Looking through the corner? But look where?

[Tufbusa]

I remember so well the first track school I attended. During the classroom sessions the instructor says to us "Look through the corner"! After explaining how most new track riders tend to look down rather than up, I ask "Exactly where do I look or focus my eyes when looking through the corner"? The classroom was filled with wide eyed students, as my eyes scanned the room they were all staring at me as if I were a bastid calf in a hail storm. The instructor, after a brief hesitation says "Just keep your eyes up and look through the corner"! GREAT,,,,,,, Just GREAT! I spent the day looking at trees, grass, toads along with everything else in my field of vision.

I was a bit confussed as I was looking for a specific "Something" or "Place" I should be looking. For years after that first day I was confused on exactly where I should be looking and everytime I ask anyone the answer was the same "Look up and through the corner". Yes, but at what point do I move my line of site from the asphalt in front of me to the "Through the corner" spot? It seem to me this mysterious place I should be "Looking through the corner" at was ficticious, on a blade of grass which no one could specifically point out and that no one had ever actually seen up close or touched.

So for some time to come I was destined to fumble my way around corners looking at whatever I thought could possibly be this distant corner spot. It took me a long time to develope what I thought was my best bet to attack the corner properly with my eyes. I may not have the best approach but it works for me and I have learned there are at least some professional riders (Steve Rapp & Colin Edwards) who do the same.

If you find yourself fumbling through the corners looking at the scenery or have prefected the perfect line, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to share?

 

[sixpack577]

What a rip off! I thought you where gonna tell me where to look!
I have always looked just above the center of the road at the furthest point I can see. This always gives me a smooth line(smooth to my untrained mind), but as I'm on the street, I have to catch myself as that line doesn't always stay in my lane Yes, I'm gonna get on the track, I'm trying!
I tend to glance down at the road when I see a possible bump, busted pavement, or debris coming up. Then I'm looking up and ahead again. I can see the road below my line of sight, but I'm not really looking at the pavement, just an idea of which way the road is going at it's furthest point. If that makes sense.
Now, point me in the right direction.

 

[Hectic]

Look where you want to go.

 

[Pardini]

Simple question, complex answer. Simple answer might be looking everywhere, eyes never stop moving, never fix on any one point. Lookup: meaning focusing on where the bike is going to be and/or where you want it to be in the next few seconds rather than watching the pavement disappear under your front wheel.

All depends upon the corner and speed. Generally I pick a series of points to look at going thru a corner (going in). The tighter the corner or the faster I'm going the more points I pick, same for a blind corner. The points I pick to look at are usually on the outside of the turn as I'm going in. Once I pick that spot I force myself not to look at it again, eyes up looking for the next point, the apex/exit. I don't know if picking points on the outside edge of the edge of the turn is text book or not, but I've found that it helps me to delay the apex. Delaying the apex especially in tight lefts keeps me from crowding or crossing the centerline. If that makes sense.

Somewhere I read about the Vanishing Point- which I use a lot. Hard for me to explain, but in a corner the point as far as you can see where the road edge meets the mountain edge or the tree line sky etc. Almost always on the outside of the lane. So in a left I'm looking at the Vanishing Point where the white line disappears around the corner and in a right where the yellow line disappears around the corner. Then again not really because I'm always making a conscious effort to keep my eyes moving looking everywhere and nowhere at the same time. The big picture.

Exiting I'm looking as far up the road as I can see to gather as much map info as I can, then instantly start picking points again. Always learning, but so far that's helped immensely in making fewer steering inputs and throttle adjustments mid corner-smoother.

Critique me, I'm no expert.

 

[jellyrug]

If you go as fast as you possibly can, YOU HAVE TO look through the corner, starting at your turn in point as you approach, then the apex and then your exit point. Should Sandra Bullock be sitting on a chair with a bikini outside your perfect line, if you are a man, you will definetely crash, no question about it.

 

[dadofthree]

Simple question, complex answer. Simple answer might be looking everywhere, eyes never stop moving, never fix on any one point. Lookup: meaning focusing on where the bike is going to be and/or where you want it to be in the next few seconds rather than watching the pavement disappear under your front wheel.

All depends upon the corner and speed. Generally I pick a series of points to look at going thru a corner (going in). The tighter the corner or the faster I'm going the more points I pick, same for a blind corner. The points I pick to look at are usually on the outside of the turn as I'm going in. Once I pick that spot I force myself not to look at it again, eyes up looking for the next point, the apex/exit. I don't know if picking points on the outside edge of the edge of the turn is text book or not, but I've found that it helps me to delay the apex. Delaying the apex especially in tight lefts keeps me from crowding or crossing the centerline. If that makes sense.

