No Re-mapping needed for 08 Busa???
- Thread starter nasty nate
- Start date
MetalDisorder
Registered
+1 LOL
Your comment on the other thread was about as back handed as they get was it slander probaly not and I apoligize for that comment. All though it was insinuating of alteror motives. I'm sure all the tuners on here are capable of properly tuning a bike. Does the R-77 really need it, not really. That being said could you get a little benefit from it probaly is it worth $275 probaly not. Now with other exhausts your going to get different results (ex. Ti-Force, Brocks) will all exhausts need a PCIII no will some of them yes. So instead of everybody bashing everybody else. Let's see the facts and get the proper info out there. So everybody can make informed decisions on their purchases. All you tuners out there have to remember not everybody is going to the track. Not everybody has money to just throw away for minimal benefit. That being said all the tuners on here should do their tuning and research and post the info. So everyone on the .org can benefit all the bashing makes everybody look bad.Don't question them JC, they will accuse you of slander...one of these days you will all get your head out of your arse.
just ask any of my customers (stock pipe to aftermarket ) what happens after mapping.
screw HP nubers at WFO.
at 20% throttle the torque and HP gain will blow you away.
Rememeber you ride at 20% not 100%
I am having trouble with my photobucket acct. so it will be a bit till I post pics
See the other thread....
critterdoc
Banned
I believe the correct term is flogging a dead horse!
Either way, I picked up my '08 Busa on Saturday and all I can ask is: Are you blokes SERIOUSLY trying to make this monster more powerful?
Sheesh!
Either way, I picked up my '08 Busa on Saturday and all I can ask is: Are you blokes SERIOUSLY trying to make this monster more powerful?
Sheesh!
This man speaketh truth.I don't know what closed loop cars you dealt with but that is entirely untrue in my experience.See, that's the thing. Only one tuner on here (or anywhere that I can find) has had those results. Everyone else has stated that you need a PCIII for maximum power and drivability. It's the same deal with the closed loop system on cars. It's still not advanced enough and giving the ECU the correct information/readings to adjust the bike to 100%. I've tried to tell people this but they want to get mad when it is pointed out. I'm not going to bother anymore until I have my own results with the Gen-II BUSA "confirming" the same speculation and information I have learned over the years with auto's....seems the no bs bike tuners have prove that the pc111 is not needed and that all I got for my $1000 was that sweet yoshimura sound! sheeeet im glad i didn't get hosed by a know it all "SALESMAN" I mean ahem..tuner..
I had a 03 Cobra which of course was blown... This wasn't your ordinary car, built motor (ported heads, cams, .20 over, etc...), kenne bell @ 25psi, and ever other power mod you can think of...
The o2 sensors which were closed loop made an enormous difference for adjusting fuel according to temperature and altitude changes. Was there tuning done with an after market chip? Hell yes... but it was done to tell the computer to maintain a 11.5-1 a/f instead of the stock setting; and of course to adjust timing (which you cannot do with the ps3usb by itself, you need the ignition module to do that). Some people who had no clue wtf they were doing would just add fuel per rpm range which is the WRONG way to tune a car. When you do that you completely ignore the 02 sensor and the benefits it can bring.
To say the closed loop systems on cars are pointless is a ridiculous statement to make IMHO.
Now back to the 2008 Hayabusa. This isn't the same animal as the Gen I Busa's that did not have a closed loop system. Also, it is worth mentioning that closed loop systems are very new to bikes or at least the hayabusa. I wish there were better tuning alternatives for the busa (something like the SCT chips for cars) that could control many more variables. Someday the those tuning capabilities will be available and when that day comes I can throw my pc3usb and ignition module in the trash.
All the closed-loop systems consult a series of tables which predict how the engine as a system will react given certain variables (octane, atmosphere, etc...), as provided by a series of sensors (MAF, O2 sensors, knock sensors, etc...) and then change parameters (ignition, fuel delivery, throttle position, etc...) to match an ideal - using those sensors to correct themselves in real time.
When you change anything in between the front end (a MAF on an LSx) and the back end (the O2 sensors on an LSx), you have to alter the tables because the system will no longer react the same way and match up with the data in the tables.
Part of the magic in reprogramming the PCM is to let the system do what it wants to do - it wants to correct things that are out of range in accordance with the tables - and will do so. So you tweak the tables to allow it to get into ranges where the PCM can handle it, and then allow the system to do the rest.
