Russia and Ukraine

[TallTom]

Ukrainian forces destroy convoy of 56 Chechen tanks, kill general near Kyiv – report

The column was reportedly deployed by Russia to 'capture and kill' Ukraine's leaders, including President Zelensky, using infamous 'deck of cards' system

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Zerks]

We went there for our protection against terrorism from people like the Taliban. We did that and while it is an issue it is certainly not the problem it was. This is what people don't get - it was never our mission to build a new Afghanistan. Things just got out of control politically because none of the presidents were willing to leave and Afghanistan took the position let's just let the US be our army/police force so we don't have to do it. Leaving there was always going to be a mess, especially after Trump negotiated essentially an unconditional surrender. Biden just said I'll take the hit for this (which he has said publically he will not pass this buck). I believe this is in no small part because his son fought there. It is a shame that we could not set up a sustainable civilized society in Afghanistan, but we never could do that because the Afghans are the only ones who can.

Yeah, right... we couldn't even destroy 85 billion dollars worth of military equipment that the Taliban started to use and also resell small arms on the street very quickly.

 

[Bumblebee]

We did not lose the war, if one can call it that.

We were mistaken and lost the novel idea of implementing Western values and a Democratic Government in a culture which understands only autocracy, and lives by totally different values compared to ours.

In short, we attempted to install a Western style government in the Middle East which will never succeed, no matter how strong our military and how long we stay.

I never said it was a war....but we lost, the people of Afghanistan lost as well.

Attempting to instill western ideology in these countries has never ended well, never has.

We as NATO trained a military and police force only to see them melt away and hand over the equipment meant to protect them against their enemies to the Taliban....(who although don't celebrate Christmas must have thought it was Christmas morning).

 

[Bumblebee]

We went there for our protection against terrorism from people like the Taliban. We did that and while it is an issue it is certainly not the problem it was. This is what people don't get - it was never our mission to build a new Afghanistan. Things just got out of control politically because none of the presidents were willing to leave and Afghanistan took the position let's just let the US be our army/police force so we don't have to do it. Leaving there was always going to be a mess, especially after Trump negotiated essentially an unconditional surrender. Biden just said I'll take the hit for this (which he has said publically he will not pass this buck). I believe this is in no small part because his son fought there. It is a shame that we could not set up a sustainable civilized society in Afghanistan, but we never could do that because the Afghans are the only ones who can.

Actually, we went there to oust the Taliban who were training and harboring terrorist activities....Osama bin Laden was Al Qaeda not Taliban

Rebuilding Afghanistan was always in the mandate.....a puppet government was ready to go in before the last Taliban official left the capital.

The plan to train an effective military and police force was also part of the installation of this government.

We had to leave sometime but the thought that the ANA, ANP and inserted government would collapse so quickly and completely was lost to us.

Afghans operate in a tribal system where warlords rule, our western ideology has no place there.

 

[prg]

I know, I was there a few times...

We used very advanced technology to fight the Taliban and were not successful.....even when they were in their strongholds we were unable to defeat them. There were conventional battles waged against the Taliban, it wasn't all insurgent warfare.

The west has been engaged in opponents such as the Taliban more than a conventional force....the first invasion of Iraq was the last time the US engaged a conventional force and a very weak, unsophisticated one at that.

It would be a whole other thing to engage an equally advanced and equipped force who are equipped with EW capabilities.

Unable to defeat not least because we were hamstrung by ridiculous Rules of Engagement.

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

Unable to defeat not least because we were hamstrung by ridiculous Rules of Engagement.

Ineffective maybe but ridiculous? How so?

 

[Bumblebee]

Unable to defeat not least because we were hamstrung by ridiculous Rules of Engagement.

Our ROEs weren't too bad...they were restrictive in the early years of being there but opened up.

 

[prg]

Ineffective maybe but ridiculous? How so?

Not least because Tally would take pot shots then put their weapon down. Our Rules of Engagement strictly prohibited any FCO being given. Officially, ha

 

[prg]

Our ROEs weren't too bad...they were restrictive in the early years of being there but opened up.

Same.
Some came up with 'work arounds'. Apparently. lol
But it Was ridiculous.

 

[prg]

Same.
Some came up with 'work arounds'. Apparently. lol
But it Was ridiculous.

Hey ho hey ho.. It's off to Ukraine we go.
Our Home Secretary has given her blessing.. Join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion/International Brigade.
No RoE to worry about there!
Some lads from The Circus donating their services freely

 

[Bumblebee]

Same.
Some came up with 'work arounds'. Apparently. lol
But it Was ridiculous.

