And the funniest thing that I ever heard someone say to a police officer: I was working a 4th of July schmoozing detail on a local beach, just kind of trying to keep people from killing each other too much. There is no alcohol allowed on the beach, so I was checking for that in between putting "Jr. Crimefighter" stickers on little kids. I walked up to this normal looking guy and his family and pointed to his cooler. I said "Got any beer in there?". He looked up at me, sheilding his eyes from the sun with his hand, and said "Go get your own."
Running from the man...It can get you killed
- Thread starter OB_Booker
- Start date
"I gotta pee." Seems to have something to do with being handcuffed. I don't understand the connection between the bladder and the wrists. I think that it would be much more responsible of criminals to go to the bathroom BEFORE committing a crime. The correct response is of course "Go ahead.".
OB_Atlanta Ga . Law Dog
Registered
Kirk ever feel like we are fighting a losing battle.....LOL. It takes another officer to understand what we are trying to get across.
OB_Lofty Abuse
Registered
You tell em Kirk!
You have to walk a mile in a mans shoes...........................
You have to walk a mile in a mans shoes...........................
G
Guest
Kirk writes:
"WAKE UP!! If the police don't chase, then EVERYBODY runs"
Not neccessarily. And certainly not if they realized that there are other ways to catch them other than endangering the lives of police, suspect and innocent bystanders.
The cops in states that have thankfully made these pursuits illegal have found many other ways to catch these traffic "suspects" without killing themselves and others. It's time all PDs learn the same for the time is coming when laws will change in your part of the country. Unfortunately many have to die before lawmakers WAKE UP and do the right the thing.
Protect and Serve - Not Chase and Kill.
"WAKE UP!! If the police don't chase, then EVERYBODY runs"
Not neccessarily. And certainly not if they realized that there are other ways to catch them other than endangering the lives of police, suspect and innocent bystanders.
The cops in states that have thankfully made these pursuits illegal have found many other ways to catch these traffic "suspects" without killing themselves and others. It's time all PDs learn the same for the time is coming when laws will change in your part of the country. Unfortunately many have to die before lawmakers WAKE UP and do the right the thing.
Protect and Serve - Not Chase and Kill.
G
Guest
"I don't have any ID"
G
Guest
"I didn't know you were the police."
G
Guest
"Shouldn't you be catching real criminals?"
G
Guest
"My speedometer is not working."
G
Guest
"Don't you have anything better to do?"
G
Guest
And the most common, "Two beers."
OB_Hayawoody
Registered
KIRK YOUR WRONG ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT ONCE AGIAN "MOST" COPS ARE NEVER WRONG!
G
Guest
That's right - post anything as long as you don't address the real issue. Post all the lame excuses from losers you like but it doesn't solve the problem. Here is a report from those who have decided to address the problem instead of making excuses:
From MSNBC:
HIGH-SPEED CHASES are ticking time bombs. After a chase on the Golden Gate bridge this week, the driver jumped to the water -anything can happen.
Even police admit they get caught up in the heat of the chase.
“Your adrenaline starts flowing, you become scared, you become nervous, you’re excited,†said Deputy Steve Flamm, a Los Angeles county sheriff. “You don’t know who is in that car you are pursuing.â€
But surprisingly, only 35 percent of those who run are dangerous felons; in fact, 44 percent have committed only a simple traffic offense.
“For the most part, they’re very young, scared and stupid,†said Geoff Alpert, who has studied police chases for 20 years.
“Officers need to understand who these people are and not have the mistaken idea that everyone who flees has a dead body in the trunk.â€
And in fact, 97 percent of the nations police departments now have strict pursuit policies.
Even in chase-crazy Southern California, a few departments will not pursue drivers for minor traffic offenses, petty theft or auto theft, said Deputy Lee Baca, an L.A. county sheriff. “Lives are more important than capturing vehicles or material objects.â€
[THAT DESERVES A REPRINT]:“Lives are more important than capturing vehicles or material objects.â€
Since the L.A. County Sheriff’s Department adopted its policy three years ago, pursuits have dropped 37 percent, injuries from accidents are down 42 percent and no one has been killed.
So why do are there still so many televised chases in Southern California? The Highway Patrol and LAPD are still aggressively pursuing those who run.
Until now, police haven’t been able to do much to stop fleeing suspects before there’s a disastrous wreck. Spike strips, which puncture a car’s tires, are effective, but only if police can get ahead of the pursuit. But now police are testing two promising hi-tech gadgets.
