GUN CONTROL........ hahaha

[RedBull]

An 18-year old can
legally buy a shotgun .

The airline only verifies
that it is unloaded and
properly packed - they
do not verify ownership
or legality .

Waiting periods
do not prevent
premeditated
crimes . . .

Waiting periods primarily
( 99 + % ) only affect
( negatively affect )
law abiding folks .

 

[SuedePflow]

She didn't have one to fly. That was what she was trying to work around.

I know. My post was referring to being able to fly a gun. Many seem to think it's not legally possible. But one could buy in one state and fly it to another, all legally.

Waiting periods don't negatively affect all law abiding folks. They allow the state a chance to ensure that the person buying has not lost the right to do so. They may negatively affect some gun buyers (who are indeed law abiding folks), but if a few days patience is the cost of safety, so be it....

I disagree. Even if just a minor inconvenience, it's a negative affect. Imagine a 5-day waiting period for a gallon of milk, or a new shirt, or a set if tires. Not the end of the world, but a huge pain in the ass and mostly for no good reason.

I once bought a competition shotgun days before a match. If MI had a waiting period, I would not have been able to compete. That would have been a negative affect for a law abiding person.

Background checks take 20 min or less to process. The fact that some states call their waiting period a "cool down period" seems to imply that it has nothing to do with verifying the legal right to bear arms.

A waiting period in the name of "safety" is a joke.

 

[jermzfree]

Waiting periods primarily (99+%) only affect (negatively affect) law abiding folks.

Even if it only works 1% of the time, can't you wait to buy a gun to potentially stop a crime? After work it sure is convenient to stop by the local convenience store and pick up a candy bar or beer if I get a hankering. But I'd be willing to wait if it would save a life. But if there was a waiting period I would be armed to the teeth with Snickers and Cinnerator!

 

[Mr Brown]

I know. My post was referring to being able to fly a gun. Many seem to think it's not legally possible. But one could buy in one state and fly it to another, all legally.

Gotcha, I misunderstood.

I disagree. Even if just a minor inconvenience, it's a negative affect. Imagine a 5-day waiting period for a gallon of milk, or a new shirt, or a set if tires. Not the end of the world, but a huge pain in the ass and mostly for no good reason.

I once bought a competition shotgun days before a match. If MI had a waiting period, I would not have been able to compete. That would have been a negative affect for a law abiding person.

Background checks take 20 min or less to process. The fact that some states call their waiting period a "cool down period" seems to imply that it has nothing to do with verifying the legal right to bear arms.

A waiting period in the name of "safety" is a joke.

I think that the potential of saving a life, even if it's only one life, is absolutely a good enough reason to make people wait. I suspect anyone would if they knew who's life it would save. I can live with being inconvenienced if it makes society a safer place, even if it's only marginally safer. Think of it like a stoplight: an inconvenience to be sure, particularly if you're already late, but necessary to keep us all safer overall.
Calling it a cooling off period is dumb, but as far as speed, bureaucracies move slowly, it's the nature of the beast.

 

[ogre]

what needs to happen is for the background check system to be fully utilized, so that the data is all searchable, quickly. Also, repeal the NFA and all gun laws are an infringement.

 

[Dougyp333]

Even if it only works 1% of the time, can't you wait to buy a gun to potentially stop a crime? After work it sure is convenient to stop by the local convenience store and pick up a candy bar or beer if I get a hankering. But I'd be willing to wait if it would save a life. But if there was a waiting period I would be armed to the teeth with Snickers and Cinnerator!

Apply the "if it saves just one life" argument to a broader bit of life. Cars gone (over 30K a year killed in cars). Drugs gone (legal and illegal). You can apply this standard to about anything and everything.

 

[jermzfree]

Apply the "if it saves just one life" argument to a broader bit of life. Cars gone (over 30K a year killed in cars). Drugs gone (legal and illegal). You can apply this standard to about anything and everything.

Not disagreeing with that argument. I was simply asking if it a big inconvenience to wait to buy a gun? And does that inconvenience out weigh the small chance of stopping a school shooting?

 

[Mr Brown]

Apply the "if it saves just one life" argument to a broader bit of life. Cars gone (over 30K a year killed in cars). Drugs gone (legal and illegal). You can apply this standard to about anything and everything.

We do apply this standard to most things which are inherently dangerous. We have speed limits for cars, drugs are regulated, and so on. Lives are indisputably saved by these policies, how many is questionable, as is the cost of them.

 

[Dougyp333]

Not disagreeing with that argument. I was simply asking if it a big inconvenience to wait to buy a gun? And does that inconvenience out weigh the small chance of stopping a school shooting?

I am not aware of a mass shooting that was a spur of the moment crime. They are almost always planned well in advance so a waiting "cooling off" period would be of questionable value. If someone has the thought process to go to a gun shop, fill out the forms, buy the ammo, etc. and then shoot someone, it is no longer a crime of passion.

