LATIN SECTION

[Cuffee]

I happen to have been born in the USA to "Illegal" immigrants from Mexico nearly thirty years ago. You may have noticed my avatar, that should spell it out for you.  The original reads Hecho en Mexico. You all know enough Espanol to understand it. If not you might have drank Corona beer at one point or another. Looking at the text on the label will tell you about it.
I went through the social abuse cycle much like illegal immigrants do today, my first language being Spanish resulted in a bit of an accent when attending school. Thus resulting in ridicule. This mostly from second and third generation Hispanics that did not ever speak spanish. Most of the time I am silent when commentary about Mexicans or Americans with Mexican heritage is mentioned even though it is insulting and demeaning.
I spent eight years in the USAF, earned a college degree and catapulted myself out of a fairly less than average socio-economic situation in the Hispanic Barrio into that which I am in today.
This forum's sympathetic comments lead me to think that most of the members here are fairly intelligent and worldly people. The positive comments about laborers from Mexico are a breath of fresh air.  Agriculture in this country is entirely supported on the backs of Mexicans. The construction industry particularly in the Southwest is populated with Mexican laborers who are both illegal and legal residents in this country. The entire service industry in the majority of the country is manned by Hispanics, those from south of the border all the way to Chile and Argentina.
We are very quickly becoming more than just those annoying brown people that talk funny and turning into a political force with the momentum of a downhill freight-train.
'So-called' illegal immigrants are the bedrock of this country. They pay taxes on their earnings. Taxes that are never returned in a tax refund. The government knows the value of the illegal worker because of the huge budget surpluses. That $600 tax refund you got a couple of years ago is because of the money "messicans" don't get back.  They account for an economy of billions of dollars due to their work ethic and desire to become Americans. Americans that don't just speak English but in fact speak hundreds of languages all the way from Albanian to Zwahili.
There is a reason that they are repressed, this is to weed out the ones that don't belong. They are chased by "la migra" and the ones that aren't smart enough to run away are thus expelled until they adapt and assimilate. If you make it to a 'legal residence' of seven years without getting into trouble you then become eligible for naturalization as a US Citizen through the regular immigration amnesty programs that occur every few years.  You have effectively proven your ability to assimilate and obey the law in America.
When the Irish first begun mass (legal through Ellis Island) immigration to the USA they were the "Damn Mexicans". Then the Italians came and were treated the same way. They were followed by the Polish, and so on and so on. Every culture has gotten a taste of that treatment. Even the good ol' southern gentleman that perpetrates denigration and disparaging comments against Mexican immigrants is the product of a mixed ancestry that is a blend of immigrants with the following cultural background: english, irish, german, french, polish, scandinavian, spanish, native american and even Africans.
<span style='color:firebrick'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Texas and Colorado were MEXICO until just over 150 years ago. The Mexicans were there first. It was called Aztlan and is still commonly referred to using that name.</span></span>
There is a movie called "A day without a Mexican". It is worth the watch even though it is obviously low budget. There are some very good points made in it.

What point are you trying to make? Most illegal immigrants DON'T pay taxes! Many illegal immigrants don't contribute financially to society since a large portion of their money is sent back to their families in Mexico.

Think about how much money it costs to provide medical care to illegal immigrants.

Why not become legal residents of the U.S.?

Your points are not valid!

 

[Projekt]

Jessup,
I just used that quote as a segway into the reasons that immigration has been nearly stopped altogether. No you didn't mention the whole GOD thing I did...

 

[Projekt]

I love Mexico--been there about a dozen times. I could easily live through winters there in a small, northern, Gulf coast town. About immigrations...if they contribute to our society, great! If not, send them home and keep them out. If you immigrate to the US, learn English. If you migrate to Mexico, learn Spanish. Sorry though, all too often, Latinos seem to think they are the only men on the planet who have the finesse to handle wood. The "Latin Lover" illusion is hilarious.

Oh cum'on man get over it. English is not the official language in the US. Otherwise, we would not have Spanish, Vietnamese, French, Tagalog, Chinese, and other language tax documents.
The latin lover is an invention more commonly associated with the true latinos. They are from Italy and other former territories of the Roman Empire.

 

[Projekt]

SmilyPR4U,
Mira chica esto se trata de discusion y educacion. La conclusion todavia no a llegado. Calmada...