HIGH-TECH TOYS
A Buck Rogers-looking laser gun is the latest weapon in the war against car chases. All police have to do is point and shoot. Zapped by the laser, the car immediately loses power, eventually shuts down, and comes to a safe stop. However, for the gun to work, every car would need a special computer microchip. Charlie Gabbard, its inventor, is hopeful California will pass a law requiring it.
There’s also a “Road Patriot†— a robot that police launch from their car to a fleeing vehicle which shuts down the electrical system.
There’s no doubt people will still run, but maybe not as far and not as many innocent people will get hurt and killed
[THAT WOULD BE NICE WOULDN'T IT?]
From MSNBC:
HIGH-SPEED CHASES are ticking time bombs. After a chase on the Golden Gate bridge this week, the driver jumped to the water -anything can happen.
Even police admit they get caught up in the heat of the chase.
“Your adrenaline starts flowing, you become scared, you become nervous, you’re excited,†said Deputy Steve Flamm, a Los Angeles county sheriff. “You don’t know who is in that car you are pursuing.â€
But surprisingly, only 35 percent of those who run are dangerous felons; in fact, 44 percent have committed only a simple traffic offense.
“For the most part, they’re very young, scared and stupid,†said Geoff Alpert, who has studied police chases for 20 years.
“Officers need to understand who these people are and not have the mistaken idea that everyone who flees has a dead body in the trunk.â€
And in fact, 97 percent of the nations police departments now have strict pursuit policies.
Even in chase-crazy Southern California, a few departments will not pursue drivers for minor traffic offenses, petty theft or auto theft, said Deputy Lee Baca, an L.A. county sheriff. “Lives are more important than capturing vehicles or material objects.â€
[THAT DESERVES A REPRINT]:“Lives are more important than capturing vehicles or material objects.â€
Since the L.A. County Sheriff’s Department adopted its policy three years ago, pursuits have dropped 37 percent, injuries from accidents are down 42 percent and no one has been killed.
So why do are there still so many televised chases in Southern California? The Highway Patrol and LAPD are still aggressively pursuing those who run.
Until now, police haven’t been able to do much to stop fleeing suspects before there’s a disastrous wreck. Spike strips, which puncture a car’s tires, are effective, but only if police can get ahead of the pursuit. But now police are testing two promising hi-tech gadgets.
HIGH-TECH TOYS
A Buck Rogers-looking laser gun is the latest weapon in the war against car chases. All police have to do is point and shoot. Zapped by the laser, the car immediately loses power, eventually shuts down, and comes to a safe stop. However, for the gun to work, every car would need a special computer microchip. Charlie Gabbard, its inventor, is hopeful California will pass a law requiring it.
There’s also a “Road Patriot†— a robot that police launch from their car to a fleeing vehicle which shuts down the electrical system.
There’s no doubt people will still run, but maybe not as far and not as many innocent people will get hurt and killed
[THAT WOULD BE NICE WOULDN'T IT?]
G
Guest
More? Here is the text from one of several DATELINE Reports that have covered this subject:
SPEED
Announcer: From our studios in New York, here is Stone Phillips.
STONE PHILLIPS: Good evening. You're driving down the road when suddenly you find yourself in the middle of this: a high-speed chase involving police. Chances are, you're not in great danger. But that's not always the case when police are in hot pursuit. All too often, a chase ends with the death of an innocent victim: someone guilty of nothing more than being at the wrong intersection at the wrong time. Here's John Larson.
JOHN LARSON reporting: (Voiceover) It's a scene right out of the movies: the bad guy makes a break for it, the cops right on his tail. But these are not movies, and in California, these real-life chase scenes happen many times a day, often with disastrous results.
(Car speeding down road with police cars in pursuit; crash scene)
Unidentified Reporter #1: (Describing chase) The Los Angeles Police Department pursuing this vehicle....
(Car speeding down road)
LARSON: (Voiceover) In Los Angeles, you see chases on the local news almost every week, reporters doing the play-by-play live.
(Car speeding down city street)
Reporter #1: (Describing chase) Oh look at that! Oh!
(Car turning a corner and nearly colliding with other traffic)
LARSON: (Voiceover) The problem, critics say, is the chases run through crowded neighborhoods and often wind up killing innocent bystanders.
(Car swerving in and out of traffic on busy street)
Reporter #1: (Describing chase) Now we understand that shots were fired and we believe that--whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Now we've just had a traffic accident here.
(Car being driven wrecklessly down road and colliding with light pole on sidewalk; man getting out of car and running)
Mr. JEFF ALFORD: A vehicle is far more dangerous than a firearm. Yet police officers will chase in a car when civilians are at greater risk.
