Loud bikes are killing off motorcycles in the US

[MelodicMetalGod]

Busa riders aren't statistics geniuses... Of course you can test a hypothosis of something
not happening. One suitably large group of riders with loud pipes and one group without loud pipes... If the hypothosis that loud pipes saves lives is true, the group with loud pipes over time should be expiriencing less fatalities/accidents - all other things being equal. I would bet there are insurance companies who already track this data... They probably already have actuary tables with these stats...

If Loud pipes save even one life - the relavant question here is how much general sound annoyance is one life worth?

Apparently, neither are you, since you're making such a generalization based on such a small sampling.

Of course it can be tested but it's unlikely to be done on a scale large enough or in any semblence of a true scientific method. For the test to be valid you would have to have a pretty large sample of loud/non-loud bikes that were otherwise identical and ridden by the same riders in the same way on the same routes amongst the same traffic. As far as I can tell there's just way too many variables to account for to draw any "proven" conclusions.

As for your relevant question, "how much general sound annoyance is one life worth?", well, obviously you'd like to say that even just one life is worth an "annoyance". The problem is that you can save the same life with a horn or by not riding not riding at all and those options don't bother the public at large, many of whom would prefer the latter option to begin with.

 

[DLSGAP]

It could be that stock pipes are ugly, over weight, and sound like crap.

most of them don't sound that bad...

overweight... many modern sport bikes use alot of titanium in their exhausts


ugly... that's a matter of opinion. some aftermarket ones are pretty fugly too

i go back to the education of the rider... many riders install after market exhausts to be faster... well that's like having a drunk driver behind the wheel of a Volvo... sure the care itself is safe, but f the driver is a douche than i won't want to get in the passenger seat. bikes are the same way. the minimal performance increase gained from an aftermarket exhaust isn't going to make a notable difference for a riders lap times if they still can't ride...

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

MelodicMetalGod I think your name is getting to you. I think some squid with loud pipes made you mad and now your on here stiring up trouble. You sound the "The MAN" wanting to regulate Noise db depending on area. Cmon use your head, by doing that YOU will kill motorcycling. I run a Yosh TI header and thats it. Ask MR.Bogus its LOUD, If you get on it. I do no harm driving in town with my exhaust that way, But i also dont rev it and stay on the throttle either, i cant hear my bike if i'm riding next to a harley so it cant be that loud. I just ride like a sain person. Like previously stated this thread isnt about loud pipes, its about lack of respect among each other. Also to say that us 1% with loud pipes is affecting the other 99% is wrong. Remember you put on an aftermarket exhaust wich is louder than stock and it might make someone else mad as well. So unless you have a stock exhaust system, You have no room to complain yourself. Thats all i have to say, so flame away and dissect as you will and do what you want with it.

Easy now. No need for hostility. As much as you seem to think so, this thread is not about me or my agenda. The subject matter was brought to my attention, yet again, with the latest round of motorcycle only anti-noise legislation, this time in Boston. This wasn't brought on by my personal experiences and it's not a personal agenda of mine to try to get all motorcycles to run stealth exhausts. That's not to say that I don't prefer quieter exhausts in general, I do. But I'm not personally opposed to aftermarket exhausts on bikes in the hands of folks that are respectful and considerate of those around them.

The fact of the matter, as far as I can tell, is that the population in general is generally unhappy enough with motorcycles and the louder they are the more those folks are aligned against us. This is evidenced by the fact that noise laws aimed solely at bikes are popping up all over the country. In addition, there are communities in which bikes have been outlawed 100% - as in if you have a bike you have to leave it outside of the community, period. This kind of legislation and community attitude seems to be growing quickly over the last few years and it concerns me quite a bit that our freedom is jeopardized over something so simple. Motorcycles have always been a target (186 mph ring a bell?) for law makers and if we don't stop stepping on the toes of folks around us, eventually they'll take away the choice and simply tell us what we can and can't do. It's happening piece meal right now. My goal is for it to not get any farther than it already has so that we can all continue to enjoy the ride, wherever the ride takes us and not just on the track.