The objekt is discussion, enlightenment and possible edukation. I am not making an angry statement to offend people merely stating fakts to inform people. Maybe thinking will change slightly because of this.

 

[Projekt]

I don't go to Mexico and expect everybody there to speak english, why does that happen here?  Nothing against anybody, just curious why that is

If I understand you correctly, you wonder why immigrants speak Spanish here. Because they can, because it is legel, because it is their civil liberty, because it feels good, because other people do, because intelligent Americans learn it for the sake of business and just because it is sexy.
 The Hispanic/Latino revolution has already begun.
 The immigrants want to learn English.
 How about this, you take a vacation to Puerto Vallarta and think about learning Spanish. Then FORGET ABOUT IT because everyone at your service speaks English. How can you practice Spanish when you have no one to practice with.
 It is a matter of necessity, if you don't really need to learn it, odds are you won't. Immigrants and citizens of all backgrounds have a multitude of Spanish language Television broadcast networks to choose from that offer them a taste of home and a connection with their new home. Not to mention the unwatered-down normal sexuality and emotion that they are accustomed to in their home countries.
I think that is enough to illustrate the point. I trust that you get the message.

Btw...I believe what WWJD meant is that he doesn't expect everyone to speak english when he goes to Mexico...so why do Mexicans (in this case) expect everyone to speak spanish when they come here?

WWJD please correct me if I am wrong.

Which Mexican immigrants have told you that they expect everyone to speak 'espaneesh'?
I have only ever heard any of them ask "due djew speake espaneesh?" Not "You must speak Spanish to me".

 

[Projekt]

I don't go to Mexico and expect everybody there to speak english, why does that happen here?  Nothing against anybody, just curious why that is

If I understand you correctly, you wonder why immigrants speak Spanish here. Because they can, because it is legel, because it is their civil liberty, because it feels good, because other people do, because intelligent Americans learn it for the sake of business and just because it is sexy.
 The Hispanic/Latino revolution has already begun.
 The immigrants want to learn English.
 How about this, you take a vacation to Puerto Vallarta and think about learning Spanish. Then FORGET ABOUT IT because everyone at your service speaks English. How can you practice Spanish when you have no one to practice with.
 It is a matter of necessity, if you don't really need to learn it, odds are you won't. Immigrants and citizens of all backgrounds have a multitude of Spanish language Television broadcast networks to choose from that offer them a taste of home and a connection with their new home. Not to mention the unwatered-down normal sexuality and emotion that they are accustomed to in their home countries.
I think that is enough to illustrate the point. I trust that you get the message.

Btw...I believe what WWJD meant is that he doesn't expect everyone to speak english when he goes to Mexico...so why do Mexicans (in this case) expect everyone to speak spanish when they come here?

WWJD please correct me if I am wrong.

that's EXACTLY it.  before I am labeled a racist for speaking my opinion, let me state that I am not at all.   ALL people are god's creatures and tons of us speak different languages.

When I travel to Germany and Russia, I NEVER EXPECT to find English anything.  I go and speak THEIR tongue, not mine.

... and in Canada, I try to add a lil english accent    but I always get caught

Nobody is labeling you a racist. There was no mention of that term before you brought it up. I don't want you to go to Mexico, I think that you have made very entertaining contributions to this thread. You are one of the ones that are smart enough to contribute to American society. Are you sure that you are not Mexican because your emotional disposition sure makes you look like one. Just joking that is a stereotype.

I live in Sarajevo and ja govorim Bosenski. Razumijes? So the stereotype of not wanting to learn a foreign language is just not correct. Be cool, don't jump to conclusions, we are all friends and adults.

 

[MACH5]

Oh cum'on man get over it. English is not the official language in the US. Otherwise, we would not have Spanish, Vietnamese, French, Tagalog, Chinese, and other language tax documents. [/QUOTE]

Projekt,
Please do not get mixed up on making communication easier, with their not being an official language in the U.S. I do appreciate the arguments that you make but it really does not matter. There are laws in the U.S. that have to and need to be followed. Certain procedures were put in place for a reason. If we can find a reason to justify breaking the immigrattion laws then there is someone out there that can find a reason to break every law that is on the books. Then we head towards a state of anarchy where no one has any authority. Remember, procedures and laws were created to keep out chaos.