LARSON: (Voiceover) Criminologist Jeff Alford:
(Mr. Alford)
Mr. ALFORD: If someone robs a grocery store or even robs a bank, is the police officer going to shoot the person in the middle of a crowd? I don't think so.
LARSON: (Voiceover) And some Californians now believe high-speed pursuits are exactly that, like shooting a gun into a crowd. Far from the sirens and the screeching tires, a prize fight in Irvine, California. The boxer in the red shorts, Ernesto Magdaleno, is about to win his 22nd professional fight.
(Police in high-speed pursuit of truck; boxing match)
Unidentified Boxing Commentator: The winner by unanimous decision: Ernesto!
(Boxer with arm being raised by referee)
LARSON: (Voiceover) But in three days time, Magdaleno and his family would witness their first high-speed police pursuit, and they would join others who question whether catching the bad guys is always worth the risk.
(Photograph of Ernesto Magdaleno and family)
Ms. CARRIE MAGDALENO: We were a nice, normal family going to a barbecue. We were just doing what we were supposed to be doing.
LARSON: (Voiceover) New Year's Eve day. The Magdaleno family is driving down Newland Street in Huntington Beach, California at 2:00 in the afternoon. Ernesto Magdaleno is behind the wheel.
(Blurred view of side of road as seen from moving car)
LARSON: But two miles away at this gas station, police say an attempted burglary was going on. Two suspects were apparently trying to steal camera equipment from a car. Caught in the act, they made a break for it. Police were just a couple of blocks away, and the chase was on.
(Voiceover) A minute later, the Magdaleno family approaches the intersection at Edinger Avenue. Carrie Magdaleno, Ernesto's wife:
(Traffic on road; Edinger Avenue street sign)
Ms. MAGDALENO: I don't remember if we were stopped at the light or if we had the green. But I heard Ernest make a comment like, `Oh no,' and turn. And I turned my head and say a white flash.
LARSON: (Voiceover) Two-year-old Joshua breaks his leg, six-year-old Samantha cracks her skull. Carrie finds her husband on the pavement.
(Photo of Joshua; photo of Samantha; Photo of Ernesto; crash wreckage)
Ms. MAGDALENO: He couldn't move. He was trying to talk. He couldn't talk to me. And I told him that he was hurt bad and he wouldn't make it. So he had to listen to me. And I told him how much we loved him and we would be OK. I talked to him until he died.
LARSON: (Voiceover) A tragic, undeserved death. But nationally, not all that uncommon. Deadly pursuits occur most often in states with lots of cars, like Illinois, Florida and Texas. But the leader, by far, is California, where last year there were more than 7,000 police chases. Two-hundred ninety-four innocent people, many of them bystanders, were injured. Twenty-one innocent people, like Ernesto Magdaleno were killed.
(Photo of Magdaleno family; wrecked car; map of United states with Illinois, Florida, Texas and California highlighted)
TEXT:
California 1995 7818 Police chases 294 Innocent injured 21 Innocent killed
LARSON: (Voiceover) And for what? In many cases, the answer might surprise you. Police initiated the chase that killed Magdaleno even though the suspects at the gas station decided to drop the camera equipment and run away. His brother says Ernesto died for a camera that was never even taken.
(Boxer punching boxing bag; photo of Ernesto in boxing gear; sign painted by Ernesto's children that says "Love you daddy. Love, Sam and Josh"; roadway)
Mr. JOE MAGDALENO (Ernesto's Brother) I just have trouble with the fact--the circumstances of how it occurred and why it occurred. I--I don't know. I don't know why it happened.
LARSON: (Voiceover) So what, you may be asking, were the police supposed to do? Let the guy go? According to criminologist Jeff Alford:
(Police at scene of car wreck)
Mr. ALFORD: For the time being, yes. For the time being, let them go. Good police work should be able to find out who they are.
(Voiceover) If you have a license plate or a partial plate, if you have some type of identification, that's how most criminals are caught.
(High-speed police chase)
LARSON: (Voiceover) But many police argue that while a chase may start for something minor like a broken tail-light, the reason the suspect runs is because they're guilty of something more serious: a felony like a rape or a murder. California Highway Patrol Commissioner Dwight Helmick:
(Police chase; body being covered by blanket; paramedics with injured person on stretcher)
Mr. DWIGHT HELMICK: The numbers are somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 to 72 percent, when we actually get that person stopped, they are wanted for a variety of other violations, they're transporting drugs, they're doing felony-type offenses.
