No Re-mapping needed for 08 Busa???

[GPW]

I have been reading this topic like crazy on a few sites for months.
With all the dyno numbers and AF info now posted why is it so hard for anyone other than a guy who makes his living tuning and selling PC's to believe that you dont need them for 99% of the GenII's out there.
Myself I am tired of dicking around with settings every time the temp changes or I go up 1000' in altitude.
I have done it with cars and bikes for long enough!
For 2-5 HP and a few thousanths on a drag strip and same on a road track.... I will skip it
Glad Suzuki finally stepped up to modern electronics!!!

Thanks GPW for the best info to date  

Thanks Sir, for some reason this is a very bad topic for some. There is absolutely no ill motivation or conspiracy in my posting. Dynojet sponsors my race team, just providing info not bashing anyone. I will do some heads up performance testing dyno/track versus some systems fully custom mapped shortly.  

 

[GPW]

Click on the mini-sheets below to get them to expand. The top dyno sheet is of the Yoshimura R-77 with just the ECU doing its job and the with a PCIII installed and mapped.

The bottom dyno sheet is of a Brock SMEG (Alien Head) as delivered with a generic map and then remapped. Hope this answers your questions.


<center>
<a href="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/ZX14NETLLC/bef87a2c.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>
<a href="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j264/ZX14NETLLC/1c8ed3a4.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>
</center>

 

[Got-Busa?]

I posted a question in the other thread....

 

[Johnnycheese]

one of these days you will all get your head out of your arse.
just ask any of my customers (stock pipe to aftermarket ) what happens after mapping.
screw HP nubers at WFO.
at 20% throttle the torque and HP gain will blow you away.
Rememeber you ride at 20% not 100%

I am having trouble with my photobucket acct. so it will be a bit till I post pics

 

[Tybalt71]

 

[99'busa]

one of these days you will all get your head out of your arse.
just ask any of my customers (stock pipe to aftermarket ) what happens after mapping.
screw HP nubers at WFO.
at 20% throttle the torque and HP gain will blow you away.
Rememeber you ride at 20% not 100%

I am having trouble with my photobucket acct. so it will be a bit till I post pics

is it just me, or does johnneycheese remind you of simon cowell

. He knows his shiz and is going to tell you what he thinks regardless of how anyone feels

Your left thinking "ya, he's right. not how I would have put it...but he's right"

I just wish I lived closer to him

i would be afraid to ask stupid questions though

Lots of respect for this guy, he only comments when he KNOWS what he's talkin' about.

 

[Got-Busa?]

one of these days you will all get your head out of your arse.
just ask any of my customers (stock pipe to aftermarket ) what happens after mapping.
screw HP nubers at WFO.
at 20% throttle the torque and HP gain will blow you away.
Rememeber you ride at 20% not 100%

I am having trouble with my photobucket acct. so it will be a bit till I post pics

Don't question them JC, they will accuse you of slander...  

See the other thread....

 

[Falconer]

seems the no bs bike tuners have prove that the pc111 is not needed and that all I got for my $1000 was that sweet yoshimura sound! sheeeet im glad i didn't get hosed by a know it all "SALESMAN" I mean ahem..tuner..

 

[99turbobusa]

my 08 made 193.89 with a alien head a pc3 usb pare valve mod and pipercross air filter. without the pc it made 183.97 with af in the high 14s at about 900 feet above sea level. thanks smithers customs

 

[Got-Busa?]

seems the no bs bike tuners have prove that the pc111 is not needed and that all I got for my $1000 was that sweet yoshimura sound! sheeeet im glad i didn't get hosed by a know it all "SALESMAN" I mean ahem..tuner..  

See, that's the thing.  Only one tuner on here (or anywhere that I can find) has had those results.  Everyone else has stated that you need a PCIII for maximum power and drivability.  It's the same deal with the closed loop system on cars.  It's still not advanced enough and giving the ECU the correct information/readings to adjust the bike to 100%.  I've tried to tell people this but they want to get mad when it is pointed out.  I'm not going to bother anymore until I have my own results with the Gen-II BUSA "confirming" the same speculation and information I have learned over the years with auto's....  

 

[Elganja]

seems the no bs bike tuners have prove that the pc111 is not needed and that all I got for my $1000 was that sweet yoshimura sound! sheeeet im glad i didn't get hosed by a know it all "SALESMAN" I mean ahem..tuner..

See, that's the thing. Only one tuner on here (or anywhere that I can find) has had those results. Everyone else has stated that you need a PCIII for maximum power and drivability. It's the same deal with the closed loop system on cars. It's still not advanced enough and giving the ECU the correct information/readings to adjust the bike to 100%. I've tried to tell people this but they want to get mad when it is pointed out. I'm not going to bother anymore until I have my own results with the Gen-II BUSA "confirming" the same speculation and information I have learned over the years with auto's....

I don't know what closed loop cars you dealt with but that is entirely untrue in my experience.

I had a 03 Cobra which of course was blown... This wasn't your ordinary car, built motor (ported heads, cams, .20 over, etc...), kenne bell @ 25psi, and ever other power mod you can think of...

The o2 sensors which were closed loop made an enormous difference for adjusting fuel according to temperature and altitude changes. Was there tuning done with an after market chip? Hell yes... but it was done to tell the computer to maintain a 11.5-1 a/f instead of the stock setting; and of course to adjust timing (which you cannot do with the ps3usb by itself, you need the ignition module to do that). Some people who had no clue wtf they were doing would just add fuel per rpm range which is the WRONG way to tune a car. When you do that you completely ignore the 02 sensor and the benefits it can bring.

To say the closed loop systems on cars are pointless is a ridiculous statement to make IMHO.

