Lets go deep!
- Thread starter WWJD
- Start date
DING DING DING DING DING!! Judges?? Yep, that's close enough...
We don't know how to measure it.
My question was more of a "human condition of preceptions" than something with an answer.... how do we respond to things beyond our comprehension. And no, I am not trying to yank any one's chain or waste your time, it is a cool question to determine how you see things. Read on.
This all started in a full moon the other night and me knowing how that affects tides on earth and also knowing people get buggy during full moons and I recently heard there ar more births durring full moons. So, I did a little research to discover how or why the moon affects moods and it was pretty interesting reading how science trys to put knowledge into the gaps where, perhaps, imagination or creativity should go. But that is not good enough. Science must define everything within it's KNOWN confines for it to exist, and therefore space does not. Yet, as most of us seem to be pointing out, space goes against nearly all our KNOWN sciences. There for, it's "existance" must in the form of an UNKNOWN science, thus something COULD exist that WE DON'T KNOW about. We don't know that perhaps space doesn't really consist of intangibles that don't align up with OUR defined sciences. This is inconcievable to us. Yet every day we breath oxygen we can't see, ride in vehicles we have faith in to keep us alive to the next stop, etc and MOST of that can be defined by science but not everything. But we don't think or worry about that stuff, and why would we? We just trust the sun will come up the next day and that the universe will not expand too much before lunch tomorrow, ruining our day.
Many people, including myself started answering the questions with the "knowns": debri, planets, gas, very small rocks etc etc but it wasn't until I climbed out of the box and were able to look at it NOT with in the confines of science, but using my imagination [where I get to create something from nothing] and think maybe space consists of something else... maybe it is all held together by SOMETHING we might define as an emotion: say like love. Maybe this is where many religions define God as Love - maybe Love is an 'element' so to speak, but is impossible for us to detect - that could be like detecting God.
Don't worry, I'm not really going deep into the religious stuff here.
But the fact that I was open my preception reception to a point where I could accept not knowing everything, is the embracing of humanities infancy, and allows me to live a little freer. At least that's how I think.
I agree with Einstien and was shocked when I first discovered his quote - yes, maybe it was out of context for his time but it does say something important otherwise nobody would care what it said:
Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
I am glad we have good science and do good stuff with it, but I feel knowledge can NOT exist without imagination, but imagination sure as heck can live without knowledge. I also beleive the absorbtion of knowledge can displace imagination in our brain, or retrain creativity OUT of our brain and therefore it is dangerous. I would prefer to live a life of imagination than live a life absorbing knowledge.
Ok, truth be told, this all stems from me beign disenchanted with my job that is more knowledge-based than imagination based. The question hit me today on the way to lunch today and I rationed it was not so much the the ANSWER to the question that defined who I am, so much as what I was able to ACCEPT as an answer to the question:
Space can not be nothing, it is measureable, we just don't know how to measure it.
That's a very good way to put it. My answer was:
Things exists that I will never know about but they are there. That's enough proof for me to beleive in thier existance at all. I have faith they are there and I refuse to let childish inadiquacies of SCIENCE dictate or confine my being.*
There's no right or wrong answers to the question, just the acceptace of knowing we are capable of admitting there may be more than we know, is really the answer. I think anyway.
It's so good to see knowledge has not bred out imagination yet.
* Any parallels to my personal religious beliefs are strictly coincidental. maybe.
** No m00ses were harmed during the creation of this thread, even the one that bit me sister
What I find interesting is that there is a lot more empty "space" in space than there is solid matter.
Likewise, when you get to the atomic level of all solids, you suddenly find that there again, there is more "space" than solid matter.
We're all just a bunch of emptiness, frankly.
The hypothesis: if you look inward, our "solidity" is a result of the interactions of energy spanning the empty spaces in our personal atomic structure. Therefore, in space, there is likely some form of energy spanning the spaces and as someone already mentioned, we just don't know how to measure it yet. It likely has a motion of sorts (wave) but it's on such a large scale, we will have to put up a meter on the scale of the solar system in order to successfully measure it.