LARSON: (Voiceover) According to the patrol's own statistics, of all the suspects they chase and catch in California, 74 percent turn out to be felons. Sounds like a good reason to chase, right? But DATELINE found that in more than half those cases, the worst thing the suspects were ever charged with was wreckless driving from the chase itself. And in most of the other cases, the worst charge was car theft. Only 15 percent were ever charged with violent felonies like rape, robbery or murder. After all of these dangerous chases, the overwhelming majority, almost nine out of 10, are not violent felonies at all, like Commissioner Helmick would like you to believe.
(California Pursuit Suspects Charges graph showing percentages of charges)
LARSON: At what point does the cost of finding out whether or not that guy with the broken tail-light is actually a felon just get to be to high?
Mr. HELMICK: I'll tell you when the cost is too high: when in retrospect, someone gets hurt. We don't have to wrestle with an answer if the person that's violating the law would simply do what the law says and pull over and stop.
LARSON: This is the real world. That's not going to happen. People are going to run. They always have.
Mr. HELMICK: Not only is it the real world, some of the people that we don't stop in their pursuit, they're going to go on and they're going to kill other people also. That's the real world.
LARSON: (Voiceover) But in the real world, the most spectacular chases often result from the most trivial reasons.
(Chases as seen from helicopter)
Unidentified Reporter #2: (Describing chase) ...just see the line-up of the police vehicles that are all in the--in the pursuit.
(Long line of police vehicles in pursuit of truck)
LARSON: Five-fifty PM, June 19th, 1995. Police are chasing an unknown suspect driving a white truck.
(Police chasing truck)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) It's almost l--a game of cat and mouse right now.
(Police vehicles pursuing truck)
LARSON: (Voiceover) The chase will take police through 18 cities, last almost two and a half hours and be carried live on Los Angeles television.
(Police vehicles chasing truck on freeway)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) Now you can see them just kind of moving up.
(Police pursuing truck)
LARSON: (Voiceover) At one point, the truck gets stuck in an alleyway and police slash its tires.
(Footage of police in pursuit of truck)
Officer RUSS WILLIAMSON (Burbank Police Department): I moved over to one side of the truck and I had a folding truck and I popped two of the tires in the rear.
LARSON: (Voiceover) But unbelievably, the truck escapes, driving on its rims, its roof ripped.
(Police pursuing truck on freeway)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) The way this vehicle is, the condition of it, I--I'm expecting that it won't last too much longer, but then again...
(Police pursuing truck on freeway)
LARSON: (Voiceover) Police shoot out its remaining back tires and finally risk ramming the truck.
(Police car ramming into truck)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) The suspect definitely has a will to get away.
(Police ramming truck to force it to stop)
LARSON: (Voiceover) After two hours and 20 minutes, the chase is over.
(Truck being forced to stop and being surrounded by police cars)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) ...matter of just surrounding this--this vehicle as quickly as possible as you see the officers doing right now, pulling their guns.
(Police surrounding truck and drawing guns)
LARSON: (Voiceover) So why was the suspect running? He did have a criminal record but he was not wanted for anything. Police just wanted to warn him he was driving his truck the wrong way down a one-way street. Nonetheless, police charged him with 10 felonies, all resulting from the chase. He's now serving six years in a federal prison.
(Police photo of suspect in chase; police pulling suspect out of truck; police and traffic on street; police car hauling suspect away)
Mr. ALFORD: There are a lot of people who run simply because they're scared. It could be that they're running away from a crime scene. It could be that they're just scared of--of getting another ticket.
LARSON: That's why far from California, police in other states have sharply cut back on their number of high-speed pursuits. They have re-examined why they give chase in the first place.
(Voiceover) In Baltimore, police have a no-pursuit policy--no car chases allowed for any reason. In the Tampa Bay area, police must first consider the originating offense, why they tried to pull the suspect over in the first place, before a pursuit can begin. And in Miami, police must have evidence that a violent felony has been committed before they can chase. Not so in California, where despite 21 innocent people being killed last year, the highway patrol has resisted public efforts to bring chase policy here in line with cities like Miami.
(Police car being driven down street; police chasing vehicle; car being driven down street; crash scene)
Mr. HELMICK: They have the right to have their own policy. I personally differ with that particular policy.
(Voiceover) I am for one that believes that--that if in fact you don't apprehend those individuals, we will lose control.
(Police with guns pointed at suspect in high-speed chase; police officer escorting handcuffed man to squad car)
Mr. HELMICK: And I just think that--that's our job and I think that's the--what we're doing and I think it's right.