When our mission shifted from Kabul to Kandahar, they kept the same ROEs even though our scope of operations changed and we went to a warfighting force...that was ridiculous....

 

[Bumblebee]

Hey ho hey ho.. It's off to Ukraine we go.
Our Home Secretary has given her blessing.. Join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion/International Brigade.
No RoE to worry about there!
Some lads from The Circus donating their services freely

I'll bet for the right price, they get all kinds of takers....

I have a friend who has a team which operates on the "fringe" for the right price.

 

[mark3evo]

Hey ho hey ho.. It's off to Ukraine we go.
Our Home Secretary has given her blessing.. Join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion/International Brigade.
No RoE to worry about there!
Some lads from The Circus donating their services freely

if your talking about UK

they did say this morning that should only be with individuals who were ex-military

otherwise just join the regular UK forces and get training

 

[mark3evo]

This was on the BBC website, shows the intability of Putin, who thinks if Russia ceased to exist so the world should not either..

In a 2018 documentary, President Putin commented that "…if someone decides to annihilate Russia, we have the legal right to respond. Yes, it will be a catastrophe for humanity and for the world. But I'm a citizen of Russia and its head of state. Why do we need a world without Russia in it?"
Fast forward to 2022. Putin has launched a full-scale war against Ukraine, but the Ukrainian armed forces are putting up stiff resistance; Western nations have - to the Kremlin's surprise - united to impose potentially crippling economic and financial sanctions against Moscow. The very existence of the Putin system may have been put in doubt.
"Putin's in a tight spot," believes Moscow-based defence analyst Pavel Felgenhauer. "He doesn't have many options left, once the West freezes the assets of the Russian Central bank and Russia's financial system actually implodes. That will make the system unworkable.
"One option for him is to cut gas supplies to Europe, hoping that will make the Europeans climb down. Another option is to explode a nuclear weapon somewhere over the North Sea between Britain and Denmark and see what happens."

If Vladimir Putin did choose a nuclear option, would anyone in his close circle try to dissuade him? Or stop him?
"Russia's political elites are never with the people," says Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. "They always take the side of the ruler."
And in Vladimir Putin's Russia the ruler is all-powerful. This is a country with few checks and balances; it's the Kremlin that calls the shots.
"No one is ready to stand up to Putin," says Pavel Felgenhauer. "We're in a dangerous spot."

 

[fallenarch]

That is pretty much what I was thinking but it's interesting to have it from a source that actually knows what they are talking about! haha. I think the plan was to go into Ukraine in Trump's second term, it's possible Putin even waited for the election to be over to go in. Without the US, NATO has no teeth and Trump already disintegrated the NATO alliance. So when Trump lost, I'm sure Putin was incensed. He was probably getting the same propaganda a lot of Americans were getting saying Trump would win in a landslide. So now Putin has to decide if he can take advantage of a sleepy Biden. I think Putin had no dreams of how quickly NATO snapped to attention when Biden called. It's actually unprecedented to have all those countries in lockstep even in the face of economic disasters on fuel costs.

So it's pretty clear Putin made a huge miscalculation going into Ukraine. A month ago, Putin would have chuckled (does he laugh?) if you told him he would be fighting for his own political life. But that's where we are and he is acting more and more unhinged. So, this gets more and more dangerous.

 

[TallTom]

This was on the BBC website, shows the intability of Putin, who thinks if Russia ceased to exist so the world should not either..

In a 2018 documentary, President Putin commented that "…if someone decides to annihilate Russia, we have the legal right to respond. Yes, it will be a catastrophe for humanity and for the world. But I'm a citizen of Russia and its head of state. Why do we need a world without Russia in it?"
Fast forward to 2022. Putin has launched a full-scale war against Ukraine, but the Ukrainian armed forces are putting up stiff resistance; Western nations have - to the Kremlin's surprise - united to impose potentially crippling economic and financial sanctions against Moscow. The very existence of the Putin system may have been put in doubt.
"Putin's in a tight spot," believes Moscow-based defence analyst Pavel Felgenhauer. "He doesn't have many options left, once the West freezes the assets of the Russian Central bank and Russia's financial system actually implodes. That will make the system unworkable.
"One option for him is to cut gas supplies to Europe, hoping that will make the Europeans climb down. Another option is to explode a nuclear weapon somewhere over the North Sea between Britain and Denmark and see what happens."

