boosta1395
Registered
STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY POST CHEEZE. WHAT ARE THE #s THAT YOU ARE GETTING ? PIPE AND PC V PIPE AND CLOSED LOOP ? SELL ME ON A PC.
No Re-mapping needed for 08 Busa???
- Thread starter nasty nate
- Start date
Johnnycheese
Registered
must be too lazy to do a search.STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY POST CHEEZE. WHAT ARE THE #s THAT YOU ARE GETTING ? PIPE AND PC V PIPE AND CLOSED LOOP ? SELL ME ON A PC.
fine I guess I will have to stop what I am doing to search for you
boosta1395
Registered
THANKS CHEEZE THAT WOULD BE NEET.
Yoshimura found the same results, hence their reporting of no-remapping needed with their full systems which make more power than some systems begging you to buy a PCIII. I am sure other companies saw the same thing. If the bung for the stock 02 sensor was in the right spot and the right size we would know a little more about the other systems. Yoshimura R&D knows their stuff...they have been around since the 80's as well, they just don't lie....which is smart business.....
I just reported what we saw thats all.
I just reported what we saw thats all.
boosta1395
Registered
Yoshimura has been around since the early 70s and maybe earlier.I had a set of their cams in my KZ900 in 1974. Thanks for all the work HPC .
Where is that listed on Yosh's site....?
Because right under the 08 BUSA new products page on the Yosh site, it says... "*Yoshimura recommends fuel map tuning to maximize performance benefits from any exhaust system modification."
Look at the bottom of the page...
https://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-NP_2008_suzuki_gsx1300r_hayabusa.aspx
Based on the graphs from the Yosh site, there is a horible dip from 2,500-4,500 and again between 6-8k so I wouldn't really call that optimal tuning. Not to mention they don't have the A/F even listed. Will it work on the OEM setup, probably....but that's far from an optimal tune IMO. But what do I know...
Because right under the 08 BUSA new products page on the Yosh site, it says... "*Yoshimura recommends fuel map tuning to maximize performance benefits from any exhaust system modification."
Look at the bottom of the page...
https://www.yoshimura-rd.com/t-NP_2008_suzuki_gsx1300r_hayabusa.aspx
Based on the graphs from the Yosh site, there is a horible dip from 2,500-4,500 and again between 6-8k so I wouldn't really call that optimal tuning. Not to mention they don't have the A/F even listed. Will it work on the OEM setup, probably....but that's far from an optimal tune IMO. But what do I know...
Italian Trev
Registered
When I enquired with Yoshi re. the need for a Power Commander they replied with;
Trevor,
We do recommend getting a power commander when installing a full system, but no other modifications are required. Thanks for your interest in Yoshimura!
When my R77 arrives, I'll just pop it on and ride it to see and then I'll decide if I really do need to invest in a PC.
Trevor,
We do recommend getting a power commander when installing a full system, but no other modifications are required. Thanks for your interest in Yoshimura!
When my R77 arrives, I'll just pop it on and ride it to see and then I'll decide if I really do need to invest in a PC.
Here were the air fuel numbers, not 13:1 perfect but when we did make the afr 13:1 we picked up only 2 hp.....
Guys here is the AFR break down of the R-77 exhaust system installed, O2 sensor in place, high flow air filter. WOT pull.
Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\Suzuki\Gen II Hayabusa\Bailey 2008 R-77 Pipercross Race\R77 Pipercross & Ram Air O2 IN.drf
Run Title:
Run Notes:
Run Date: 1/16/2008 11:36:46 AM
R77 Pipercross & Ram Air O2 IN.drf: 68.17 °F 29.81 in-Hg Humidity: 16 % SAE: 0.97 Average Gear Ratio: 70.96
s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
N/A 1.90 N/A N/A N/A
2.74 2.00 11.56 30.20 14.66
2.90 2.10 22.81 57.03 13.99
3.02 2.20 25.01 59.70 13.54
3.13 2.30 27.52 62.82 13.51
3.23 2.40 30.39 66.49 13.55
3.32 2.50 33.27 69.89 13.70
3.41 2.60 36.00 72.72 13.92
3.50 2.70 37.99 73.90 14.17
3.59 2.80 39.66 74.39 14.46
3.68 2.90 41.02 74.29 14.79
3.77 3.00 42.41 74.24 14.87
3.86 3.10 43.96 74.48 14.57
3.95 3.20 45.46 74.62 14.18
4.04 3.30 46.84 74.55 13.82
4.13 3.40 48.19 74.44 13.46
4.22 3.50 49.69 74.56 13.09
4.30 3.60 51.51 75.14 12.79
4.39 3.70 53.91 76.52 12.54
4.47 3.80 57.04 78.84 12.35
4.55 3.90 60.25 81.13 12.31
4.63 4.00 63.84 83.82 12.44
4.70 4.10 66.98 85.80 12.59
4.78 4.20 69.62 87.06 12.74
4.85 4.30 72.30 88.31 12.94
4.92 4.40 74.80 89.28 13.16
5.00 4.50 77.16 90.05 13.37
5.07 4.60 79.40 90.66 13.50
5.14 4.70 81.42 90.99 13.56
5.21 4.80 83.50 91.36 13.62
5.28 4.90 85.47 91.61 13.61
5.36 5.00 87.84 92.27 13.56
5.43 5.10 90.36 93.06 13.47
5.49 5.20 93.14 94.07 13.39
5.56 5.30 96.16 95.29 13.34
5.63 5.40 99.16 96.44 13.32
5.70 5.50 102.15 97.55 13.30
5.76 5.60 104.78 98.27 13.31
5.83 5.70 107.95 99.46 13.35
5.89 5.80 111.38 100.85 13.41
5.95 5.90 114.39 101.83 13.48
6.02 6.00 117.15 102.55 13.55
6.08 6.10 119.51 102.89 13.63
6.14 6.20 121.09 102.58 13.71
6.21 6.30 122.48 102.11 13.79
6.27 6.40 124.37 102.06 13.82
6.34 6.50 126.29 102.04 13.80
6.40 6.60 128.63 102.36 13.76
6.47 6.70 131.10 102.77 13.71
6.53 6.80 133.66 103.24 13.67
6.59 6.90 136.84 104.16 13.65
6.65 7.00 140.01 105.05 13.63
6.71 7.10 142.62 105.50 13.62
6.77 7.20 144.78 105.61 13.63
6.84 7.30 146.70 105.55 13.67
6.90 7.40 147.79 104.90 13.73
6.96 7.50 149.01 104.35 13.79
7.03 7.60 149.74 103.48 13.84
7.09 7.70 151.17 103.11 13.87
7.16 7.80 153.08 103.08 13.90
7.22 7.90 155.41 103.32 13.93
7.28 8.00 157.59 103.46 13.93
7.35 8.10 159.63 103.50 13.90
7.41 8.20 161.93 103.72 13.87
7.48 8.30 163.77 103.63 13.85
7.54 8.40 166.14 103.88 13.84
7.60 8.50 167.96 103.78 13.85
7.67 8.60 169.39 103.45 13.87
7.73 8.70 171.25 103.38 13.89
7.79 8.80 172.53 102.97 13.89
7.86 8.90 174.02 102.70 13.89
7.93 9.00 175.00 102.13 13.89
7.99 9.10 175.76 101.44 13.89
8.06 9.20 176.55 100.79 13.89
8.13 9.30 176.81 99.85 13.89
8.19 9.40 177.48 99.16 13.89
8.26 9.50 177.97 98.39 13.89
8.33 9.60 178.91 97.88 13.87
8.40 9.70 179.54 97.21 13.83
8.47 9.80 179.75 96.34 13.80
8.55 9.90 179.67 95.32 13.75
8.62 10.00 180.18 94.63 13.69
8.69 10.10 180.35 93.79 13.63
8.77 10.20 179.86 92.61 13.58
8.84 10.30 179.72 91.64 13.56
8.92 10.40 179.33 90.56 13.54
9.00 10.50 179.48 89.78 13.53
9.07 10.60 179.28 88.83 13.52
9.15 10.70 178.60 87.67 13.51
9.24 10.80 177.14 86.15 13.51
9.32 10.90 175.84 84.73 13.59
9.40 11.00 174.88 83.50 13.72
9.67 11.10 105.43 49.90 N/A
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 9.67 11.10 180.35 105.61 14.87
MIN: 2.74 1.90 11.56 30.20 12.31
Guys here is the AFR break down of the R-77 exhaust system installed, O2 sensor in place, high flow air filter. WOT pull.
Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\Suzuki\Gen II Hayabusa\Bailey 2008 R-77 Pipercross Race\R77 Pipercross & Ram Air O2 IN.drf
Run Title:
Run Notes:
Run Date: 1/16/2008 11:36:46 AM
R77 Pipercross & Ram Air O2 IN.drf: 68.17 °F 29.81 in-Hg Humidity: 16 % SAE: 0.97 Average Gear Ratio: 70.96
s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
N/A 1.90 N/A N/A N/A
2.74 2.00 11.56 30.20 14.66
2.90 2.10 22.81 57.03 13.99
3.02 2.20 25.01 59.70 13.54
3.13 2.30 27.52 62.82 13.51
3.23 2.40 30.39 66.49 13.55
3.32 2.50 33.27 69.89 13.70
3.41 2.60 36.00 72.72 13.92
3.50 2.70 37.99 73.90 14.17
3.59 2.80 39.66 74.39 14.46
3.68 2.90 41.02 74.29 14.79
3.77 3.00 42.41 74.24 14.87
3.86 3.10 43.96 74.48 14.57
3.95 3.20 45.46 74.62 14.18
4.04 3.30 46.84 74.55 13.82
4.13 3.40 48.19 74.44 13.46
4.22 3.50 49.69 74.56 13.09
4.30 3.60 51.51 75.14 12.79
4.39 3.70 53.91 76.52 12.54
4.47 3.80 57.04 78.84 12.35
4.55 3.90 60.25 81.13 12.31
4.63 4.00 63.84 83.82 12.44
4.70 4.10 66.98 85.80 12.59
4.78 4.20 69.62 87.06 12.74
4.85 4.30 72.30 88.31 12.94
4.92 4.40 74.80 89.28 13.16
5.00 4.50 77.16 90.05 13.37
5.07 4.60 79.40 90.66 13.50
5.14 4.70 81.42 90.99 13.56
5.21 4.80 83.50 91.36 13.62
5.28 4.90 85.47 91.61 13.61
5.36 5.00 87.84 92.27 13.56
5.43 5.10 90.36 93.06 13.47
5.49 5.20 93.14 94.07 13.39
5.56 5.30 96.16 95.29 13.34
5.63 5.40 99.16 96.44 13.32
5.70 5.50 102.15 97.55 13.30
5.76 5.60 104.78 98.27 13.31
5.83 5.70 107.95 99.46 13.35
5.89 5.80 111.38 100.85 13.41
5.95 5.90 114.39 101.83 13.48
6.02 6.00 117.15 102.55 13.55
6.08 6.10 119.51 102.89 13.63
6.14 6.20 121.09 102.58 13.71
6.21 6.30 122.48 102.11 13.79
6.27 6.40 124.37 102.06 13.82
6.34 6.50 126.29 102.04 13.80
6.40 6.60 128.63 102.36 13.76
6.47 6.70 131.10 102.77 13.71
6.53 6.80 133.66 103.24 13.67
6.59 6.90 136.84 104.16 13.65
6.65 7.00 140.01 105.05 13.63
6.71 7.10 142.62 105.50 13.62
6.77 7.20 144.78 105.61 13.63
6.84 7.30 146.70 105.55 13.67
6.90 7.40 147.79 104.90 13.73
6.96 7.50 149.01 104.35 13.79
7.03 7.60 149.74 103.48 13.84
7.09 7.70 151.17 103.11 13.87
7.16 7.80 153.08 103.08 13.90
7.22 7.90 155.41 103.32 13.93
7.28 8.00 157.59 103.46 13.93
7.35 8.10 159.63 103.50 13.90
7.41 8.20 161.93 103.72 13.87
7.48 8.30 163.77 103.63 13.85
7.54 8.40 166.14 103.88 13.84
7.60 8.50 167.96 103.78 13.85
7.67 8.60 169.39 103.45 13.87
7.73 8.70 171.25 103.38 13.89
7.79 8.80 172.53 102.97 13.89
7.86 8.90 174.02 102.70 13.89
7.93 9.00 175.00 102.13 13.89
7.99 9.10 175.76 101.44 13.89
8.06 9.20 176.55 100.79 13.89
8.13 9.30 176.81 99.85 13.89
8.19 9.40 177.48 99.16 13.89
8.26 9.50 177.97 98.39 13.89
8.33 9.60 178.91 97.88 13.87
8.40 9.70 179.54 97.21 13.83
8.47 9.80 179.75 96.34 13.80
8.55 9.90 179.67 95.32 13.75
8.62 10.00 180.18 94.63 13.69
8.69 10.10 180.35 93.79 13.63
8.77 10.20 179.86 92.61 13.58
8.84 10.30 179.72 91.64 13.56
8.92 10.40 179.33 90.56 13.54
9.00 10.50 179.48 89.78 13.53
9.07 10.60 179.28 88.83 13.52
9.15 10.70 178.60 87.67 13.51
9.24 10.80 177.14 86.15 13.51
9.32 10.90 175.84 84.73 13.59
9.40 11.00 174.88 83.50 13.72
9.67 11.10 105.43 49.90 N/A
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 9.67 11.10 180.35 105.61 14.87
MIN: 2.74 1.90 11.56 30.20 12.31