LARSON: (Voiceover) The highway patrol says its officers are highly trained to handle high-speed chases: both the driving and the split-second decision making. Helmick believes tighter regulations would just make matters worse.
(Patrol car being driven on training course; Larson and Helmick)
Mr. HELMICK: You put a particular policy that the maximum speed should never be more than 100 miles an hour, and then you watch what happens if an officer happens to go 101 miles an hour. By breaking the policy, all the sudden in court we've got some bright attorney saying, `Look here. You even broke your own policy. Guilty by default.'
LARSON: (Voiceover) In fact, Carrie Magdaleno is suing police, because she says they violated their own policy. She claims the pursuing officer did not turn on his siren to warn her husband of the chase.
(Carrie Magdaleno; court papers)
Ms. MAGDALENO: It was his time. I just know that God needed him for some reason.
LARSON: (Voiceover) It makes sense the debate whether police should give up the chase would be most heated in California...
(Police pursuing car on interstate)
Unidentified Reporter #3: (Describing chase) This is getting to be a very familiar sight around here: another wild freeway chase in the south...
(Car on interstate fishtailing and slamming into guard rail)
LARSON: (Voiceover) ...where there are more cars than any other state, where there's a lot of room to run, and where it seems as soon as one chase ends...
(Motorcycle weaving in and out of traffic on interstate)
Unidentified Reporter #4: (Watching chase) Whoa! What just happened?
(Motorcycle slamming into trailer of truck)
LARSON: (Voiceover) ...another begins.
(Police pursuing car)
PHILLIPS: The Fountain Valley Police Department told DATELINE it has no comment on the Magdaleno lawsuit. In the meantime, some police forces have developed high-tech tools to try and end high-speed pursuits earlier and safer. One example: a device called the Road Patriot, a rocket-powered sled that slides under a car and electronically disables the engine.
SPEED
Announcer: From our studios in New York, here is Stone Phillips.
STONE PHILLIPS: Good evening. You're driving down the road when suddenly you find yourself in the middle of this: a high-speed chase involving police. Chances are, you're not in great danger. But that's not always the case when police are in hot pursuit. All too often, a chase ends with the death of an innocent victim: someone guilty of nothing more than being at the wrong intersection at the wrong time. Here's John Larson.
JOHN LARSON reporting: (Voiceover) It's a scene right out of the movies: the bad guy makes a break for it, the cops right on his tail. But these are not movies, and in California, these real-life chase scenes happen many times a day, often with disastrous results.
(Car speeding down road with police cars in pursuit; crash scene)
Unidentified Reporter #1: (Describing chase) The Los Angeles Police Department pursuing this vehicle....
(Car speeding down road)
LARSON: (Voiceover) In Los Angeles, you see chases on the local news almost every week, reporters doing the play-by-play live.
(Car speeding down city street)
Reporter #1: (Describing chase) Oh look at that! Oh!
(Car turning a corner and nearly colliding with other traffic)
LARSON: (Voiceover) The problem, critics say, is the chases run through crowded neighborhoods and often wind up killing innocent bystanders.
(Car swerving in and out of traffic on busy street)
Reporter #1: (Describing chase) Now we understand that shots were fired and we believe that--whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Now we've just had a traffic accident here.
(Car being driven wrecklessly down road and colliding with light pole on sidewalk; man getting out of car and running)
Mr. JEFF ALFORD: A vehicle is far more dangerous than a firearm. Yet police officers will chase in a car when civilians are at greater risk.
LARSON: (Voiceover) Criminologist Jeff Alford:
(Mr. Alford)
Mr. ALFORD: If someone robs a grocery store or even robs a bank, is the police officer going to shoot the person in the middle of a crowd? I don't think so.
LARSON: (Voiceover) And some Californians now believe high-speed pursuits are exactly that, like shooting a gun into a crowd. Far from the sirens and the screeching tires, a prize fight in Irvine, California. The boxer in the red shorts, Ernesto Magdaleno, is about to win his 22nd professional fight.
(Police in high-speed pursuit of truck; boxing match)
Unidentified Boxing Commentator: The winner by unanimous decision: Ernesto!
(Boxer with arm being raised by referee)
LARSON: (Voiceover) But in three days time, Magdaleno and his family would witness their first high-speed police pursuit, and they would join others who question whether catching the bad guys is always worth the risk.
(Photograph of Ernesto Magdaleno and family)
Ms. CARRIE MAGDALENO: We were a nice, normal family going to a barbecue. We were just doing what we were supposed to be doing.
LARSON: (Voiceover) New Year's Eve day. The Magdaleno family is driving down Newland Street in Huntington Beach, California at 2:00 in the afternoon. Ernesto Magdaleno is behind the wheel.
