Russia and Ukraine

Well here in Europe things are going differently than you might be told in the media. Just as surely some things in the USA are very different from what our inaccurate mainstream media tells us. But the fact is that many years ago the Russians were promised that they would not expand NATO to the east. The aggressive recruitment of states for the European Union should also stop. But the EU is trying to drastically increase its influence, military exercises are being held near the Russians and the strongman of Russia is expected to simply look on and stand there like a wimp in front of his people?

The EU is anything but good, old, mendacious women and men who only care about power and not about the thing itself. EU means peace, it was always said. But now even small Germany is threatening the consequences. WE GERMANS??? We threaten Russia? We condemn Russia? We Germans in particular should keep our feet still. I'm anything but a friend of the Russians, I grew up in the GDR, I know what dictatorship is, I know what it's like to live under the Russian regime. But let's not forget that the only mistake the Russians made was getting ambushed twice! Once by Napoleon, he marched in to protect the borders of Paris (meaning ironically) and once you just allowed yourself to be attacked by the good Germans. Despite all dislike, one should perhaps try to understand why the Russians think the way they do. Putin is a nasty little dictator...although we often joke about "the last real man on earth" when he's shirtless on horseback, laughing so heartily on a conference call with Grandpa Biden and thinking to himself "But that old grandpa is funny," or shows himself as a fighter in uniform. And the fact that he understands the Germans is because he lived here for a long time as a STASI officer. If the West or the EU were really interested in helping Ukraine and to improve relations with Russia, that would be easy. One could use Ukraine as a mediator. Ukraine is likely to trade with Russia, but also with the EU, prosperity and economy would set in. Of course one would also have to do something about the massive corruption in the Urkaine that prevails there. But no! The EU says "if you want to go to the EU then only trade with us". The Russian says "Moooment, it was said at the time, no eastward enlargement of the EU". The land serves as a pawn sacrifice!

And the US....well no one thinks they want war, but end North Stream 2 would be in the interest of US foreign trade. Money, power and influence of old men and women, that's always what prevents progress. It's a shame that such an incompetent foreign minister as our German Anna Lena Bärbock is involved in something like this. A woman who has lied about everything on her resume and is so inept that even Kermit the Frog seems more competent. And the Russians should have respect for that?

Greetz RR
 
NATO is a vessel used quite a bit especially by the US....

Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Libya were all under NATO (Bosnia was also under the UN for a while as well)
NATO was created (in the late 1940s, at the height of the Cold War tensions) to contain Russia, so obviously they don't want NATO in their back door. NATO is interesting. They have a lot of standards and systems integration so they can field a pretty formidable force. You've all heard of the NATO round, but it's also tanks and planes. There is an integrated theater system that basically puts every plane tank or other asset on a viewing screen so they can maintain order even in a serious battle. The F-35 was developed to be a NATO fighter and all of the members had to buy some. Remember when Trump was saying NATO members weren't paying their share? They are supposed to spend 2% of GDP on NATO weapons (I think). So while NATO may cost the US a lot of money, it is a win-fall for the military-industrial complex.

The expansion of NATO countries is to isolate Russia and squeeze it into submission. The thought being to keep order by creating a bigger team. The problem is military power is compromised when everyone has a piece of it to give away. And part of NATO is the "an attack on a NATO member is an attack on all NATO members" which has drawn us into some tense situations we really don't want to be in. To this date, the collective power of NATO has only been called upon once and that was by the US after 9-11.

NATO's North American Command is located here in Norfolk, VA.
 
What does Russia gain if they take over Ukrain?
What is the end-game in all of this?
Russian expansion....the old Soviet Union held a lot of ground and with it's fall. it shrunk quite a bit....the Russians think the Ukraine is it's own backyard...they are in Crimea and won't give that up..

They have been paying and supporting mercenaries to wage a border war with the Ukraine for years t destabilize the area....
 
Well here in Europe things are going differently than you might be told in the media. Just as surely some things in the USA are very different from what our inaccurate mainstream media tells us. But the fact is that many years ago the Russians were promised that they would not expand NATO to the east. The aggressive recruitment of states for the European Union should also stop. But the EU is trying to drastically increase its influence, military exercises are being held near the Russians and the strongman of Russia is expected to simply look on and stand there like a wimp in front of his people?

