Looking through the corner? But look where?
- Thread starter Tufbusa
- Start date
Great topic!!
This discussion always brings Lamb to think about how humans "see". Do we as humans see like a camera sees? Do we see like a movie? Do we have to focus on one thing at a time? Vision for us is very narrow, although peripherally, one can pick up movement just fine, pure vision is narrow and focused. With that in mind, looking ahead becomes a never ending journey of picking a point you wanna go based on where you are in this moment and then looking for the next spot or line or nuance of road. Always computing the next moments based on what place in space you are currently using. Looking ahead to the horizon or just in front of the tire both have their place and both become necessary when searching for spots...the endless search for spots or lines or reference points etc...
Lamb loves this topic! just a quick lil ditty for now!!
This discussion always brings Lamb to think about how humans "see". Do we as humans see like a camera sees? Do we see like a movie? Do we have to focus on one thing at a time? Vision for us is very narrow, although peripherally, one can pick up movement just fine, pure vision is narrow and focused. With that in mind, looking ahead becomes a never ending journey of picking a point you wanna go based on where you are in this moment and then looking for the next spot or line or nuance of road. Always computing the next moments based on what place in space you are currently using. Looking ahead to the horizon or just in front of the tire both have their place and both become necessary when searching for spots...the endless search for spots or lines or reference points etc...
Lamb loves this topic! just a quick lil ditty for now!!
Well said, I like that take on things.
All while being held by gravity to a spinning planet, orbiting the sun in a universe moving through time and space.
Ahhh this is why I love Florida. I only have to deal with straight lines 
Ahhh this is why I love Florida. I only have to deal with straight lines
You need Harley.
Then go tame that Gecko. 
Our track days they draw the line for you. It starts with a green cone on the side of the track where your turn-in starts, then an orange cone in the apex side of the track and then another orange cone at the exit side of your turn. Looking through the corner is easy, you just draw a visual line through the turn following the cones as your reference points.
We were told a Moto GP racer who is pacing in the front, rides a 6" wide line around the track every lap the same. The one who follows, follows the same line and only deviates from it when he is trying to pass.
In short the way you look through a turn is drawing the straightest or shortest line you can with your eyes and following that line.
We were told a Moto GP racer who is pacing in the front, rides a 6" wide line around the track every lap the same. The one who follows, follows the same line and only deviates from it when he is trying to pass.
In short the way you look through a turn is drawing the straightest or shortest line you can with your eyes and following that line.
since i first read this topic yesterday i've been paying more attention to how i make curves and i think i got it: i use the reference points on my line to get around a curve smoothly. i'll take it for granted that we can all 'see' our line. my reference point is generally 25-30 yards in front of where i am at any given moment, and constantly changes (duh- i'm moving). going into a turn (we'll say a lefty), i'm usually on the outside right close to the shoulder, as i go thru the turn i get closest to the center of the road when i am at the middle of the turn and kinda drift back towards the right shoulder as i come out and accelerate. this line kinda 'straitens out' the curve and allows for more speed thru it...
is that right?? do i get a gold star??
is that right?? do i get a gold star??
Why do we look ahead,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, to slow things down. Looking ahead slows the information your eyes are transmitting to the brain, giving the brain more time to process making speed less intimidating. And yes, bikes do tend to go where you look!
Riders get into trouble when their bikes go fast but their eyes don't keep up! Proper use of the eyes will reduce single bike crashes by a considerable margin.
This is how I use my eyes through the corner. As I approach the brake marker my eyes are focused ahead with my peripheral vision searching for the apex. As I apply the brakes I move my eyes to the apex with my peripheral vision remaining aware of what's in front of me. As the bike turns the corner I'm locked onto the apex and as soon as the steering is complete I raise my eyes to look ahead at the far outside edge of the track where I've placed an exit point. The exit point doesn't mean I'm going to that point but it does give me a spot to aim the bike once I pass the apex. Once I'm past the apex and headed toward the exit point I shift my eyes up the track to focus on the next brake marker and point the bike directly towards it.
The trick is to keep the eyes moving well ahead of the bike. The eyes are the main source of information to the brain. Use them properly by staying well ahead of the bike and you'll have far fewer of those oh****z moments.
Getting around the track is a game of "Connect the dots". If you approach it with connecting the dots in mind you'll advance much faster than trying to identify some imaginary line.
As Jellyrug mentioned, the cones some trackday providers use to mark braking, tip in, apex and exit points are a real asset when learning how to connect the dots. They are there for a reason, use them if they are available.
The eyes determine where you start the braking,,,,,,,,,,,, where, when and the amount of throttle you apply. A clean clear wind screen and good vision are both positive assets in gettng around quickly and safely.
Street riding should be approached differently with less speed and more safety minded but the basics are the same.
Riders get into trouble when their bikes go fast but their eyes don't keep up! Proper use of the eyes will reduce single bike crashes by a considerable margin.