(Blurred view of side of road as seen from moving car)
LARSON: But two miles away at this gas station, police say an attempted burglary was going on. Two suspects were apparently trying to steal camera equipment from a car. Caught in the act, they made a break for it. Police were just a couple of blocks away, and the chase was on.
(Voiceover) A minute later, the Magdaleno family approaches the intersection at Edinger Avenue. Carrie Magdaleno, Ernesto's wife:
(Traffic on road; Edinger Avenue street sign)
Ms. MAGDALENO: I don't remember if we were stopped at the light or if we had the green. But I heard Ernest make a comment like, `Oh no,' and turn. And I turned my head and say a white flash.
LARSON: (Voiceover) Two-year-old Joshua breaks his leg, six-year-old Samantha cracks her skull. Carrie finds her husband on the pavement.
(Photo of Joshua; photo of Samantha; Photo of Ernesto; crash wreckage)
Ms. MAGDALENO: He couldn't move. He was trying to talk. He couldn't talk to me. And I told him that he was hurt bad and he wouldn't make it. So he had to listen to me. And I told him how much we loved him and we would be OK. I talked to him until he died.
LARSON: (Voiceover) A tragic, undeserved death. But nationally, not all that uncommon. Deadly pursuits occur most often in states with lots of cars, like Illinois, Florida and Texas. But the leader, by far, is California, where last year there were more than 7,000 police chases. Two-hundred ninety-four innocent people, many of them bystanders, were injured. Twenty-one innocent people, like Ernesto Magdaleno were killed.
(Photo of Magdaleno family; wrecked car; map of United states with Illinois, Florida, Texas and California highlighted)
TEXT:
California 1995 7818 Police chases 294 Innocent injured 21 Innocent killed
LARSON: (Voiceover) And for what? In many cases, the answer might surprise you. Police initiated the chase that killed Magdaleno even though the suspects at the gas station decided to drop the camera equipment and run away. His brother says Ernesto died for a camera that was never even taken.
(Boxer punching boxing bag; photo of Ernesto in boxing gear; sign painted by Ernesto's children that says "Love you daddy. Love, Sam and Josh"; roadway)
Mr. JOE MAGDALENO (Ernesto's Brother) I just have trouble with the fact--the circumstances of how it occurred and why it occurred. I--I don't know. I don't know why it happened.
LARSON: (Voiceover) So what, you may be asking, were the police supposed to do? Let the guy go? According to criminologist Jeff Alford:
(Police at scene of car wreck)
Mr. ALFORD: For the time being, yes. For the time being, let them go. Good police work should be able to find out who they are.
(Voiceover) If you have a license plate or a partial plate, if you have some type of identification, that's how most criminals are caught.
(High-speed police chase)
LARSON: (Voiceover) But many police argue that while a chase may start for something minor like a broken tail-light, the reason the suspect runs is because they're guilty of something more serious: a felony like a rape or a murder. California Highway Patrol Commissioner Dwight Helmick:
(Police chase; body being covered by blanket; paramedics with injured person on stretcher)
Mr. DWIGHT HELMICK: The numbers are somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 to 72 percent, when we actually get that person stopped, they are wanted for a variety of other violations, they're transporting drugs, they're doing felony-type offenses.
LARSON: (Voiceover) According to the patrol's own statistics, of all the suspects they chase and catch in California, 74 percent turn out to be felons. Sounds like a good reason to chase, right? But DATELINE found that in more than half those cases, the worst thing the suspects were ever charged with was wreckless driving from the chase itself. And in most of the other cases, the worst charge was car theft. Only 15 percent were ever charged with violent felonies like rape, robbery or murder. After all of these dangerous chases, the overwhelming majority, almost nine out of 10, are not violent felonies at all, like Commissioner Helmick would like you to believe.
(California Pursuit Suspects Charges graph showing percentages of charges)
LARSON: At what point does the cost of finding out whether or not that guy with the broken tail-light is actually a felon just get to be to high?
Mr. HELMICK: I'll tell you when the cost is too high: when in retrospect, someone gets hurt. We don't have to wrestle with an answer if the person that's violating the law would simply do what the law says and pull over and stop.
LARSON: This is the real world. That's not going to happen. People are going to run. They always have.
Mr. HELMICK: Not only is it the real world, some of the people that we don't stop in their pursuit, they're going to go on and they're going to kill other people also. That's the real world.
LARSON: (Voiceover) But in the real world, the most spectacular chases often result from the most trivial reasons.