 

[Projekt]

What point are you trying to make? Most illegal immigrants DON'T pay taxes! Many illegal immigrants don't contribute financially to society since a large portion of their money is sent back to their families in Mexico.

Think about how much money it costs to provide medical care to illegal immigrants.

Why not become legal residents of the U.S.?

Your points are not valid!

Okay check this out... You ready? Make sure that you read it carefully. My points are very valid. I am right and I can prove it to you. The proof is very simple. So I will paint a picture for you.... Just watch...
Mexiguy makes decision to take the leap, swim, hike, run or unventilated truck ride across the border. He thinks, "gee wiz como voy a hacer eso?" (how am I going to do that?). I will need money to do it. So Mexiguy saves his pesos for a very long time and starts his journey once he has enough to attempt the crossing. He know roughly how much it will cost because a lot of his family has already gone and found out for themselves what it will take. They know how to send letters, use telephones and even e-mail to talk to loved ones in the old country. So Mexiguy feels confident that he will do fine and providing that he doesn't run out of water in the dessert, isn't ambushed by bandits, drowned in the river, bitten by rabies infected rats, coyotes or other wildlife he makes it across. Then he gets in contact with the Illegal alien support entrepeneurs for false documentation.
Mexiguy acquires a social security number (BINGO) that used to belong to someone recently passed away, or someone still living that might have a Latin name. Next he travels to re-unite with his family.
Practically starved and in need of rest he arrives at this initial destination, which is family, friends or people that have helped others. <span style='color:crimson'><span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:times'>These people help Mexiguy find a job using the Social Security Number that he acquired. He goes to work washing dishes until he graduates to cook then waiter because by then he speaks enough English. Taxes are withheld the entire time but he doesn't file for them because he is afraid of raising eyebrows and linking his address with the false SSN he is using. He just counts his blessings and gives thanks because it is a small price to pay for a stepping stone toward citizenship.</span></span></span>
Medical care, education, social programs? Are you serious? Really? Don't tell me that you are... Use this information to fill in the blanks. The Illegal immigrants pay for it by paying income taxes that are NEVER RECOVERED. So there, now you know.
This "Illegal" process for reaching legal residency is condoned by the establishment. They make it illegal because the US populous says that they "don't want no more messicans here doin my job". So they play the role and hire some Border Control Agents to stop dem pesky messicans. This is just for show of course because the powers that be know the true value of these hard working people willing to risk their lives just to get here to work, PAY TAXES and send some of their money home.
You pay your dues, you do your job, you earn your money. Do what you want to do with your earnings. If that is spending it on your Busa then go ahead because I am all for it. If you have relatives that need help in Poland, Russia, Bosnia or wherever, send them some money. I am not going to be mad at you for it so don't be mad at them for helping out their loved ones.  
Read it a few times at, least three (yes 3) times before you deduce some sort of point and hit me back when you think you are ready.



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[Projekt]

Oh cum'on man get over it. English is not the official language in the US. Otherwise, we would not have Spanish, Vietnamese, French, Tagalog, Chinese, and other language tax documents.

Projekt,
Please do not get mixed up on making communication easier, with their not being an official language in the U.S. I do appreciate the arguments that you make but it really does not matter. There are laws in the U.S. that have to and need to be followed. Certain procedures were put in place for a reason. If we can find a reason to justify breaking the immigrattion laws then there is someone out there that can find a reason to break every law that is on the books. Then we head towards a state of anarchy where no one has any authority. Remember, procedures and laws were created to keep out chaos.[/QUOTE]
You have a very valid point. I agree with you wholeheartedly, seriously. No Joke.
So what do you have to say about ENRON? They might have broken a few laws here and there... Disappointed a few hundred thousand employees, destroyed the retirement expectations of that many too.
Talk about that. Talk about bankruptcy law, talk about LAWYERS. Talk about politicians and law makers. Talk aboutTHE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES and THE SENATE and SPECIAL INTEREST Lobbyists. There you will discover an amazing ability to get around and even re-write law.
America benefits from a multitude of core languages spoken here. The Intelligence agencies here hire tons of folks with those skills to find out what is going on around the world. I think that it a great reason for not declaring an official language.