Dark matter or dark energy? Or something like that.
--Wag--
Likewise, when you get to the atomic level of all solids, you suddenly find that there again, there is more "space" than solid matter.
We're all just a bunch of emptiness, frankly.
The hypothesis: if you look inward, our "solidity" is a result of the interactions of energy spanning the empty spaces in our personal atomic structure. Therefore, in space, there is likely some form of energy spanning the spaces and as someone already mentioned, we just don't know how to measure it yet. It likely has a motion of sorts (wave) but it's on such a large scale, we will have to put up a meter on the scale of the solar system in order to successfully measure it.
Dark matter or dark energy? Or something like that.
--Wag--
Facts are precisely what there is not, only interpretations. - F. Nietzsche
There are more things in heaven and earth, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy - Hamlet
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. - Einstein
There are more things in heaven and earth, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy - Hamlet
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. - Einstein
Infinite possibilities of space. If you can imagine it there, it probably exists. Are we just a sodium atom?
Why do we know more about space than we know about our own oceans?
Speed has nothing to do with time. "Time" as an entity is a constant, where as speed is an ever changing entity. Their common bond is both are endless. Just because you can/could leave France on the Concord and arrive in NY before you left, doesn't mean you have traveled in time. Time will still be in existance, long after the Earth is gone.
Space has to have some sort of density. Otherwise rocket propultion would not work. Newton's third law doesn't apply. The rapid expansion of gases must have something to push against for propultion to occur. (air, water, earth) Other wise the rapid expansion of gasses are the reaction. Going from a liquid to a "burnt" gas, expanding into an empty space. An example if put an air tank with a valve attached to a vaccumed bell jar, the jar would accept the air from the tank without reaction, if the jar could retain a vaccume.
It could then be said that the expanding gasses themselves become the "backing" and allow the propultion.
The difference between a created vaccum and the vaccum of space is this:
A created vaccum can be filled or re-filled and retains a finite area. Space can not be filled as it is infinite.
We try and equate the physical characteristics (sp) of the Earth with space. This can not be done. Comparing apples to cats would be easier.
Time is allways a paradox. You can't change an act in the past. Because if you change it, it didn't exist for you to change.
Now with a melted brain.
Later,
Steve
HT_USMC
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Why not? I was using the example of a substance (space, water, whatever) being released from a container into a vacuum. Space consists of a bunch of stuff (Planets, galaxies, matter) that is contained(?) in a vacuum. A vacuum has to be contained in something, and caused by something, (an action) or it does not occur.If the vacuum in which our known universe is contained is the space behind a truck, or the space in someone's lungs, they/it is the causer/container, and they are quite large....
Second, there are more forces than just friction acting in space. Gravity, Magnetics, some friction due to planets/debris, exploding/imploding stars... [/QUOTE]
These all exist on a comparitively local scale. There is no evidence of the entire universe reacting in unison to any of these forces.
The problem is the water stops because it is something (not nothing) and has a particular measurable quantity. Space is nothing and therefore has no measuremable quantity.[/QUOTE]
Space can not be nothing, it is measureable, we just don't know how to measure it......[/QUOTE]
Great debate Mr. Brown! I agree with you on certain points on yet others I'd have to continue to disagree. I think it's the disagreements that would broaden one of or both of our horizons.
I'm buying...
1127 TO 1299
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to answer the question, we need to know what was before the BIG BANG. What was containing all that matter? Some theories says the big bang is a recurring event. Expansion-contraction-expansion...
By looking further and further to the "boundaries" of the univers, we might be able to understand the beginning.
By looking further and further to the "boundaries" of the univers, we might be able to understand the beginning.
