Rear Break Question
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suzuki4life
Banned
after reading what I feel to be tons of bad advice, like I said...learn to control the braking and use the back brake effectively. In stock form the back brake has plenty of power to lock the rear tire under decel hence upgrading it is pretty pointless. Plenty of professional riders "back it in" or trail brake very controlled and very effectively. There is a good reason the brake is there. On loose substrate, the back brake is crucial because many times the front brake will cause the front end to wash out when it locks. Can't begin to tell you the number of guys who claim they dropped their bikes on stones because its impossible to ride a streetbike there because the front ends wash out...this is the real reason.
Practice and knowledge will make you a better rider, not excuses and short cuts.
Practice and knowledge will make you a better rider, not excuses and short cuts.
suzuki4life
Banned
I need to play the lottery then....been trail braking for 20 yrs and never a crash.
I think the way it is stated leads to misinterpretation..
you have to take into account any engine braking towards the rear brakes potential.. in other words, yank in the clutch and jump on the binders and the rear should provide about 30% of the braking power..
Not sure this is set in stone as the rear tire comes off the ground it has no potential to help stop the bike.. I just try to use only the engine myself.. (unless I am really overcooked and now I am in trouble anyway)
Proper braking technique is the real key... brake coming into the corners... NOT IN THEM... you have XX amount of traction available on the tires, if you are in a corner in a pretty good lean at a good clip, the application of brakes could just use up any reserve traction left in the tire... (lowside)..
Speaking as only a street rider.. if you are in this situation, you are pushing your luck IMO.. but there are times and places that are a lot better than others..
Buy "Twist of the Wrist II" covers a lot of this in great detail...
I never see guys doing any real trail braking on the streets... rather difficult without a consistent surface to control the amount of step out on the rear tire...
Turning the bike with the rear tire is not something to be practiced on the street IMHO... just leads to needless road rash incidents..
I have practiced this on clean wide open parking lots and the level of aggressiveness required to make it work is sheer stupidity on the street..
but only my opinion...
What back brake??? You mean the bike has a rear brake... never use it...
Well, I guess I hardly ever use it... I will only use it when I go from a paved road to something off ride, like on a pull off where Kilboy takes pictures. I don't want to give him more opportunity to capture the lack of riding skills I have....
Well, I guess I hardly ever use it... I will only use it when I go from a paved road to something off ride, like on a pull off where Kilboy takes pictures. I don't want to give him more opportunity to capture the lack of riding skills I have....
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suzuki4life
Banned
suzuki4life
Banned
Use your front brake and live to ride another day.
Your motorcycles front brake provides over 70% of the braking power!
Individual Motorcycle Safety Guide
Your motorcycles front brake provides over 70% of the braking power!
Individual Motorcycle Safety Guide
suzuki4life
Banned
if you can lock the rear rim, you have plenty of power.
suzuki4life
Banned
and back to the original question...YEARS ago I fabbed a dual rear brake hanger like RAM had optional on their SSS kits. On a stock busa arm, if I remember correctly you can position THREE calipers back there at 6, 9 and 12 o clock positions with the axle all the way back. My bracket and bike had calipers at the 6 and 12 positions.
Trail braking:
application of the rear brake entering and MID turn to upset the balance of the bike essentially putting more bias to the front tire and allowing the bike to lean more (as rear tire tends to slide towards the outside of the turn).. in extreme cases "backing the bike in" to the corner.. The net effect is to get the bike to change direction faster by forcing a higher lean angle in a shorter period and getting the front tire turned in a new direction quicker as the bike pivots..
Viewed head on, you can see the rear tire outside the track of the front tire.. I guess the same effect as a powerslide but more of a controlled brake slide..
Fine in a controlled environment but for a street rider on a typical street? this is a lot different than just using the rear brakes..
It took me a bit of time to get it down on the Busa (awful heavy and momentum gets in the way) and the tires had to be pretty warm.. The trail braking did not work well at all when the tires were cold as it would pretty quickly break into an uncontrolled slide.. that was when the weight of the bike was the big problem.. Just strikes me as an impossible set of conditions to be safe on the street..
S4L does it all the time? more power to him.. I think it will get guys hurt myself...
Locking the back is not that big of a deal you can still steer the bike, in fact the bike kind of corrects itself when the back slides. The trick is in how you apply the brakes, squeeze them on don't grab a whole handful. When the weight transfers to the front keep your elbows bent and use your legs and torso to keep your weight off the bars.
Jabbing at them bottoms the suspension, the bike doesn't like it and neither do riders. Causes panic, target fixation and more rider errors. If your comming in too hot you need to learn to turn the bike quicker and not chop the throttle and jump on the brakes. Turn it quicker (countersteer) and get on the gas.
Trust in the bike, chances are it's much more capable of taking the turn than you think it is if you do your part right. Stiffen the front suspension if it bottoms too easily.
Jabbing at them bottoms the suspension, the bike doesn't like it and neither do riders. Causes panic, target fixation and more rider errors. If your comming in too hot you need to learn to turn the bike quicker and not chop the throttle and jump on the brakes. Turn it quicker (countersteer) and get on the gas.
Trust in the bike, chances are it's much more capable of taking the turn than you think it is if you do your part right. Stiffen the front suspension if it bottoms too easily.
Sure lock the rear tire going in a straight line and no it is not a big deal.. but do it mid corner at 7000 rpm in third gear on "Hellbender" and you will probably wrap yourself around a tree at 100mph..
But you are right, the bike has more available than most are capable of using anyway.. well ridden, you can take the paint of the plastics and not crash the bike.. I doubt I would try any trail braking at that point
Use your rear brake the way you like.
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