The EU is anything but good, old, mendacious women and men who only care about power and not about the thing itself. EU means peace, it was always said. But now even small Germany is threatening the consequences. WE GERMANS??? We threaten Russia? We condemn Russia? We Germans in particular should keep our feet still. I'm anything but a friend of the Russians, I grew up in the GDR, I know what dictatorship is, I know what it's like to live under the Russian regime. But let's not forget that the only mistake the Russians made was getting ambushed twice! Once by Napoleon, he marched in to protect the borders of Paris (meaning ironically) and once you just allowed yourself to be attacked by the good Germans. Despite all dislike, one should perhaps try to understand why the Russians think the way they do. Putin is a nasty little dictator...although we often joke about "the last real man on earth" when he's shirtless on horseback, laughing so heartily on a conference call with Grandpa Biden and thinking to himself "But that old grandpa is funny," or shows himself as a fighter in uniform. And the fact that he understands the Germans is because he lived here for a long time as a STASI officer. If the West or the EU were really interested in helping Ukraine and to improve relations with Russia, that would be easy. One could use Ukraine as a mediator. Ukraine is likely to trade with Russia, but also with the EU, prosperity and economy would set in. Of course one would also have to do something about the massive corruption in the Urkaine that prevails there. But no! The EU says "if you want to go to the EU then only trade with us". The Russian says "Moooment, it was said at the time, no eastward enlargement of the EU". The land serves as a pawn sacrifice!

And the US....well no one thinks they want war, but end North Stream 2 would be in the interest of US foreign trade. Money, power and influence of old men and women, that's always what prevents progress. It's a shame that such an incompetent foreign minister as our German Anna Lena Bärbock is involved in something like this. A woman who has lied about everything on her resume and is so inept that even Kermit the Frog seems more competent. And the Russians should have respect for that?

Greetz RR
We shouldn't trek down that memory lane too far..WW2 Germany started that war with Russia and if it weren't for the western powers, Germany would have been a Soviet state completely.

Politics are a tricky and diluted business.....they create conflicts and wars better than religion does...
 
NATO was created (in the late 1940s, at the height of the Cold War tensions) to contain Russia, so obviously they don't want NATO in their back door. NATO is interesting. They have a lot of standards and systems integration so they can field a pretty formidable force. You've all heard of the NATO round, but it's also tanks and planes. There is an integrated theater system that basically puts every plane tank or other asset on a viewing screen so they can maintain order even in a serious battle. The F-35 was developed to be a NATO fighter and all of the members had to buy some. Remember when Trump was saying NATO members weren't paying their share? They are supposed to spend 2% of GDP on NATO weapons (I think). So while NATO may cost the US a lot of money, it is a win-fall for the military-industrial complex.

The expansion of NATO countries is to isolate Russia and squeeze it into submission. The thought being to keep order by creating a bigger team. The problem is military power is compromised when everyone has a piece of it to give away. And part of NATO is the "an attack on a NATO member is an attack on all NATO members" which has drawn us into some tense situations we really don't want to be in. To this date, the collective power of NATO has only been called upon once and that was by the US after 9-11.

NATO's North American Command is located here in Norfolk, VA.
Actually NATO was called into force during Bosnia and Kosovo long before 9-11
 
Actually NATO was called into force during Bosnia and Kosovo long before 9-11
NATO has been used in many conflicts since its 1949 inception. I was referring to Article Five:

"Critics have long said that NATO is but a security collective based more on theory than action. But on Sept. 11, 2001, the organization is called to action after the United States comes under a series of unexpected, deadly attacks on its own territory. For the first time in its history, NATO members invoke Article Five and confirm that an attack on one member is an attack on all, as heard in this CBC Television report. "

I was referring to this but phrased my post lazily. What can I say, it was late...
 
NATO has been used in many conflicts since its 1949 inception. I was referring to Article Five:

"Critics have long said that NATO is but a security collective based more on theory than action. But on Sept. 11, 2001, the organization is called to action after the United States comes under a series of unexpected, deadly attacks on its own territory. For the first time in its history, NATO members invoke Article Five and confirm that an attack on one member is an attack on all, as heard in this CBC Television report. "

I was referring to this but phrased my post lazily. What can I say, it was late...
Right, they went into Bosnia and Kosovo under non-article 5......I'm tracking now.
 
Once it was clear Germany was going to fall in WW2 Roosevelt and Churchill became very distrusting of Stalin. Both felt Russia wanted to fill in the land they had pushed Germany out of. Remember also that Russia was communist, and as capitalists, the western powers felt Russia was as big a menace as Hitler to their vision for the world. Many say Truman dropped the Atomic bomb to scare Russia. The Japanese surrender was all but assured at the time the bombs were dropped. Further, the firebombing of Japanese cities was just as damaging. Truman himself was quoted as saying "his biggest fear in dropping the bomb was that it would not go off", exposing to Russia that we didn't have the rumored super-weapon. So even then there was a fundamental clash of ideologies that still exists.
 