 

[WarBaby]

Quote (WarBaby @ July 11 2005,12:54)
I love Mexico--been there about a dozen times. I could easily live through winters there in a small, northern, Gulf coast town. About immigrations...if they contribute to our society, great! If not, send them home and keep them out. If you immigrate to the US, learn English. If you migrate to Mexico, learn Spanish. Sorry though, all too often, Latinos seem to think they are the only men on the planet who have the finesse to handle wood. The "Latin Lover" illusion is hilarious.
Oh cum'on man get over it. English is not the official language in the US. Otherwise, we would not have Spanish, Vietnamese, French, Tagalog, Chinese, and other language tax documents. The latin lover is an invention more commonly associated with the true latinos. They are from Italy and other former territories of the Roman Empire.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

No, we don't have an official language but we do have a national language. Why would an immigrant not want to learn the language of their new country of residence if not because of... intellectual laziness? I don't oppose the presence and use of other languages in America. It adds to our cultural diversity which is part of our greatness. If, however, we need interpretors to enter neighborhoods of "non-American" culture within our cities, it is inefficient and impractical at the most fundamental levels, particularly when the new non-English-speaking immigrant gets caught up in legal and other matters that he/she doesn't understand in English.

Also, the Mexican men I referred to earlier regarding Latin Lovers never bothered to differentiate their Roman or Hispanic heritage. They were simply Mexican "lady-killers" personified and loved to boast about it. These are moot points and my intention was not to ruffle your feathers. So, I'll reciprocate your advice to me by saying those who talk loudest and longest typically have the biggest insecurities and the most to prove. Now, try to get over your profound wisdom.

Adios!

 

[Projekt]

Quote: (WarBaby) "Now, try to get over your profound wisdom.

Adios!"
You talk about not trying to ruffle feathers, then you go ahead and make your best ever, oh so subtle attempt to look like you didn't intend to do just that. You sir are a hypocrit. But hey, what is life without a little controversy.
The topic of languages within the United States has already been covered enough. You just want to make a last stinging statement about a variety of things to include, Mexican Men's egos, Languages, and Social Responsibility regarding communication. Good for you I found your post somewhat entertaining, counter-argumentative, philosophical and complementary.
Profound wisdom is what I demonstrate to you, you do not reciprocate this. Merely, you demonstrate closed mindedness and lack of analytical ability as well as simple indifference to the inevitable.
So go buy some land in Baja California, build your home in the typical ex-patriot communities springing up everywhere and remember this someday. You will realize a very long time from now, judging by your lack of progressive thinking, that you were wrong and I am right.

Because before you look up from all of your bills, mortgage, credit card statements etc, and open the blinds to take in the world most of the politicians in your part of this land will have become guys like me with my background and progressively profound wise thinking. Just don't worry, we'll make sure that you are cozy and will cut you a break on a meal because your Senior citizen card and membership in the silver foxes makes you a lamb thus easy to control.

 

[busahaya]

Ok, so when did the founding fathers of the US speak Indian when they immagrated to the U.S.?

 

[WarBaby]

Bueno genio. Eso es precisamente lo que esperé de usted después de leer sus palabras previas.

 

[busahaya]

eh, vamos a comer some pupusas

Con curtido Y salsa de tomate

 

[Mr Brown]

Ok, so when did the founding fathers of the US speak Indian when they immagrated to the U.S.?

They were the only ones here when they arrived?
If Columbus discvered America, and the Founding Fathers created this nation, does that mean I can plant my flag on your front lawn, and my sons can build a new house on your property?
There were people here long before anyone from Europe showed up.......

 

[Projekt]

Bueno genio. Eso es precisamente lo que esperé de usted después de leer sus palabras previas.

Pues mira, mira, miralo, que chingon!  No nomas gavacho, gavacho espia de habla hispana. Felicidades, tu tambien mereces un premio. Aplauso por favor para WarBaby, que despliega sus muchos talentos de comunicacion. Te dire que no estoy sorprendido de tus modos y lenguaje, y tu diras que sabias que yo diria eso.
Es un cyclo de mierda.
Vamos todos a la playa para pensar en esto y tomar varias cervezas Tecates. Despues, porsupuesto de un brindis para la diverisidad de este gran pais.
WarBaby, mi querido amigo. Salud, una copa para ti y los tuyos.  
Y tu BusaHaya, donde estas, Pacoima, Santa Ana, Pico Rivera? Vamos por pupusas cuando yo estare ahi en Agosto. Solo pasame tus datos, por mensaje privado.