Somewhere I read about the Vanishing Point- which I use a lot. Hard for me to explain, but in a corner the point as far as you can see where the road edge meets the mountain edge or the tree line sky etc. Almost always on the outside of the lane. So in a left I'm looking at the Vanishing Point where the white line disappears around the corner and in a right where the yellow line disappears around the corner. Then again not really because I'm always making a conscious effort to keep my eyes moving looking everywhere and nowhere at the same time. The big picture.

Exiting I'm looking as far up the road as I can see to gather as much map info as I can, then instantly start picking points again. Always learning, but so far that's helped immensely in making fewer steering inputs and throttle adjustments mid corner-smoother.

Critique me, I'm no expert.

Keeping your eyes moving is proven science. It stops tunnel or the narrowing of your vision. Good write. Blind corners suck.

 

[IG.]

A great topic!

I had a revelation this Saturday at the track, and I think I got it.

A short answer is this: "Seeing the line".

Colin talks about it but not in a direct way in this video:

- ‪MotoGP Riding Secrets - Unveiling the techniques of the best riders in the world‬‏[/url]

You gotta see the line - simply an imaginary line you intend to take through the turn, the line which goes beyond what your eyes can see. Once you see the line, you know where to start braking, where to finish braking, where to turn in, etc. And, if you mess up earlier (i.e. deviate from the line you visualized), you know it way ahead of time, and as a result have enough time to compensate for the mistake.

This approach becomes even more obvious when going through any kind of blind turns - where you feel you are always late because you don't see a damn turn. For example, those who know T5 at Thunderbolt in NJMP would appreciate this approach. This is a blind right hander with the apex right past the crest of the hill, and not apexing correctly sends a rider straight for the sand trap. This turn regularly claims a painful catch.

If you see the line, and adjust all your inputs to simply follow the line, riding becomes effortless, like someone else is controlling the bike and you are just sitting there enjoying the ride - great feeling.

So, looking ahead simply becomes "seeing and observing your line".

 

[Easy E]

A great topic!

I had a revelation this Saturday at the track, and I think I got it.

A short answer is this: "Seeing the line".

Colin talks about it but not in a direct way in this video:

- ‪MotoGP Riding Secrets - Unveiling the techniques of the best riders in the world‬‏[/url]

You gotta see the line - simply an imaginary line you intend to take through the turn, the line which goes beyond what your eyes can see. Once you see the line, you know where to start braking, where to finish braking, where to turn in, etc. And, if you mess up earlier (i.e. deviate from the line you visualized), you know it way ahead of time, and as a result have enough time to compensate for the mistake.

This approach becomes even more obvious when going through any kind of blind turns - where you feel you are always late because you don't see a damn turn. For example, those who know T5 at Thunderbolt in NJMP would appreciate this approach. This is a blind right hander with the apex right past the crest of the hill, and not apexing correctly sends a rider straight for the sand trap. This turn regularly claims a painful catch.

If you see the line, and adjust all your inputs to simply follow the line, riding becomes effortless, like someone else is controlling the bike and you are just sitting there enjoying the ride - great feeling.

So, looking ahead simply becomes "seeing and observing your line".

Remember the rulez I need a pic!! no really can anyone draw this scenario?

Thanks
E

 

[IG.]

I stopped caring about pictures, and don't buy them any more.

Not sure about "scenario" question. What do you mean?

 

[Easy E]

I stopped caring about pictures, and don't buy them any more.

Not sure about "scenario" question. What do you mean?

never mind thanks anyway
E

 

[motochris]

A great topic!

I had a revelation this Saturday at the track, and I think I got it.

A short answer is this: "Seeing the line".

Colin talks about it but not in a direct way in this video:

- ‪MotoGP Riding Secrets - Unveiling the techniques of the best riders in the world‬‏[/url]

You gotta see the line - simply an imaginary line you intend to take through the turn, the line which goes beyond what your eyes can see. Once you see the line, you know where to start braking, where to finish braking, where to turn in, etc. And, if you mess up earlier (i.e. deviate from the line you visualized), you know it way ahead of time, and as a result have enough time to compensate for the mistake.

This approach becomes even more obvious when going through any kind of blind turns - where you feel you are always late because you don't see a damn turn. For example, those who know T5 at Thunderbolt in NJMP would appreciate this approach. This is a blind right hander with the apex right past the crest of the hill, and not apexing correctly sends a rider straight for the sand trap. This turn regularly claims a painful catch.

If you see the line, and adjust all your inputs to simply follow the line, riding becomes effortless, like someone else is controlling the bike and you are just sitting there enjoying the ride - great feeling.

So, looking ahead simply becomes "seeing and observing your line".