To address the issue it's important that we all are aware of it, understand it and then take action to effect change that we all want. And I think we all want to avoid having laws that tell us we can't ride anything without a stock exhaust or that we can't ride in Denver or Myrtle Beach or Daytona or, heaven forbid, at all!

Things will change, it's up to us to guide how the change occurs.

PS: I do run the stock exhaust!

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

most of them don't sound that bad...

overweight... many modern sport bikes use alot of titanium in their exhausts


ugly... that's a matter of opinion. some aftermarket ones are pretty fugly too

i go back to the education of the rider... many riders install after market exhausts to be faster... well that's like having a drunk driver behind the wheel of a Volvo... sure the care itself is safe, but f the driver is a douche than i won't want to get in the passenger seat. bikes are the same way. the minimal performance increase gained from an aftermarket exhaust isn't going to make a notable difference for a riders lap times if they still can't ride...

That's a fact!

 

[oldschool]

You've got a close bracket out of place.

As for whether someone can take advantage of the performance benefits of an aftermarket exhaust.......why does that matter? Can your typical hollywood moviestar type eek every 1/100th out of the Ferrari or Lamborghini they own? Or do they just putt putt down the street and say look at me?

 

[Rayabusa0818]

Some of us that ride motorcycles have a little outlaw blood running through our veins (not me of course )

 

[dmrowe]

OMG there's like 20 peeps in this thread right now! Scary...worse than a Harley vs Busa thread....
oh wait..it is a harley vs Busa thread...


Beat this horse to death guys and gals..i'll pass

I'm with you brother!

 

[GoAWOL]

I'm really having a difficult time responding seriously to this thread but here it goes....

It's an exercise in futility to discuss it here folks...the decisions are being made every day by the inconsiderate morons who run straight pipes, stunt/race with no consideration for others and the law makers who are slowly but surely legislating motorcycling, well, to death because of them. You can scream ride hard and die free all you want...the only thing you're doing is creating laws for the other motorcycle rider.

 

[notright]

Funny no one has mentioned deer. I am not interested in how loud is too loud or whos rights are more important. After all we all know without self control there is no self government. Given ,someone blasting death metal and texting may not notice the rumbling to the left when they cut across six lanes to make their exit .But,how many did. No way of knowing. Deer on the other hand do unpredictable things when spooked. You don't want to sneek up on them. In a flat straight world the HID would help you see them first. But over a hill and around a corner it just blinds them worse. My stock cans seemed to be deer magnets. Since converting to aftermarket not one encounter. I was not able to interview the deer that ran infront of me nor the deer that did not. So to some I still have no proof . So maybe loud pipes save lives sounds arrogant boisterous and puts to mind the type that many are talking about. But ,it's good to be heard .

 

[dragonbusa]

wv rider. theres no stats because no one keeps track of what didn't happen! they only keep stats on the people that get run over dumb a$$ ! not the one's that didn't! roll up beside some on the dam cell with your wussy pipes and wait tell they run you over. not me, I roll up and they look over! there's your dam proof! wake up before some one kills you or one of your friends

 

[Pardini]

And I think we all want to avoid having laws that tell us we can't ride anything without a stock exhaust or that we can't ride in Denver or Myrtle Beach or Daytona or, heaven forbid, at all!

We already have these laws and have had them for many years.

 

[brpo]

Apparently, neither are you, since you're making such a generalization based on such a small sampling.

Of course it can be tested but it's unlikely to be done on a scale large enough or in any semblence of a true scientific method. For the test to be valid you would have to have a pretty large sample of loud/non-loud bikes that were otherwise identical and ridden by the same riders in the same way on the same routes amongst the same traffic. As far as I can tell there's just way too many variables to account for to draw any "proven" conclusions.

As for your relevant question, "how much general sound annoyance is one life worth?", well, obviously you'd like to say that even just one life is worth an "annoyance". The problem is that you can save the same life with a horn or by not riding not riding at all and those options don't bother the public at large, many of whom would prefer the latter option to begin with.

Do you understand the meaning of "suitable large" and "all other things being equal"? Basic reading comprehension...

And don't make any assumption about what side of this issue I'm on -- Because I did not state my position - only a question that is at the heart of this discussion - if loud pipes save even a few lives per year is it worth the public nuisance? I didn't give my opinion on the question.