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[WarBaby]

Gracias para el aplauso, asno listo. Si usted no era egotista tal, yo continuaría esta diversión. Sin embargo, yo llego a ser aburrido con sus comentarios previsibles. Adiós por la final vez.

 

[BusaCruise]

if your people do not like the conditions in which they live, then it is up to them to make the changes within THEIR OWN COUNTRY and leadership structure.
Swimming, running, crawling, hiding in hidden compartments, digging tunnels, floating on rafts hoping for the right tides....does NOT give anyone or their offspring the right to speak, eat, live, breathe, work or make claim to be an "American Citizen."
This goes for EVERYONE! Mexican, Cuban, Haitians, Columbians, Africans, Iraquies, German, Chinese, Japanese ....E V E R Y O N E.
(except for Hungarian and Sweedish women

)

If we could turn back the clock a good 35 years and then "lock the gates" or "shut the doors on immigration" perhaps then our homeless and jobless Vets, who truley seek work and shelter may have a chance at those agricultural jobs or any of the others you mentioned that are currently dominated by the "latino" community.
We have our own problems like those biotches that abuse the system with welfare and child care abuses. Generations of women and communties that are taught that the more kids you squeeze out, the more money the system pays you. PHUK them... they should have six months to get their shiot together or else the money gets cut off!

There are LEGAL way to enter this country and obtain citizenship...either abide by it or getthfukout!
Our president and elected officials can't seem to find the time and money to educate our youth, pay our teachers and feed our own hungry....but we can search for imaginary WMD and hunt down people that will eventually show their face and get shot anyways. Let us feed our own people heal own own wounds and resist those that feed off our less than perfect immigration system and bleed us like leaches because we can't manage to keep them out.

I have seen places like Miami where the media ridiculed and bombarded the Coast Guard with words and rallies on thier enforcement of the law reguarding "rafters"....in which the ploicy states "if they reach the beach (get to land), then the Coast Guard cannot interfere." It's up to local authorities and INS to weed them out.
There was a day when the CG was using a water cannon to push back a craft away from from shore until a larger vessel could meet up and take the people into custody...no violence...no suffering...but the media was ruthless on it and gave nothing but bad press.
WTF is this country coming to? I also went into a BurgerKing (what's more American than that, eh?) for lunch one afternoon. There was not one word of English on the menu....and nobody on duty spoke English...hello..this is FLORIDA...not cuba not mexico!
I started to order by picture....but wound up using the only sign language I knew... I said

"this is AMERICA" and gave them the middle finger...and walked out.

there is so much to say about this topic that I almost had to bite my tounge and click away from it due to it's volitility. Yet by not speaking, it's the same as saying "it's okay"...and THAT is definitely NOT the case.
I am not personally taking away one's personal accomplishiments, but in light of your paren't "illegal" status..then you too in my eyes would be illegal, therefore not entitled to any of the rights and priviledges afford to you by my tax money...which include healthcare, education and eligibility in the armed forces of this country.
Consider yourself lucky our "lazay fare" attitude towards immigration of the last 5 decades has put you where you are.
It's great to have pride in your heritage...but if you want to explain it to other or share it, I suggest "going home" to that particular country or look for those "seeking" your information.

Frankly, if anyone that fits into my "narrow mind view" doesn't like it, then they should try their "immigration techniques" on a country like China or Vietnam or Russia...and see how fuggin far they get!

I have seen in the news this group that has lately been "stepping up" and trying to help fill the gaps of an otherwise flawed enforcement sytem on immigration...there link is here:
http://www.minutemanhq.com/
I would sooner support this group with whatever donations I felt comfortable with, rather than spend one dime on that rat piss they bottle and call "corona"

we in Florida should have a similar system...it should mandatory of all boat owners to spend at least one weekend a year "patrolling" our coasts.

 

[Mr Brown]

Okay, I'm not fluent in anything besides my native tongue, and I'm starting to feel left out..........

 

[busahaya]

 Y tu BusaHaya, donde estas, Pacoima, Santa Ana, Pico Rivera? Vamos por pupusas cuando yo estare ahi en Agosto. Solo pasame tus datos, por mensaje privado.

Agui estoy en Sur Centro De Los Angeles. Y tu en que parte estas?