Guys I am done debating this topic from my end. If you want a R-77 I will sell you one, if you ask me if you "NEED" a PCIII my answer will be no today tomorrow and any other day. We have sold over 30 of these systems to date, zero driveability issues noted to date and all three modes still work A-B-C.....enjoy your Gen II.
Greg
Greg
Simple answer to if you need a PC or not for the 08 is a No.
If you like your bike running in tip top shape and the best it can then yes, you need a PC or some way to tune it manually.
If you like your bike running in tip top shape and the best it can then yes, you need a PC or some way to tune it manually.
If you're racing and you want every little piece of HP, then yes, spend the extra money and get the PC. But for average Joe, pipe and O2 will do just fine. I know mine does.
Not everyone is headed to the drag strip. Our AMA Super Sport Gen II Busa will have the Ti-Force system 4-2-1 380 MM Titanium/Carbon race system on it and it will be tuned because we are using race fuel which requires additional tuning. I will post up the no BS power numbers shortly.
MetalDisorder
Registered
I have been reading this topic like crazy on a few sites for months.
With all the dyno numbers and AF info now posted why is it so hard for anyone other than a guy who makes his living tuning and selling PC's to believe that you dont need them for 99% of the GenII's out there.
Myself I am tired of dicking around with settings every time the temp changes or I go up 1000' in altitude.
I have done it with cars and bikes for long enough!
For 2-5 HP and a few thousanths on a drag strip and same on a road track.... I will skip it
Glad Suzuki finally stepped up to modern electronics!!!
Thanks GPW for the best info to date
With all the dyno numbers and AF info now posted why is it so hard for anyone other than a guy who makes his living tuning and selling PC's to believe that you dont need them for 99% of the GenII's out there.
Myself I am tired of dicking around with settings every time the temp changes or I go up 1000' in altitude.
I have done it with cars and bikes for long enough!
For 2-5 HP and a few thousanths on a drag strip and same on a road track.... I will skip it
Glad Suzuki finally stepped up to modern electronics!!!
Thanks GPW for the best info to date
Italian Trev
Registered
very true - I don't even know if there is a drag strip in GermanyNot everyone is headed to the drag strip. Our AMA Super Sport Gen II Busa will have the Ti-Force system 4-2-1 380 MM Titanium/Carbon race system on it and it will be tuned because we are using race fuel which requires additional tuning. I will post up the no BS power numbers shortly.
That's because Dynojet the maker of the Power Commander is Yosh's competitor. They want you to buy the TeKa box or whatever Yosh is using these days.
Here is how the R-77 looked on our Dynojet 250i. The AFR and power curves look pretty decent for a pipe and ECU mapping.
You are 100% happy with that A/F ratio graph and tuning on that run....?
Can you post the graph and A/F WITH the PC for comparison? Or even overlay the two graph's if you have access to the dyno computer/file...
Thanks...
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