Now back to the 2008 Hayabusa. This isn't the same animal as the Gen I Busa's that did not have a closed loop system. Also, it is worth mentioning that closed loop systems are very new to bikes or at least the hayabusa. I wish there were better tuning alternatives for the busa (something like the SCT chips for cars) that could control many more variables. Someday the those tuning capabilities will be available and when that day comes I can throw my pc3usb and ignition module in the trash.

 

[Tybalt71]

DAM, I M EATING ALL THIS POPCORN lol, standing room only,

 

[GPW]

seems the no bs bike tuners have prove that the pc111 is not needed and that all I got for my $1000 was that sweet yoshimura sound! sheeeet im glad i didn't get hosed by a know it all "SALESMAN" I mean ahem..tuner..  

See, that's the thing.  Only one tuner on here (or anywhere that I can find) has had those results.  Everyone else has stated that you need a PCIII for maximum power and drivability.  It's the same deal with the closed loop system on cars.  It's still not advanced enough and giving the ECU the correct information/readings to adjust the bike to 100%.  I've tried to tell people this but they want to get mad when it is pointed out.  I'm not going to bother anymore until I have my own results with the Gen-II BUSA "confirming" the same speculation and information I have learned over the years with auto's....  

Not everybody with a $57,000 dyno room is willing to admit that but the "R-77" appears to run (driveability) and show good numbers without a PCIII and very marginal gains with one, 2 HP. Again this is specific to the Yoshimura R-77 and when I put my system on my Gen II, I will do more testing to see if other systems also apply. I will be putting the Ti-Force 4-2-1-2 or 4-2-1 380 MM on our shop bike.

I believe we have an answer using reistors to get the ECU to run at a perfect 13:1 ratio or better. More testing is needed to confirm this.

 

[smitherscustoms]

A comment from a "ahem" salesman/tuner:My personal 08 busa has a pc3usb,pipe & pipercross filter.I cant wait till I pull up next to a "non tuned" 08 with the 02sensor still in it & blow his doors off.I'll sell more power commanders and dyno tunes!Power is why guys buy busas.Fuel controllers help GOOD tuners make more power.This is no BS!Dyno figures vary between dynos because of varying factors,brand of dyno,weather,calibration,measurement method,tuning method,(uncorrected,std,sae,din,eec,jis)etc.Again,no BS.I dont believe Anyone is posting false numbers or results.I think the accuser is the only one trying to gain something.Honesty,integrity,who knows? Each dyno is relavant to itself and results should not be argued between different dynos. Most dyno owners (including myself)pride theirselves in the fact that they spend tons of money on their dynos,dyno rooms,and related equipment, and frankly I'm tired of hearing about it.
No BS Facts:
great running 08 busa = pipe,02 sensor installed,no tune
faster great running 08busa = pipe,pc3 usb,properly tuned,02 removed
my 2 cents- take it or leave it!

 

[Elganja]

No BS Facts:
great running 08 busa = pipe,02 sensor installed,no tune
faster great running 08busa = pipe,pc3 usb,properly tuned,02 removed
my 2 cents- take it or leave it!

Umm... I believe this is what GPW was hinting at the whole time!

I think the real arguments are:
-if you really need it or not => Depends on your application IMHO
-if the stock 02 is closed loop or not => It is but maybe not as advanced as we would like IMHO

 

[Falconer]

the problem is 1 tuner is clearly scared of losing business. the other is just reporting his findings. one has overstated his importance as a custom mapper and is very rude and unprofessional. gpw you are class act!! wish you were in socal..and smithers you gotta complex? i wasn't referring to you as I didn't read your post. and have never read a bad word about you..lol...you know I see guys every weekend with thousands spent on performance parts but they ride like twats! so that extra 2HP you get with a pc is pointless. I really dont think the average busa owner needs more power. but can easily be talked out of $$ better spent on a track day or racing school to make THEMSELES FASTER...gpw your a patient man and its clear you would admit if you were wrong . wish there were more like you out there. you are just looking out for our best interest. it's appreciated ...

 

[onedownfiveup]

so that extra 2HP you get with a pc is pointless. I really dont think the average busa owner needs more power. but can easily be talked out of $$ better spent on a track day or racing school to make THEMSELES FASTER.

It's pretty clear you don't really know what a good dyno tune can do for you by your statement I quoted.

Go ride a bike that's been properly tuned with a PC and you'll probably stick your foot in your mouth about the PC being pointless for the average busa owner, or hell average bike owner.

 

[Falconer]

btw from a stop all the parts in the world are not enough to overcome the skill required to launch busa@6000 rpm and you know very few have what it takes. i see alot of built bikes on 1 wheel getting smaller in the mirror! my point is whats the point if your built busa has 2 much HP for your skinny little arms!!!lol...ok i'm done stirring the pot.

 

[onedownfiveup]

btw from a stop all the parts in the world are not enough to overcome the skill required to launch busa@6000 rpm and you know very few have what it takes. i see alot of built bikes on 1 wheel getting smaller in the mirror! my point is whats the point if your built busa has 2 much HP for your skinny little arms!!!lol...ok i'm done stirring the pot.

Sure there are parts out there that can overcome a skilled person hand clutching a 6000 rpm launch.

Multi-Stage Lock up, Slider, ? ? ?

btw, we leave at 8

 

[smitherscustoms]

No complex here,I am on alot of forums & read alot of mis stated facts or findings.It seems that most have a motive behind their posts and I hear the same crap over & over again.I tend to get irratated when someone posts their findings for info for others & there is always someone waiting in the wings to dispute or degrade to make themselves credible.i guess its human nature.Forums are a good place for info,good & bad.I am not directing this toward anyone specific,just everything in genral.

BTW- there is more to be had than a measly 2hp with a good tune in a pc3