a run for it. lease:

 

[Edeezy]

Glad to hear that you don't advocate such speeds. At the same time, you don't get there by accident. We've all been speeding but exceeding the limits by 25 mph or greater whent here is any chance of others being involved in a potential accident greatly increases that potential. Noboby's perfect, but hitting triple digits is done on purpose, not through lack of attention to detail. I think if more folks considered the reality of the potential consequences of such speeds on public roads that far fewer would engage.





Without a new solution, we have only the current "solution" with which to work. Yes, many folks can learn. But, as with all things, there will always be those that can only a achieve a minimum of proficiency. That's just a simple fact of life in all matters.




My point with that comment was not to permit folks that can't see, have no control, no regard for their actions, etc. Rather I'm saying that there will always be folks that CAN reasonably control a vehicle (and be comfortable) at current speed limits (55/65 mph) that would also never be comfortable and/or in full control running at 100 mph and still more that would never be proficient at 150 mph. So, the point being, 55 mph allows the majority of the population the opportunity to participate in the transportation system. Again, the point of the public roads is transportation, point A to point B, not to provide us with a playground (much to our frustration and disappointment).

To be crystal clear, yes, if someone has so little skill as to be unsafe at any speed, then they should not be allowed on the roads. But that is not the typical driver (although I'm sure many of us could argue to the contrary ).




One more thing...the fines are just an income for the municipalities. If they were truly worried about safety then they have much better options than speed cameras at their disposal. A few suggestions always spring to mind:

1) Speed Cameras: I hate 'em! The snap ya for doin' 6 mph over. IMHO, it s/b a 10 mph trigger at the least. But, they want they're quotas. Around here, they have speed cameras going up every month. A ticket costs 40 bucks, but there's no points on the license, so while folks gripe about the 40 bucks, most just see it as a cost of doing business. If they REALLY wanted people to "be safe" by driving at the posted limit, they would charge points to the license. But they don't b/c that would actually discourage the petty speeding that rakes in the cash since after 12 points your license is suspended, thereby reducing their income. It's a punk system.


Enjoy the ride but ride safe!

Pfft! I wished if it were as simple as handing over money to speed. If all i had to do is pay for a fine for speeding id do it all day!! A singular $300 ticket doesn't hurt me as much as impounding, high ins rates or revoked license etc.

 

[Speed King]

This was kinda like how it went for me. lol

 

[LeeFL2]

The only place one can be guaranteed of a clean getaway is on a crowded to semi crowded freeway in a urban area with lots of exits. I95 in Palm Beach/Broward is perfect fot that. To attempt it on a straight away like that is stupid since the cops can open their cars up to 150. Around here if they dont light u up, you open it up and count two or three exits and get off. Never attempt a getaway on a straight like that. Never evade. If they lit u up, pull over. If they havent closed the gap, dont let em.

 

[surt]

This was kinda like how it went for me. lol

Pulled a gun out dude wasn't even running away!
**** he was ready to KILL that man for speeding!!
What the **** is wrong with police?!?!

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Pulled a gun out dude wasn't even running away!
**** he was ready to KILL that man for speeding!!
What the **** is wrong with police?!?!

While I don't agree with it myself, it is fairly common knowledge that if you're committing a felony (speeding by 25 or more over the limit) that the cops policy is to assume that you may be running that hard b/c you're wanted for another, more serious felony. Thus, they pull the weapon for their safety.

In their defense, they treated the rider quite well. No roughing him up or anything. Just cuffed him and searched him while ensuring their own safety. I've seen many of these end with the rider getting needlessly bashed and battered. If all cops handled themselves this way, it would be a blessing.

 

[surt]

Sorry, can't agree with that mate.
If I were American, videos like this would embarrass me.

 

[LeeFL2]

Sorry, can't agree with that mate.
If I were American, videos like this would embarrass me.

Our rights to bear arms have not been taken from us. These guys have legit reasons to be carefull...

 

[TIMMYDUCK]

Got bike impounded for speeding , stupid , stupid, stupid
Had to pay $253 bucks to get my bike out of impound , spent the night in jail, $500.00 bail.
I was traveling 140mph in a 55, they are going to mail me my court date.

You guys can rag on me all ya want, i did a very stupid thing and now I am going to have to pay the price

Cest la vie .....

Been down that ugly road myself .....

Just live and learn, they won't kill you or take away your birthday.

Just hang you out to dry financially in every possible way.

 

[MetalDisorder]

Wow this thread sure got philosophical
I say ride the way you want , Take your own risks and don't try to tell me how to ride.
Simple ...Yes ??

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Wow this thread sure got philosophical
I say ride the way you want , Take your own risks and don't try to tell me how to ride.
Simple ...Yes ??

Take your own risks, agreed. Assuming you don't force innocents to share those risks with you.

Ride the way you want, agreed. As long as you don't violate the right of innocents to safe travel on public roads.

You're right. It IS simple.

Oh, and BTW, riding IS a philosophy, one way or another, for everyone I've ever met that truly rides.

 

[bignblue]

Just so you know, I always pull over and I have had many conversations with the Policemen and Women. There is always a way to talk to them and explain your side. They are not out to get you, they are more concerned with you being a hoon and hurting someone else and/or yourself!

Bubba

i agree, accelerated hard to 110mph from a stop when a patrol was behind me without my knowing, The patrol caught up at the next light, gave me a lecture and a ticket for 80mph.