Thanks for comments

Signed,
BRPO, Genius

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

Do you understand the meaning of "suitable large" and "all other things being equal"? Basic reading comprehension...

And don't make any assumption about what side of this issue I'm on -- Because I did not state my position - only a question that is at the heart of this discussion - if loud pipes save even a few lives per year is it worth the public nuisance? I didn't give my opinion on the question.


Thanks for comments

Signed,
BRPO, Genius

Ya know, I'm still surprised at the animosity that folks are ready to post up. I'm not looking for a fight. The basic idea that I've presented in this thread is a) loud bikes are aligning the public agains us and b) that public is creating more laws against us as a result. That's not my opinion, that's what's happening. My suggestion is that we should "self regulate" before we are regulated by others. For this, folks are comin' in swingin'...?

How's my reading comprehension...? Fine. However, we're posting in a public forum on the internet. Seems that most of us make mistakes here and there in spelling, grammar, punctuation and even being clear in our presentation expression of thoughts. For my part in this, I apologize.

I didn't make any assumption about "your side". What I did was use a form of the pronoun "you" in reference to what I would consider to be an average person. I was not intending to say that you, brpo, had the opinion that saving even one life was worth a bit of annoyance and I apologize for possibly misleading others.

If you'd like to discuss things further, please do so with civility. That's the intent of the thread. This slingin' insults stuff is useless and just divides us on an issue that should unite us.

Peace to all. We all ride and we all wanna keep riding. That's the point here.

 

[BusaWhipped]

wv rider. theres no stats because no one keeps track of what didn't happen! they only keep stats on the people that get run over dumb a$$ ! not the one's that didn't! roll up beside some on the dam cell with your wussy pipes and wait tell they run you over. not me, I roll up and they look over! there's your dam proof! wake up before some one kills you or one of your friends

1) There is no reason to be calling anyone names. I think you need to apologize to wv rider.

2) If you have stats on the people who get run over, and you identify how many have quite pipes and how many have loud pipes, you will have emperical data to formulate a statistically meaningful result. If you can prove that a significantly higher percentage of crash victims who were hit by cars have quiet pipes, you do not need to know what didn't happen to conclude that loud pipes save lives. However, I do not believe that anyone is recording what type of pipes crash victims were using at the time.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

1) There is no reason to be calling anyone names. I think you need to apologize to wv rider.

2) If you have stats on the people who get run over, and you identify how many have quite pipes and how many have loud pipes, you will have emperical data to formulate a statistically meaningful result. If you can prove that a significantly higher percentage of crash victims who were hit by cars have quiet pipes, you do not need to know what didn't happen to conclude that loud pipes save lives. However, I do not believe that anyone is recording what type of pipes crash victims were using at the time.

+1

 

[brpo]

Ya know, I'm still surprised at the animosity that folks are ready to post up. I'm not looking for a fight. The basic idea that I've presented in this thread is a) loud bikes are aligning the public agains us and b) that public is creating more laws against us as a result. That's not my opinion, that's what's happening. My suggestion is that we should "self regulate" before we are regulated by others. For this, folks are comin' in swingin'...?

How's my reading comprehension...? Fine. However, we're posting in a public forum on the internet. Seems that most of us make mistakes here and there in spelling, grammar, punctuation and even being clear in our presentation expression of thoughts. For my part in this, I apologize.

I didn't make any assumption about "your side". What I did was use a form of the pronoun "you" in reference to what I would consider to be an average person. I was not intending to say that you, brpo, had the opinion that saving even one life was worth a bit of annoyance and I apologize for possibly misleading others.

If you'd like to discuss things further, please do so with civility. That's the intent of the thread. This slingin' insults stuff is useless and just divides us on an issue that should unite us.

Peace to all. We all ride and we all wanna keep riding. That's the point here.

You started by making specious comments on my statement that indeed one could ascertian empirically whether loud pipes save lives. I made no derogatory remarks on your views, feelings, beliefs or spelling, grammar or punctuation... I specifically pointed out, that a sample would have to be large and that they would have to have like constituent participants to ascertain any level of confidence in an outcome. You proceded to tell me "you're making such a generalization based on such a small sampling". I never made any such comment or generalization. If you feel the need to comment on my post please don't completely misquote or mischaracterize my thoughts... Hence my comment (parapharsed) did you read or understand what I just said!