NOBODY with any sense uses a Power Commander or a chip on an LSx. They correct and reflash the PCM with a software tool like LS1 Edit on a dyno and then let the PCM handle the rest.
Intercepting sensor information to the ECU to trick it into behaving how you want it to is a Rube Goldberg solution, but the only solution if the PCM/ECU hasn't been cracked.
If the new Busa is to truly reach it's potential - somebody needs to crack the ECU and take advantage of what the ECU can do. At that point, Power Commanders with become as useful as buggy whips.
Dobieman
Registered
Tuneboy
Yeah. It's a bummer all the guys who did the ECU software are in Japan.Tuneboy
Basically (with GM's approval), one of their powertrain controls engineers in the Detroit area spearheaded the aftermarket tuning effort via his personal, nasty-mean, forced induction LS1 and shared the information with the community.
boosta1395
Registered
BILLIT AND THEY WILL COME
Eagle747
Registered
I've been trying to follow this - all getting a bit too technical for me! I did get this info from Dynojet Uk re the PCIII and the closed loop sensor. Maybe it helps?
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The narrow band Lambda sensor fitted to the exhaust will control the fuelling ( making it stoichametric, 14.7 :1 ) within the closed loop area only. This is no different to any other closed loop vehicle. Running a bike at Stoich, however means that it runs extremely lean and produces harshness in the throttle response and can be difficult to ride in the close loop area. There is no way with a narrow band Lambda that the fuelling can be controlled at anything other than Stoich. With a PC and O2 eliminators (which eliminates the Bikes narrow band Lambda) we can remap all the fuel table to an A/F ratio that produces a better running engine, including the closed loop area.
____
The narrow band Lambda sensor fitted to the exhaust will control the fuelling ( making it stoichametric, 14.7 :1 ) within the closed loop area only. This is no different to any other closed loop vehicle. Running a bike at Stoich, however means that it runs extremely lean and produces harshness in the throttle response and can be difficult to ride in the close loop area. There is no way with a narrow band Lambda that the fuelling can be controlled at anything other than Stoich. With a PC and O2 eliminators (which eliminates the Bikes narrow band Lambda) we can remap all the fuel table to an A/F ratio that produces a better running engine, including the closed loop area.
great comments guys. all i can say is mine with full system runs great and no bad idle and no hesitation. the only thing i see different in power is in full throttle in second gear(have not tried other gears yet,)it pulls so hard all the way to redline.
this was not the case with factory exhaust.
save me 300 dollars for pc and mapping. my theory is if it runs great why do you mess with it.
save me 300 dollars for pc and mapping. my theory is if it runs great why do you mess with it.
cause it might run greater?
I also had no problems with running mine without a pc, leaving in the O2 sensor and letting the ECU alone control the af after installing the R-77....it ran fine, no complaints.
But it feels to me it pulls harder and has even better throttle response with the O2 sensor bypassed, the pc3 installed and mapped.
That's just how mine turned out, others may be different...
I also had no problems with running mine without a pc, leaving in the O2 sensor and letting the ECU alone control the af after installing the R-77....it ran fine, no complaints.
But it feels to me it pulls harder and has even better throttle response with the O2 sensor bypassed, the pc3 installed and mapped.
That's just how mine turned out, others may be different...
Properly tuned closed-loop > properly tuned open loop - mostly because "properly tuned open loop" is a misnomer. For many conditions it will be fine, and not much difference will be noted. But at some point (high temp, high humidity, low barometric pressure, etc...), it's going to run into something it can't adjust for.
The controls engineers at auto and motorcycle companies are a world more capable than anyone else in the industry. They chose closed loop operation with O2 sensors because they understand that their vehicles have to operate in a vast range of conditions.
With open loop, you might not find it tomorrow... or the next day... or the next day... but sooner or later you are going to run into a condition where the PCM is not going to like what it is seeing. The default condition then is generally that they go rich and pull timing to prevent detonation.
The controls engineers at auto and motorcycle companies are a world more capable than anyone else in the industry. They chose closed loop operation with O2 sensors because they understand that their vehicles have to operate in a vast range of conditions.
With open loop, you might not find it tomorrow... or the next day... or the next day... but sooner or later you are going to run into a condition where the PCM is not going to like what it is seeing. The default condition then is generally that they go rich and pull timing to prevent detonation.
enjoymentman
Registered
You guys may take my head off for this but all I get from all these comments is that it may be best not to mess too much with the bike. If anything, its cheaper.
Tybalt71
Registered
Im with you, im riding it as is with a new full system
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