(Chases as seen from helicopter)
Unidentified Reporter #2: (Describing chase) ...just see the line-up of the police vehicles that are all in the--in the pursuit.
(Long line of police vehicles in pursuit of truck)
LARSON: Five-fifty PM, June 19th, 1995. Police are chasing an unknown suspect driving a white truck.
(Police chasing truck)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) It's almost l--a game of cat and mouse right now.
(Police vehicles pursuing truck)
LARSON: (Voiceover) The chase will take police through 18 cities, last almost two and a half hours and be carried live on Los Angeles television.
(Police vehicles chasing truck on freeway)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) Now you can see them just kind of moving up.
(Police pursuing truck)
LARSON: (Voiceover) At one point, the truck gets stuck in an alleyway and police slash its tires.
(Footage of police in pursuit of truck)
Officer RUSS WILLIAMSON (Burbank Police Department): I moved over to one side of the truck and I had a folding truck and I popped two of the tires in the rear.
LARSON: (Voiceover) But unbelievably, the truck escapes, driving on its rims, its roof ripped.
(Police pursuing truck on freeway)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) The way this vehicle is, the condition of it, I--I'm expecting that it won't last too much longer, but then again...
(Police pursuing truck on freeway)
LARSON: (Voiceover) Police shoot out its remaining back tires and finally risk ramming the truck.
(Police car ramming into truck)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) The suspect definitely has a will to get away.
(Police ramming truck to force it to stop)
LARSON: (Voiceover) After two hours and 20 minutes, the chase is over.
(Truck being forced to stop and being surrounded by police cars)
Reporter #2: (Describing chase) ...matter of just surrounding this--this vehicle as quickly as possible as you see the officers doing right now, pulling their guns.
(Police surrounding truck and drawing guns)
LARSON: (Voiceover) So why was the suspect running? He did have a criminal record but he was not wanted for anything. Police just wanted to warn him he was driving his truck the wrong way down a one-way street. Nonetheless, police charged him with 10 felonies, all resulting from the chase. He's now serving six years in a federal prison.
(Police photo of suspect in chase; police pulling suspect out of truck; police and traffic on street; police car hauling suspect away)
Mr. ALFORD: There are a lot of people who run simply because they're scared. It could be that they're running away from a crime scene. It could be that they're just scared of--of getting another ticket.
LARSON: That's why far from California, police in other states have sharply cut back on their number of high-speed pursuits. They have re-examined why they give chase in the first place.
(Voiceover) In Baltimore, police have a no-pursuit policy--no car chases allowed for any reason. In the Tampa Bay area, police must first consider the originating offense, why they tried to pull the suspect over in the first place, before a pursuit can begin. And in Miami, police must have evidence that a violent felony has been committed before they can chase. Not so in California, where despite 21 innocent people being killed last year, the highway patrol has resisted public efforts to bring chase policy here in line with cities like Miami.
(Police car being driven down street; police chasing vehicle; car being driven down street; crash scene)
Mr. HELMICK: They have the right to have their own policy. I personally differ with that particular policy.
(Voiceover) I am for one that believes that--that if in fact you don't apprehend those individuals, we will lose control.
(Police with guns pointed at suspect in high-speed chase; police officer escorting handcuffed man to squad car)
Mr. HELMICK: And I just think that--that's our job and I think that's the--what we're doing and I think it's right.
LARSON: (Voiceover) The highway patrol says its officers are highly trained to handle high-speed chases: both the driving and the split-second decision making. Helmick believes tighter regulations would just make matters worse.
(Patrol car being driven on training course; Larson and Helmick)
Mr. HELMICK: You put a particular policy that the maximum speed should never be more than 100 miles an hour, and then you watch what happens if an officer happens to go 101 miles an hour. By breaking the policy, all the sudden in court we've got some bright attorney saying, `Look here. You even broke your own policy. Guilty by default.'
LARSON: (Voiceover) In fact, Carrie Magdaleno is suing police, because she says they violated their own policy. She claims the pursuing officer did not turn on his siren to warn her husband of the chase.
(Carrie Magdaleno; court papers)
Ms. MAGDALENO: It was his time. I just know that God needed him for some reason.
LARSON: (Voiceover) It makes sense the debate whether police should give up the chase would be most heated in California...
(Police pursuing car on interstate)
Unidentified Reporter #3: (Describing chase) This is getting to be a very familiar sight around here: another wild freeway chase in the south...
(Car on interstate fishtailing and slamming into guard rail)
LARSON: (Voiceover) ...where there are more cars than any other state, where there's a lot of room to run, and where it seems as soon as one chase ends...