They are the troops who's parent countries are members of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization)....your former president was trying to pull the US out of NATO...which would have been a disaster for both the US and NATO

The UN is a whole other organization...

Russia doesn't want Ukraine to become a member as they don't want a NATO country for a neighbor...this is the 'nuts and bolts' of why Russia is saber rattling..

He pulled out because the U.S. was the $$ payout way more. In 2014 it was agreed that each member pay 2% of their GDP into the "kitty".

His complaint was the U.S. was paying twice that, while many others didn't pay the agreed to minimum.

Note: There were others that were paying above the 2% besides the U.S.

His biggest complaint was over Germany's shortcoming.

Further. We had U.S. made hardware (mostly aircraft) that had to be supported by U.S. troops. And he didn't like the fact that the smaller less developed countries were not contributing troops, facilities and logistics. They simply wanted NATO protection. And some financial gravy.
 
He pulled out because the U.S. was the $$ payout way more. In 2014 it was agreed that each member pay 2% of their GDP into the "kitty".

His complaint was the U.S. was paying twice that, while many others didn't pay the agreed to minimum.

Note: There were others that were paying above the 2% besides the U.S.

His biggest complaint was over Germany's shortcoming.

Further. We had U.S. made hardware (mostly aircraft) that had to be supported by U.S. troops. And he didn't like the fact that the smaller less developed countries were not contributing troops, facilities and logistics. They simply wanted NATO protection. And some financial gravy.
Still, pulling out of NATO would have been a disaster for both the US and NATO.

No country can stand alone in today's climate for long....especially a superpower directly in the sights of it's enemies...
 
Once it was clear Germany was going to fall in WW2 Roosevelt and Churchill became very distrusting of Stalin. Both felt Russia wanted to fill in the land they had pushed Germany out of. Remember also that Russia was communist, and as capitalists, the western powers felt Russia was as big a menace as Hitler to their vision for the world. Many say Truman dropped the Atomic bomb to scare Russia. The Japanese surrender was all but assured at the time the bombs were dropped. Further, the firebombing of Japanese cities was just as damaging. Truman himself was quoted as saying "his biggest fear in dropping the bomb was that it would not go off", exposing to Russia that we didn't have the rumored super-weapon. So even then there was a fundamental clash of ideologies that still exists.
There was even talk of the former leader of WW2 Germany asking the allied forces to join his forces in neutralizing Russia....

I think they dropped the A bomb in Japan to avoid a ground invasion which would have cost millions of lives (mainly allied forces) as the Japanese forces turned Japan into a defenders' paradise.
 
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Headlines like this have new Cold War written all over them...

It will be open season for the Russians to openly provide complex weapon platforms to the enemies of the west...(this is already being done but more covertly).

 
I did a little more reading into this and from a strategic perspective it seems the west might be painting the Russians into a corner by providing Ukraine with weapon systems.

It kind of appears Russia was posturing to try and intimidate the Ukraine from being drafted into NATO....it looks as though they figured to destabilize the area would dissuade NATO from allowing Ukraine in.

Now that the west has taken a hand, the game of chicken has come...what will Russia do? Just like @Rubberrabbit said, Putin isn't going to stand there with his hat in his hand appearing weak in front of his citizens.....in this sense, an invasion is imminent.

One thing Trump had going for him, the world tyrants wasn't sure just how nuts he was and if he'd blow them up or not....he had that "twitchy eye."
 
I did a little more reading into this and from a strategic perspective it seems the west might be painting the Russians into a corner by providing Ukraine with weapon systems.

It kind of appears Russia was posturing to try and intimidate the Ukraine from being drafted into NATO....it looks as though they figured to destabilize the area would dissuade NATO from allowing Ukraine in.

Now that the west has taken a hand, the game of chicken has come...what will Russia do? Just like @Rubberrabbit said, Putin isn't going to stand there with his hat in his hand appearing weak in front of his citizens.....in this sense, an invasion is imminent.

One thing Trump had going for him, the world tyrants wasn't sure just how nuts he was and if he'd blow them up or not....he had that "twitchy eye."
You might call it nuts. But it seemed to work. N Korea never launched another middle after his efforts. Now they launch about monthly.

Whatever you want to say about how he death with Putin, seemed to work. He got Israel back to working with us

So if that's nuts. Biden needs to being a better but
 
You might call it nuts. But it seemed to work. N Korea never launched another middle after his efforts. Now they launch about monthly.