 

[SuedePflow]

Even if it only works 1% of the time, can't you wait to buy a gun to potentially stop a crime? After work it sure is convenient to stop by the local convenience store and pick up a candy bar or beer if I get a hankering. But I'd be willing to wait if it would save a life. But if there was a waiting period I would be armed to the teeth with Snickers and Cinnerator!

I think that the potential of saving a life, even if it's only one life, is absolutely a good enough reason to make people wait. I suspect anyone would if they knew who's life it would save. I can live with being inconvenienced if it makes society a safer place, even if it's only marginally safer. Think of it like a stoplight: an inconvenience to be sure, particularly if you're already late, but necessary to keep us all safer overall.
Calling it a cooling off period is dumb, but as far as speed, bureaucracies move slowly, it's the nature of the beast.

I am FAR from convinced that a waiting period decreases crime at all. The ~1% are people purposely waiting (IE: shipping in from out of state, using layaway, etc...).

Where is the logic here? John Q Citizen wants to buy a new handgun. He is law-abiding and has zero intention of causing hard to others with it. He is forced to wait 3 or 5 or 7 days to take possession of the good be already paid for. Where is the saved life?

In any case of a shooting that I've read about, if the gun was purchased legally, it was purchased long enough before the crime occurred, thereby negating any waiting period. Like I said, waiting periods don't affect crime.

 

[Mr Brown]

I am FAR from convinced that a waiting period decreases crime at all. The ~1% are people purposely waiting (IE: shipping in from out of state, using layaway, etc...).

Where is the logic here? John Q Citizen wants to buy a new handgun. He is law-abiding and has zero intention of causing hard to others with it. He is forced to wait 3 or 5 or 7 days to take possession of the good be already paid for. Where is the saved life?

In any case of a shooting that I've read about, if the gun was purchased legally, it was purchased long enough before the crime occurred, thereby negating any waiting period. Like I said, waiting periods don't affect crime.

So how is the buyers legal status to be determined?

 

[08BusaKY]

We do not have waiting periods in KY and they do an instant background check.

Also what if a woman or man was threatened by and ex or whoever and during that waiting period were killed when they could have otherwise had a chance...

 

[RedBull]

So how is
the buyers
legal status
to be determined ?

 

[SuedePflow]

Also, repeal the NFA

I would LOVE to see this. The idea of taxing a right out of financial reach, should be illegal.

 

[RedBull]

I would
LOVE to
see this .

The idea of taxing
a right out of
financial reach ,
should be illegal .

 

[Mr Brown]

We do not have waiting periods in KY and they do an instant background check.

Also what if a woman or man was threatened by and ex or whoever and during that waiting period were killed when they could have otherwise had a chance...

An instant background check is acceptable, as long as records are kept up to date.
The "could have" argument has unlimited possibilities and as such really isn't a valid way of making policy.

 

[SuedePflow]

So how is the buyers legal status to be determined?

In Michigan, there's two ways. 1) The buyer has a CPL (concealed pistol license) and has been previously vetted and cleared to purchase and own firearms. Or 2) the buyer submits to a background check on the spot. This entails a ~20 min phone call to the FBI's NICS system.

In Michigan, we don't force law-abiding people to wait to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[Mr Brown]

In Michigan, there's two ways. 1) The buyer has a CPL (concealed pistol license) and has been previously vetted and cleared to purchase and own firearms. Or 2) the buyer submits to a background check on the spot. This entails a ~20 min phone call to the FBI's NICS system.

I Michigan, we don't force law-abiding people to wait to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

How long does the vetting process take for the Concealed carry? If the FBI's system is constantly updated, then that would be sufficient.
The second amendment doesn't say anything about a waiting period, and the courts have ruled that waiting does not constitute an infringement. There are many non gun owning people who are governed by the same constitution as those who do, their rights carry the same amount of weight as the rights of gun owners, Waiting periods are supported by far more people (both gun owners and not) than those against.

 

[08BusaKY]

An instant background check is acceptable, as long as records are kept up to date.
The "could have" argument has unlimited possibilities and as such really isn't a valid way of making policy.

Different scenarios should always be taken into account when making policy...

 

[Mr Brown]

Different scenarios should always be taken into account when making policy...

I agree completely, but policymaking is, by definition, a compromise. Every possible contingency cannot be accounted for, nor every need addressed. This is especially true where not all those who the policy will constrain view issues in the same light. As a counter to your position for example, what about the person who buys a gun on the spot to defend themselves in the scenario you describe, but that gun is taken from them and used against them? The argument would then be that had they not had access to a weapon at that time they would still be alive. I don't necessarily agree with that position, I think that it's more complicated than that, but the logic holds.
The bottom line in this particular part of the gun control debate is this: some people believe a waiting period is a good thing and have caused legislation reflecting that to be enacted, for others the reverse is true. There are valid points on both sides of the debate, but I personally think the inconvenience posed by enforcing a waiting period is insignificant compared to the good it does.