(Motorcycle weaving in and out of traffic on interstate)
Unidentified Reporter #4: (Watching chase) Whoa! What just happened?
(Motorcycle slamming into trailer of truck)
LARSON: (Voiceover) ...another begins.
(Police pursuing car)
PHILLIPS: The Fountain Valley Police Department told DATELINE it has no comment on the Magdaleno lawsuit. In the meantime, some police forces have developed high-tech tools to try and end high-speed pursuits earlier and safer. One example: a device called the Road Patriot, a rocket-powered sled that slides under a car and electronically disables the engine.
G
Guest
Todd
It's interesting that you and many others feel that the police cause the chase. I have never in my ten years of experience seen a police officer chase someone who doesn't run first.
As far as the other methods you refer to of catching people who flee the police, what are they? The helicopter is the best alternative that I know of and the criminal still runs from that, police cars still travel at a high rate of speed, and crashes are still the common way of terminating the pursuit. Cameras kinda work, but as soon as you start getting tickets mailed to you for what your friends or family members did in your vehicle, you will be the first to complain. So, what do you suggest? I am interested.
As far as "WAKE UP!! If the police don't chase, then EVERYBODY runs", everybody may be wrong. There might be one or two people in this country that wouldn't run.
Look at history, look at what people have done the few times police have tried to strike. Riots break out. Once people believe the police aren't there, law and order breaks down very quickly. The same would be true if there were no pursuits. Tons of people would run. And think about it for a second, would people run slower because the police weren't chasing. No, of course not. They are still going to go as fast as they can to get away as quickly as possible. Now, if they weren't being chased the distance they would be driving like an idiot would be less. But if a lot more people did these short runs, would we as the public be any safer?
Most traffic violators do not run from the police. I have never entered into a pursuit believing that the only reason someone was running was to avoid a ticket. And most times I was right. There was another more serious reason the person fled.
Florida a few years back passed a law in the right direction. They made it a felony to flee the police at high speeds. This is important because in Florida if someone is seriously harmed or killed during the commision of a felony, the offender is charged with the responsibilty and the appropriate crime. Lets hold the idiot that runs from the police responsible for wha THEY cause.
I am all for an answer to this problem that eliminates the risk to human life, but currently chasing appears to be the best answer.
It's interesting that you and many others feel that the police cause the chase. I have never in my ten years of experience seen a police officer chase someone who doesn't run first.
As far as the other methods you refer to of catching people who flee the police, what are they? The helicopter is the best alternative that I know of and the criminal still runs from that, police cars still travel at a high rate of speed, and crashes are still the common way of terminating the pursuit. Cameras kinda work, but as soon as you start getting tickets mailed to you for what your friends or family members did in your vehicle, you will be the first to complain. So, what do you suggest? I am interested.
As far as "WAKE UP!! If the police don't chase, then EVERYBODY runs", everybody may be wrong. There might be one or two people in this country that wouldn't run.
Look at history, look at what people have done the few times police have tried to strike. Riots break out. Once people believe the police aren't there, law and order breaks down very quickly. The same would be true if there were no pursuits. Tons of people would run. And think about it for a second, would people run slower because the police weren't chasing. No, of course not. They are still going to go as fast as they can to get away as quickly as possible. Now, if they weren't being chased the distance they would be driving like an idiot would be less. But if a lot more people did these short runs, would we as the public be any safer? Most traffic violators do not run from the police. I have never entered into a pursuit believing that the only reason someone was running was to avoid a ticket. And most times I was right. There was another more serious reason the person fled.
Florida a few years back passed a law in the right direction. They made it a felony to flee the police at high speeds. This is important because in Florida if someone is seriously harmed or killed during the commision of a felony, the offender is charged with the responsibilty and the appropriate crime. Lets hold the idiot that runs from the police responsible for wha THEY cause.
I am all for an answer to this problem that eliminates the risk to human life, but currently chasing appears to be the best answer.
OB_suiciderider
Registered
I saw that story on television. On the Magdaleno case it was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum with the widow. It was established and proven that the F UC K ING sugar chasing a couple of kids in city traffic at high speeds did not illuminate his lights and sound the siren. It is painfully apparant that many of these police personnel do not exercise common sense and use the tools available to them. Especially proven tools like the camera and the helicoptor mentioned.
I don't want to be on film breaking the law. That is definitely a deterrant as well as a safety/court tool for the person being stopped and the officer.
I don't want to be on film breaking the law. That is definitely a deterrant as well as a safety/court tool for the person being stopped and the officer.
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