If Vladimir Putin did choose a nuclear option, would anyone in his close circle try to dissuade him? Or stop him?
"Russia's political elites are never with the people," says Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. "They always take the side of the ruler."
And in Vladimir Putin's Russia the ruler is all-powerful. This is a country with few checks and balances; it's the Kremlin that calls the shots.
"No one is ready to stand up to Putin," says Pavel Felgenhauer. "We're in a dangerous spot."

I don't give much serious thought to his nuclear option. Because I think it's doubtful as an option.

He has a few more options. He can choke off Ukraine's economy in retaliation for the sanctions. Put pain on them until sanctions are lifted. Essentially hostage negotiations.

He can agree to pull back, while keeping the "independent regions" as new Russian territory. It's a small win for a week of military effort. And both sides can reach compromise.

But I'd bet money that when this settles, Ukraine will have the nicest newest most beautiful military bases to house all the brand new state of the art military might, right on the back porch of Moscow. Cementing them firmly in not only NATO, but now Ukraine can finally have some teeth as a major European force right there on the Russian border.

 

[Bumblebee]

I don't give much serious thought to his nuclear option. Because I think it's doubtful as an option.

He has a few more options. He can choke off Ukraine's economy in retaliation for the sanctions. Put pain on them until sanctions are lifted. Essentially hostage negotiations.

He can agree to pull back, while keeping the "independent regions" as new Russian territory. It's a small win for a week of military effort. And both sides can reach compromise.

But I'd bet money that when this settles, Ukraine will have the nicest newest most beautiful military bases to house all the brand new state of the art military might, right on the back porch of Moscow. Cementing them firmly in not only NATO, but now Ukraine can finally have some teeth as a major European force right there on the Russian border.

For some reason, Putin has paused to allow for talks between Ukraine and Russian diplomats....maybe Putin is seeing the world looking down on him and re-thinking his strategy.....

It could go the other way...the way Chauvin put more pressure on the neck of Floyd as a response to the crowd jeering him to let Floyd up....Putin might react in that manner and the more the west puts pressure on him the more determined he will get...

Hopefully this can be resolved in a peaceful manner and go the route you suggest.....

 

[TallTom]

For some reason, Putin has paused to allow for talks between Ukraine and Russian diplomats....maybe Putin is seeing the world looking down on him and re-thinking his strategy.....

It could go the other way...the way Chauvin put more pressure on the neck of Floyd as a response to the crowd jeering him to let Floyd up....Putin might react in that manner and the more the west puts pressure on him the more determined he will get...

Hopefully this can be resolved in a peaceful manner and go the route you suggest.....

Putin has sent in the 3rd string players. He hasn't even sent in his best forces. Thus far they seem to be like the national guard weekend warriors.

He has a lot more pressure he hasn't even begun to apply.

What is interesting is how poorly he has logistically supported them. Running out of gas this early in, is pretty inexcusable as a leader.

 

[jellyrug]

For some reason, Putin has paused to allow for talks between Ukraine and Russian diplomats....maybe Putin is seeing the world looking down on him and re-thinking his strategy.....

It could go the other way...the way Chauvin put more pressure on the neck of Floyd as a response to the crowd jeering him to let Floyd up....Putin might react in that manner and the more the west puts pressure on him the more determined he will get...

Hopefully this can be resolved in a peaceful manner and go the route you suggest.....

Putin is pretty unpredictable.
In the back of his mind, he must know that should Ukraine, Finland, Sweden and others join NATO, Russia will end up with an internal revolution, for freedom. That would be the end of him, his control and he may even be prosecuted, by his own people.
He has said a few times, that a world without Russia in it, might as well be world which no longer exists.
Won’t be surprised if he drops a nuke somewhere to up the ante and test the reaction.

 

[Bumblebee]

Putin has sent in the 3rd string players. He hasn't even sent in his best forces. Thus far they seem to be like the national guard weekend warriors.

He has a lot more pressure he hasn't even begun to apply.

What is interesting is how poorly he has logistically supported them. Running out of gas this early in, is pretty inexcusable as a leader.

I've read reports many of them are conscripts.....definitely not the A team....and all old equipment.

It was mentioned on here he sent these in as fodder to expend the western weapon systems before he sends in his crack troops to mop up, that does make sense. I just read that Belarus is sending troops in as well....I don't know how good they are.