This is how I use my eyes through the corner. As I approach the brake marker my eyes are focused ahead with my peripheral vision searching for the apex. As I apply the brakes I move my eyes to the apex with my peripheral vision remaining aware of what's in front of me. As the bike turns the corner I'm locked onto the apex and as soon as the steering is complete I raise my eyes to look ahead at the far outside edge of the track where I've placed an exit point. The exit point doesn't mean I'm going to that point but it does give me a spot to aim the bike once I pass the apex. Once I'm past the apex and headed toward the exit point I shift my eyes up the track to focus on the next brake marker and point the bike directly towards it.
The trick is to keep the eyes moving well ahead of the bike. The eyes are the main source of information to the brain. Use them properly by staying well ahead of the bike and you'll have far fewer of those oh****z moments.
Getting around the track is a game of "Connect the dots". If you approach it with connecting the dots in mind you'll advance much faster than trying to identify some imaginary line.
As Jellyrug mentioned, the cones some trackday providers use to mark braking, tip in, apex and exit points are a real asset when learning how to connect the dots. They are there for a reason, use them if they are available.
The eyes determine where you start the braking,,,,,,,,,,,, where, when and the amount of throttle you apply. A clean clear wind screen and good vision are both positive assets in gettng around quickly and safely.
Street riding should be approached differently with less speed and more safety minded but the basics are the same.
Easy E
Registered
LOL That's what i meant!! If she ran the line I would surely follow.
Even if it ran me into a ditch 
Easy E
Registered
Ahhh this is why I love Florida. I only have to deal with straight lines
I second that emotion
Lets talk about this some more this week SteveO...I think I'm gonna have a few opportunities to practice this shortly
You will have more than a "FEW" opportunities.
Try 5 days worth
IG.
Registered
When the dots are connected, it's called a line. And that's the ultimate objective of this exercise regardless of whether a rider realizes it or not.
If the dots (i.e. points of reference) happen to be too far apart, a rider may feel lost because a rider doesn't know which line to follow from one dot to the next one.
I am a firm believer that seeing the line is the goal, and points of reference (dots) absolutely needed for this process.
So I think we are talking about the same thing, but describing it a bit differently. It could be a matter of perception - one person can easier visualize and see dots, while another person strives to see the line.
Regardless of which way it works, when this process is mastered even partially, a rider is getting to a different level of riding - precise, sharp, effortless, and very enjoyable. Not to mention that for some reason the bike goes a lot faster.
MelodicMetalGod
Registered
Absolutely. My first track day, at VIR, I had NO idea that the course went under a bridge until I saw pictures. My focus was always on the track, not the grass just off the track, not the treeline past the curve, not the gazebo's where the flag personnel hung out (if they flags were moving, I'd pick them up). Basically, anything in my peripheral was "ignored" unless it represented something related to me getting around the track.
As for where do you "look through a turn"?
General: Eyes UP and scanning. Never really focus on a particular "spot". Sort of a "home base" for my scan is probably 5 - 7 seconds ahead and ranging as close as 2 seconds (rarely) and as far as the road is visible. Aware of peripheral, only scanning to side to side if peripheral detects somethign relevant (animal, moving debris, etc...doesn't happen on a track much).
On a long straigt or in a turn: Scan runs to next corner and back (closer to me/bike).
Upon approaching a turn, scan runs up to about 90º through the turn and tends to stay as far through the turn as visibility allows, using periphery to be aware of any issues closer in.
One way to think of it would to picture an flashlight (or headlight) beam (or "cone", perhaps?) as opposed to a laser beam (a laser focus would be fart too specific and focused and would not allow for the perception of multiple data at simultaneously). The flashlight has a broad focus, more or less in the center of the road at a fair distance ahead but also illuminates the distance up to that focal point, along with periphery to some degree. As you move through distance and your position changes, so too moves the "cone" of the flashlight or your scan.
IG.
Registered
Not sure I understand. I don't have eyes behind me, but whatever works for you... and whatever works for me...
Interesting posts.
Our coach called looking through a turn, "Target Fixation" meaning your bike goes exactly where you look. Later during the day we had an excellent example of this, look the rider with the GoPro, following the crash rider he is looking at. You have to look at this video a few times, but if he kept his line and looked through the turn he would have been clear and through. Incidentally, I did exactly the same thing 2nd last lap of the day, could not get around two crashed bikes in front of me and crashed. The rider behind me did the same thing also, so four of us went down. If I kept my eyes on the line I had to take through the curve, I would have been through.
Major broken ego here, tore ligaments in my foot and my little Gixxer is a bit beat up.
So, remember to always look through the turn.
Incidentally, the guy who crashed in the video was Hector and the one with the Gopro was Arthur, should you know these folks.
Our coach called looking through a turn, "Target Fixation" meaning your bike goes exactly where you look. Later during the day we had an excellent example of this, look the rider with the GoPro, following the crash rider he is looking at. You have to look at this video a few times, but if he kept his line and looked through the turn he would have been clear and through. Incidentally, I did exactly the same thing 2nd last lap of the day, could not get around two crashed bikes in front of me and crashed. The rider behind me did the same thing also, so four of us went down. If I kept my eyes on the line I had to take through the curve, I would have been through.
Major broken ego here, tore ligaments in my foot and my little Gixxer is a bit beat up.
So, remember to always look through the turn.
Incidentally, the guy who crashed in the video was Hector and the one with the Gopro was Arthur, should you know these folks.
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