Rear Break Question
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suzuki4life
Banned
I'll probably be out riding, but thanks anyway
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"
I had no idea you were a flat track racer. Post up a couple of photos. If you would share your race number I'm sure I can dig up some photos of you on the track. I have tons of video footage of flat track races from the 70's from all over the country, I may be able to find some actual footage of you racing, especially if you give me the name of the tracks you raced on.
I'm sure you know Mike Sullivan from those days of racing. He was a very well known and accomplished flat tracker #74. If you want to PM your name to me, I'll ask mike if he remembers you?
I had no idea you were a flat track racer. Post up a couple of photos. If you would share your race number I'm sure I can dig up some photos of you on the track. I have tons of video footage of flat track races from the 70's from all over the country, I may be able to find some actual footage of you racing, especially if you give me the name of the tracks you raced on.
I'm sure you know Mike Sullivan from those days of racing. He was a very well known and accomplished flat tracker #74. If you want to PM your name to me, I'll ask mike if he remembers you?
hey Tuf. Mike was recently featured in an article in this month's Roadracing World magazine. Just a little FYI in case you haven't already seen it, but I'm pretty sure you already read it.
Very correct sir! However, roadracers use the FRONT BRAKE to trail brake. By the time they reach the apex, it's throttle roll on time. TufBusa in a several post after yours has it summed up PERFECTLY!
You are joking, Right?
Most beginners have this misconception when they hear the term "Trail Braking" it means using the rear (Trailing tire) brake. It does not. Trail braking means the continuation of braking after the bike has been tipped in. Most of the really fast guys do this. Absolutly none of them use the rear brake unless they are backing it in. Even then, it's just a tap to break the tire loose.
The term "Backing it in" simply means sliding the rear tire to the outside. It was the infamous Gary McCoy who first brought this little trick to Moto GP. This also has little to do with the rear brake, it's done with the throttle. The rear brake can be tapped to get the rear tire to break loose and then it's all throttle spinning the rear, not skidding it.
"Power Slide" is sliding both tires, not just the rear.
If the Biscuit Man really can slide his busa consistantly through the corners using the rear brake without crashing, I'd drive all the way across the country just to get that on film. And I'll pay for the track day! That's a review worth cash!
This is what Kieth Code has to say on braking issues in his book "Twist of the Wrist II".
The obvious mathematics of the situation are that the front wheel can do 100 percent of the braking and the back at that point just locks up no matter who you are. Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then, if you still have a use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track. I'll leave the final decision up to you.
Kieth goes on to say; It is my recommendation that you master using only the front brake except when riding in slippery conditions. Locking the back brake also puts the bike out of control. The rear wheel, spinning, povides the vast majority of stability for the bike from the steering head back. In other words, everything but the front-end is kept stable by the gyro force of the spinning rear wheel.
So either Mr. Biscuit or Kieth Code is full of BS? You decide!
Couldn't have said it better myself. On backing it in....there is another method I learned from Jason Pridmore. It merely involves just braking very deep and hard into a braking zone while simultaneously blipping down the gearbox. the weight transfer to the front will get the rear light. The engine braking will break the rear, and the clutch and throttle are delicately modulated to control wheel spin/regrip. Jason told me to not use the rear in that style of backing it in. However, I've seen Jake Zemke use the rear to break the rear like you've mentioned. I guess there's more than one way to stuff a pig.
hey Tuf. Mike was recently featured in an article in this month's Roadracing World magazine. Just a little FYI in case you haven't already seen it, but I'm pretty sure you already read it.
I have not seen it. Please direct me to the page number. December's issue, correct?
Is this an article on his flat track racing in the 70's? If he was truely a flat track racer, if you have his race number, please share it. I'm sure I have some footage of him. If I do, I'd be happy to post it up on the forum!
On your point of "Backing it in", our very own Mitchell Pierce is the best in our neighborhood at backing it in. Type in his name on YouTube and you'll find lots of footage of Mitchell playing on the track. Mitchell uses the rear brake to get the slide started and then uses throttle to keep it stepped out. Mitchell is now 22 years old and quite the rider.
suzuki4life
Banned
well in PA, if the tester notes you are not using both brakes in a controlled manner...you fail. So with that said...have fun.
Yes-sir-ee, you are absolutely correct. But once you get out of that parking lot with the cones and the tester you will enter the world of the sport bike.
Attend a track school and you'll learn how brakes really work and it won't include the rear unless you are riding in the rain.
hey Tuf. Mike was recently featured in an article in this month's Roadracing World magazine. Just a little FYI in case you haven't already seen it, but I'm pretty sure you already read it.
Hey Pimp, my apologies! I thought you were referring to Mike as in Mr Biscuit. I just realized you were actually referring to Mike Sullivan. I have not read the article yet but intend to. I was aware Sully was in the January issue.
I spent the entire day with Mike at the Seattle Motorcycle Show promoting his race school. I can hardly talk tonight and I'm hoping my voice holds out for tomorrow? Lots of interest in his school, especially the "Women Only" school Day in July.
I could probably get you in on the girlie day if you would sport a wig and lipstick!
All of you to your rooms 
Hey Pimp, my apologies! I thought you were referring to Mike as in Mr Biscuit. I just realized you were actually referring to Mike Sullivan. I have not read the article yet but intend to. I was aware Sully was in the January issue.
I spent the entire day with Mike at the Seattle Motorcycle Show promoting his race school. I can hardly talk tonight and I'm hoping my voice holds out for tomorrow? Lots of interest in his school, especially the "Women Only" school Day in July.
I could probably get you in on the girlie day if you would sport a wig and lipstick!
It's all good Tuf.
BTW-Keigwins posted their 09 schedule and Miller Motorsports Park's Full track is listed June 13 and 14. I'm thinking about doing that date. It'd be cool to join you and exchange skillz and ideas of going faster and faster.
suzuki4life
Banned
tracks and the street are different places and should be treated differently.
There shouldn't be cross traffic, pot holes, gravel, animals etc on a track...
You also should have the ability to CHOOSE your path for optimal driving ability. Not so on the street. Brakes on a track are used to bleed off speed, not really to actually stop. Apples and oranges man,
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