This is the internet and if you call into question someones understanding of quantitative methods - you may well expect to be called out!

I bare no animosity to anyone on this blog and have never proactively engaged any individual with negative intentions.

Nuff said... Have a great day!

And for the record I believe that really loud pipes and really loud noise of any kind is a nuisance and should be controlled; However if it is proven empirically that loud pipes save a significant amount of lives and injury - then I would allow for pipes with cut-outs... Like boats that can turn exhust silencers on and off at will. But I see more and more no engine braking signs in this area and I do believe we will be driving Harleys that sound like vespa's before to long if we don't accomodate the majority of non-motorcycle riders... Also, they will likely come up with some stupid scheme to inspect exhust emmisions in conjucntion with any new noise ordinances. So the folks out there who say F - you I ride my bike any way I like will be the first affected by the new laws and the first to be ticketed and fined... All my bikes have stock exhust so in reality I have no dog in this fight! I just do not like being told what to do by the government. I hate "helmet laws" but wouldn't ride with out one...

 

[dragonbusa]

this all sounds like the same bull $hit coming out of D.C. I will never apologize for speaking truth. If you dont like go have cup of coffee with nancy palosi. you seem to be spuwing from the same bag of crap. your logic is the same crap that now has our nation $11,000,000,000,000 in the hole. I say to you the same thing i said to wv ride. bite me!

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

You started by making specious comments on my statement that indeed one could ascertian empirically whether loud pipes save lives. I made no derogatory remarks on your views, feelings, beliefs or spelling, grammar or punctuation... I specifically pointed out, that a sample would have to be large and that they would have to have like constituent participants to ascertain any level of confidence in an outcome. You proceded to tell me "you're making such a generalization based on such a small sampling". I never made any such comment or generalization. If you feel the need to comment on my post please don't completely misquote or mischaracterize my thoughts... Hence my comment (parapharsed) did you read or understand what I just said!

FYI: My comment of you making a generalization was tongue in cheek. I attempted to indicate this with the "wink" emoticon at the end of the comment. I was simply trying to open with a bit of humor.

This is the internet and if you call into question someones understanding of quantitative methods - you may well expect to be called out!

Absolutely. It's just that I wasn't trying to call your undestanding into question. Just the logistical issues associated with implementing the methods.

I bare no animosity to anyone on this blog and have never proactively engaged any individual with negative intentions.

Nuff said... Have a great day!

Right on. Hope your having a good day as well!

And for the record I believe that really loud pipes and really loud noise of any kind is a nuisance and should be controlled; However if it is proven empirically that loud pipes save a significant amount of lives and injury - then I would allow for pipes with cut-outs... Like boats that can turn exhust silencers on and off at will. But I see more and more no engine braking signs in this area and I do believe we will be driving Harleys that sound like vespa's before to long if we don't accomodate the majority of non-motorcycle riders... Also, they will likely come up with some stupid scheme to inspect exhust emmisions in conjucntion with any new noise ordinances. So the folks out there who say F - you I ride my bike any way I like will be the first affected by the new laws and the first to be ticketed and fined... All my bikes have stock exhust so in reality I have no dog in this fight! I just do not like being told what to do by the government. I hate "helmet laws" but wouldn't ride with out one...

Sounds like we're on the same page on the issue at hand. Hopefully enough of us will understand the issue and it's negative potential before the lawmakers get more involved.

 

[MelodicMetalGod]

this all sounds like the same bull $hit coming out of D.C. I will never apologize for speaking truth. If you dont like go have cup of coffee with nancy palosi. you seem to be spuwing from the same bag of crap. your logic is the same crap that now has our nation $11,000,000,000,000 in the hole. I say to you the same thing i said to wv ride. bite me!

Exactly what does this post accomplish?

 

[BusaWhipped]

Exactly what does this post accomplish?

I think it's rather humerous being that I'm a conservative republican that just happens to have a minor in Mathematics from George Mason University. Collecting and analysing data seems to not be as conclusive as getting a look while driving down the highway.