Whatever you want to say about how he death with Putin, seemed to work. He got Israel back to working with us

So if that's nuts. Biden needs to being a better but
Twitchy eye lol. Love it
 
You might call it nuts. But it seemed to work. N Korea never launched another middle after his efforts. Now they launch about monthly.

Whatever you want to say about how he death with Putin, seemed to work. He got Israel back to working with us

So if that's nuts. Biden needs to being a better but
If you read my post, you'd see I thought it was a good thing the tyrants of the world viewed him in such a way....it made them think...
 
Well here in Europe things are going differently than you might be told in the media. Just as surely some things in the USA are very different from what our inaccurate mainstream media tells us. But the fact is that many years ago the Russians were promised that they would not expand NATO to the east. The aggressive recruitment of states for the European Union should also stop. But the EU is trying to drastically increase its influence, military exercises are being held near the Russians and the strongman of Russia is expected to simply look on and stand there like a wimp in front of his people?

The EU is anything but good, old, mendacious women and men who only care about power and not about the thing itself. EU means peace, it was always said. But now even small Germany is threatening the consequences. WE GERMANS??? We threaten Russia? We condemn Russia? We Germans in particular should keep our feet still. I'm anything but a friend of the Russians, I grew up in the GDR, I know what dictatorship is, I know what it's like to live under the Russian regime. But let's not forget that the only mistake the Russians made was getting ambushed twice! Once by Napoleon, he marched in to protect the borders of Paris (meaning ironically) and once you just allowed yourself to be attacked by the good Germans. Despite all dislike, one should perhaps try to understand why the Russians think the way they do. Putin is a nasty little dictator...although we often joke about "the last real man on earth" when he's shirtless on horseback, laughing so heartily on a conference call with Grandpa Biden and thinking to himself "But that old grandpa is funny," or shows himself as a fighter in uniform. And the fact that he understands the Germans is because he lived here for a long time as a STASI officer. If the West or the EU were really interested in helping Ukraine and to improve relations with Russia, that would be easy. One could use Ukraine as a mediator. Ukraine is likely to trade with Russia, but also with the EU, prosperity and economy would set in. Of course one would also have to do something about the massive corruption in the Urkaine that prevails there. But no! The EU says "if you want to go to the EU then only trade with us". The Russian says "Moooment, it was said at the time, no eastward enlargement of the EU". The land serves as a pawn sacrifice!

And the US....well no one thinks they want war, but end North Stream 2 would be in the interest of US foreign trade. Money, power and influence of old men and women, that's always what prevents progress. It's a shame that such an incompetent foreign minister as our German Anna Lena Bärbock is involved in something like this. A woman who has lied about everything on her resume and is so inept that even Kermit the Frog seems more competent. And the Russians should have respect for that?

Greetz RR
That is a very interesting perspective. Thanks for posting.

I spent a lot of time in Germany when I was young, from the 1980's onwards. Trained as a junior Engineer with Mercedes in Stuttgart and up to the mid 90's did a lot of business in Europe. In Germany visited Regensburg, Hamburg, Munich frequently. During those years up to 1995 I always thought Europe, especially Germany was much nicer, much more sophisticated and nicer to live in than the USA. Then I went back in 2016 for a six month assignment in Lubeck. Either I got old or the world has changed. Living in Europe today can no longer be compared to the USA, which is so much better in comparison. Walk through a park in Amsterdam, people are shooting up in public, lying sleeping on the ground. Same thing Oxford Street in London. In Lubeck, 65% of the population did not own cars.

In 2016, I had to run a factory in Lubeck for six months and prepare it to be sold. The technical skills were shocking compared to my experience as a youngster training in Germany.

I am not sure, maybe I have just gotten old and my perspectives have changed, or Europe has changed dramatically over the years.

I have family in Minden, Germany. They normally visit here in North Carolina once a year, being the highlight of their lives.
 
Still, pulling out of NATO would have been a disaster for both the US and NATO.

No country can stand alone in today's climate for long....especially a superpower directly in the sights of it's enemies...
That was also part of his posturing. He felt like despite our being the biggest payer with the most assets, he got little support from members. This wasn't new to his administration. He just had had enough of us dumping $$ into the world for diminishing returns.

I was in the EU in the 90s. More specifically Hungary and the Czechs.

The efforts leading up to their inclusion was how much $$ would we pour into airports, infrastructure etc. Just to be able to use them strategically. Many of the leaders were Russian holdouts. They became very rich joining our side. We have yet to see any of their assets be put to use for us. But they have world class airports now.
 
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