I call this being ONE with the BIKE! Your last paragraph is exactly what I would have written. It is a great feeling.
If at anytime you feel uncomfortable or like you are fighting the bike into the turns, more than likely you are riding beyond your limits. Trust in your moto do to what it is designed to do. This trust is built over time, just like any relationship.
Looking through the corner just becomes moving the bike anywhere you want if needed while RIDING through that corner. Everyone is accomplished at riding in corners...but to what DEGREE...

 

[Tufbusa]

I stopped caring about pictures, and don't buy them any more.

Not sure about "scenario" question. What do you mean?

never mind thanks anyway
E

I didn't really understand that scenario either?

I think what E was asking was to draw out your line and place point on it?

 

[motochris]

-----___----___-____---------_____-_--_-_-_----does this help? sorry I couldnt resist

 

[Tufbusa]

-----___----___-____---------_____-_--_-_-_----does this help? sorry I couldnt resist

That's a Chinese line man! Comes on the sidewall of all Shinko tires as well as inside fortune cookies!

 

[motochris]

That's a Chinese line man! Comes on the sidewall of all Shinko tires as well as inside fortune cookies!

 

[doniton2]

very good read. it's been 17+ years since I've been on a track but when on a track the focus on the furthest point of where you want the bike to be going into, through, and out of a corner should have most of your attention. the break points and acceleration point should have just slightly less or maybe even the same attention getting to and getting out of a corner. with your peripheral just noting the other riders and determining if you need to alter your normal line.

now on the street you can't be as focused on the line because you need to watch for all the other variables as much as you need to watch your line.

it looks like I'm getting back on the track in Aug. at Heartland Park and I can't wait for that feeling again.

 

[IG.]

I didn't really understand that scenario either?

I think what E was asking was to draw out your line and place point on it?

You can't draw a line. It's how you see it from the bike. That's exactly what Colin says in an interview while standing by the track: "If you ask me now, I have no idea where it should be. But when I am on the bike, I just see where the bike should be within 6 inches.." - something along those lines.

Bottom line is this. A rider who tries to see the line and tries to act based on it - has a plan. A plan can be followed. A plan can be corrected. It doesn't have to be perfect right away, but as rider goes over the same turn a number of times, such planned ideal line can be figured out. And once you hit it right, with only one steering input and gradually rolling the throttle through the turn - then there is nothing else to do. Your mind and body are free to simply enjoy whatever number of seconds the turn lasts - enjoy the scenery, just relax, listen to the bike, whatever...

Keith Code also talks a lot about it, but he focuses more on reference points - which are secondary to the choice of line. You choose the line first, and that determines start/end of braking, quickness of turn in, throttle application, etc.

You literally imagine a line drawn on the pavement, and try to send the bike over this line with the minimum of inputs - one braking action, one steering input action, and one acceleration action. That's it. That's the secret.

 

[UncleSteve]

Try walking the track and look at everything before you start ripping it up. Old guys ride a pitt bike around the track.

 

[Pardini]

I didn't really understand that scenario either?

I think what E was asking was to draw out your line and place point on it?

Maybe a Picture of Ms. Bullock?

 

[Tufbusa]

You can't draw a line. It's how you see it from the bike. That's exactly what Colin says in an interview while standing by the track: "If you ask me now, I have no idea where it should be. But when I am on the bike, I just see where the bike should be within 6 inches.." - something along those lines.

Bottom line is this. A rider who tries to see the line and tries to act based on it - has a plan. A plan can be followed. A plan can be corrected. It doesn't have to be perfect right away, but as rider goes over the same turn a number of times, such planned ideal line can be figured out. And once you hit it right, with only one steering input and gradually rolling the throttle through the turn - then there is nothing else to do. Your mind and body are free to simply enjoy whatever number of seconds the turn lasts - enjoy the scenery, just relax, listen to the bike, whatever...

Keith Code also talks a lot about it, but he focuses more on reference points - which are secondary to the choice of line. You choose the line first, and that determines start/end of braking, quickness of turn in, throttle application, etc.

You literally imagine a line drawn on the pavement, and try to send the bike over this line with the minimum of inputs - one braking action, one steering input action, and one acceleration action. That's it. That's the secret.

I personally don't use imagination while cornering but you may be onto a better mouse trap?

I always tell guys if they find themselves enjoying the scenery it's time to take a break and get re-focused because a crash is likely to be the next scene.

I'm never relaxed in a corner unless I'm touring. My core is taunt, my outside leg it gripping the tank holding my arse in position and my inside calf is as tight as a knat's a$$ stretched over a 55 gallon drum. If I hit ten laps hard my skivies are so wet you can wring them out. I use the straights to rest. I guess I haven't figured out how to relax in the corners and watch the tweety birds mate.