I don't recall ever hearing this question in Science classes before. must be outside the realm of teaching only the known... they leave the unknown to ART class!! hahahhaaa
Wag, is the empty space REALLY empty or just empty to our known preceptions? fish move thru water, ants move thru dirt, birds move above the ground, we move thru air - unless we're swimming, flying, or digging
on a tangent... none of those animals have enough KNOWLEDGE to question their existance, they just do it and enjoy it and not waste time on such trivialties - not like WE do
I kind of agree with the rocket thing.... WHAT IS it pushing against? Nasa trains astronaughts underwater to assist with the weightlessness thing - video and movies seem to show astronaught 'moving slowly' while floating around... wouldn't they be able to move fast up in the space station only dressed in their underwear?
Wag, is the empty space REALLY empty or just empty to our known preceptions? fish move thru water, ants move thru dirt, birds move above the ground, we move thru air - unless we're swimming, flying, or digging
on a tangent... none of those animals have enough KNOWLEDGE to question their existance, they just do it and enjoy it and not waste time on such trivialties - not like WE do
I kind of agree with the rocket thing.... WHAT IS it pushing against? Nasa trains astronaughts underwater to assist with the weightlessness thing - video and movies seem to show astronaught 'moving slowly' while floating around... wouldn't they be able to move fast up in the space station only dressed in their underwear?
HT_USMC
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Or do we just assume those animals do not have any understanding/knowledge, based on our limited ability to communicate with and comprehend other species? Perhaps birds understand aerodynamics better than any scientist. It's entirely possible they actually see wind and air currents. Maybe to them they see air as we see water. Maybe fish don't see water at all and it is invisible to them, as they are surrounded by it from "birth". Who's to say....Wag, is the empty space REALLY empty or just empty to our known preceptions? fish move thru water, ants move thru dirt, birds move above the ground, we move thru air - unless we're swimming, flying, or digging
on a tangent... none of those animals have enough KNOWLEDGE to question their existance, they just do it and enjoy it and not waste time on such trivialties - not like WE do
busavas
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Space: it's the distance from the starting line to the finish line, which measures 1320 ft. It is meant to be conquered as quickly as possible on my Busa.
Just kidding. How about comparing it to a giant being. All those stars are atoms. The planets orbiting around the stars are similar to an electrons orbiting around the nucleus of an atom. Earth happens to be an electron that has bacteria on it, and that would be us
The meaning of life... figure that out and you'll probably know what space is too. However, I don't recommend having discussion about while on a date
Just kidding. How about comparing it to a giant being. All those stars are atoms. The planets orbiting around the stars are similar to an electrons orbiting around the nucleus of an atom. Earth happens to be an electron that has bacteria on it, and that would be us
The meaning of life... figure that out and you'll probably know what space is too. However, I don't recommend having discussion about while on a date
'nihtun-o-tol elohw a
if animals had some consciouis intelligent thought, they'd stop eating each other. ... and also wear digital watches.
Here's what goes thru a birds mind interpretted for english for our understanding:
[morning] black gone... same place... no danger?... must pee.... HUNGER!... oooh cold too.... "going up, warms you up"... bread crust spotted, diving maneuver... mmmm.... OOPS! right on that black car... shame... HUNGER!... must [insert procreation term here] with that cute bird... schweeeeet!.... sleep.... HUNGER!.... more 'up' over trees..... WEEEEE down fast fun.... BANG! BANG? yes BANG BANG!... my 'flapper' thingy stings!.... OOPS! on bright orange round thing with bang stick.... dark... cold... HUNGER!... sleep
The meaning of life is so simple everyone ignores it: it is to LIVE it, not waste that time QUESTIONING it
Here's what goes thru a birds mind interpretted for english for our understanding:
[morning] black gone... same place... no danger?... must pee.... HUNGER!... oooh cold too.... "going up, warms you up"... bread crust spotted, diving maneuver... mmmm.... OOPS! right on that black car... shame... HUNGER!... must [insert procreation term here] with that cute bird... schweeeeet!.... sleep.... HUNGER!.... more 'up' over trees..... WEEEEE down fast fun.... BANG! BANG? yes BANG BANG!... my 'flapper' thingy stings!.... OOPS! on bright orange round thing with bang stick.... dark... cold... HUNGER!... sleep
The meaning of life is so simple everyone ignores it: it is to LIVE it, not waste that time QUESTIONING it
.tnatropmI s'TAHT ?t'nod nemow tub meht bur uoy nehw ria eht otni pu spih rieht hsup stac yhw dna esrevinu eht fo retnec eht ot teg ot ekat ti seod skcil ynam woh dna ?tsaot fo gninaem eht si tahw :ekil scipot gnitseretni revo etacinummoc nac ew os snoziroh ruo nedaorb dna fo kaeps ew ecaps eht otni tuo teg dna tenretni eht no emit hcum os gnitsaw pots dna efil a teg dluohs lla ew ebyaM !ssengnihton otni tniop elohw eht kcartedis dna selbmar yllis eseht htiw ti trevid otyrt si od nac uoy lla dna cipot gnitseretni dna dilav a thiw pu emoc ot yrt I ? ?elpoep uoy htiw RETTAM eht si tahW'nihtun-o-tol elohw a
.tneps sraey a ni sselnu s'yad rehtona ,tnemal ni kcab kool elpoep dettesdeb ,moor yreve morf edaf sthgil hctaw ,moolg gnirehtag eht ,peed htaerB :ecaps siht llif ot siht htiw esolc lliw I os ,yas ot gnitseretni ngihtyna fo tuo nur evah I .taht ekat ...oS .haeY .sbur kcab gnivig dna yrteop ekil uoy taht noitpircsed a gniretne dna moc.hctam ta pu erutcip ruoy gnitsop ekil esrow neve ebyam ro ,haey ...esrow neve ro ,rebmun enohp ruoy nosrednA alemaP gnivig dna tuort egral a htiw sselesnes uoy gnitaeb ekil spets ekat ot decrof eb llahs I sdaerht ym gnikcajih ta tsisrep uoy fi ,eromrehtruF
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HT_USMC
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Two words.....tnatropmI s'TAHT ?t'nod nemow tub meht bur uoy nehw ria eht otni pu spih rieht hsup stac yhw dna esrevinu eht fo retnec eht ot teg ot ekat ti seod skcil ynam woh dna ?tsaot fo gninaem eht si tahw :ekil scipot gnitseretni revo etacinummoc nac ew os snoziroh ruo nedaorb dna fo kaeps ew ecaps eht otni tuo teg dna tenretni eht no emit hcum os gnitsaw pots dna efil a teg dluohs lla ew ebyaM !ssengnihton otni tniop elohw eht kcartedis dna selbmar yllis eseht htiw ti trevid otyrt si od nac uoy lla dna cipot gnitseretni dna dilav a thiw pu emoc ot yrt I ? ?elpoep uoy htiw RETTAM eht si tahW'nihtun-o-tol elohw a
.tneps sraey a ni sselnu s'yad rehtona ,tnemal ni kcab kool elpoep dettesdeb ,moor yreve morf edaf sthgil hctaw ,moolg gnirehtag eht ,peed htaerB :ecaps siht llif ot siht htiw esolc lliw I os ,yas ot gnitseretni ngihtyna fo tuo nur evah I .taht ekat ...oS .haeY .sbur kcab gnivig dna yrteop ekil uoy taht noitpircsed a gniretne dna moc.hctam ta pu erutcip ruoy gnitsop ekil esrow neve ebyam ro ,haey ...esrow neve ro ,rebmun enohp ruoy nosrednA alemaP gnivig dna tuort egral a htiw sselesnes uoy gnitaeb ekil spets ekat ot decrof eb llahs I sdaerht ym gnikcajih ta tsisrep uoy fi ,eromrehtruF
Spell Check!
about a minuteMy head REALLY hurts now
Who long did it take you to type that Greg? It took forever just to read it
!krow ot kcab...!WON
"Knowledge is not knowing or remembering information, it's knowing where to FIND it." - Greg Best
http://www.typebackwards.com/
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