TallTom
Registered
Let's see, who did that Iran deal orginally?
And who didn't like it because it didn't stop them from developing weapons?
Hmmm.
Russia and Ukraine
- Thread starter Bumblebee
- Start date
And who didn't like it because it didn't stop them from developing weapons?
Hmmm.
What the right fails to realize about the Iran deal is this:
1. The world is aligned on this. Breaking the deal was undercutting our allies. Trump's main goal seems to have been to isolate the US. Look where we are in just 1 year after his term and NATO is essential.
2. We have a fair idea of what Iran is doing with the oversight in the deal. Can they cheat? Yes. But this is a level of oversight no amount of money spent spying could get us without the deal.
3. Why not hold them to some sort of deal? We can break the deal whenever we see fit, who would stop us? Further through our follies in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is little need for terror, they can just sit back and watch us dig our own graves. So it makes no sense to not have a deal.
4. Iran and whoever wants a nuke will eventually get one, so this is a matter of time. How much money and lives are we willing to expend putting this off?
5. Yes the deal may have ruffled some feathers around the world, but those are the people who want to use the US to support their projection of power. Another great reason to get off oil to the extent possible and get away from the cost of that chaos.
1. The world is aligned on this. Breaking the deal was undercutting our allies. Trump's main goal seems to have been to isolate the US. Look where we are in just 1 year after his term and NATO is essential.
2. We have a fair idea of what Iran is doing with the oversight in the deal. Can they cheat? Yes. But this is a level of oversight no amount of money spent spying could get us without the deal.
3. Why not hold them to some sort of deal? We can break the deal whenever we see fit, who would stop us? Further through our follies in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is little need for terror, they can just sit back and watch us dig our own graves. So it makes no sense to not have a deal.
4. Iran and whoever wants a nuke will eventually get one, so this is a matter of time. How much money and lives are we willing to expend putting this off?
5. Yes the deal may have ruffled some feathers around the world, but those are the people who want to use the US to support their projection of power. Another great reason to get off oil to the extent possible and get away from the cost of that chaos.
oops!
In a perfect world, that sounds plausible.
Then comes reality.
Iran used a lot of financing to build up the projection of their power across the Middle East, from Lebanon and Syria to Iraq and Yemen. The key to their success being a unique strategy of blending militant and state power, built in part on the model of Hezbollah in Lebanon. They destabilized the Middle East, promoted terrorism and the chief strategist was Qaussem Soleimani.
He was eliminated and the Iran threat as well as disfunction in the Middle East was somewhat normalized.
Can you remember Saudi Aramco being struck by missiles? How much do you know about Saudi Aramco? Do you know we have a city of Americans over there, some third generation?
Like it or not, that was one of Trump's achievements.
With the new Administration, we are simply empowering Iran to get back to what they do best. Promote terrorism. They are not our friends and will never be.
Below is a copy and paste of what we are dealing with here:
Despite its ongoing economic woes, today’s Iran has fashioned itself into one of the premier military and diplomatic powers in the Middle East—and Saudi Arabia’s principal rival for hegemony over the entire region. It has achieved this with a mix of policies—among them, deft diplomatic maneuvering; a tactical alliance with Vladimir Putin’s Russia; and the provision of arms, advice, and cash to Shi`a militias across a variety of countries. In the latter case, Iran has pioneered a seemingly unique strategy that combines insurgent and state power in a potent admixture—a strategy that is evident today in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen.
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^^^^
time.com
Inside a Saudi Arabian Oil Giant's American Oasis
Ayesha Malik photographs Dhahran, a 22.5 square mile compound built for American expat oil workers
So here is an innocent question.
If you were in Biden’s shoes, would you make it public knowledge, with a detailed list of exactly which weapons you are sending Ukraine?
I would not, make it known we are supporting Ukraine with defense equipment, but no more detail than that.
If you were in Biden’s shoes, would you make it public knowledge, with a detailed list of exactly which weapons you are sending Ukraine?
I would not, make it known we are supporting Ukraine with defense equipment, but no more detail than that.
mark3evo
Registered
peace talks in progress 5 key points 4 are easy to agree, Neutrality, no foreign forces allowed , Russian minority rights agreed etc etc
sticking point is Ukraine agreeing to signing over Crimea , Luhansk and Donestz provice.
When asked Turkish negotiator about Putin's state of mind saying he was .. calm, focused and in control
sticking point is Ukraine agreeing to signing over Crimea , Luhansk and Donestz provice.
When asked Turkish negotiator about Putin's state of mind saying he was .. calm, focused and in control
Agree totally.
Although I agree with Trump about getting the US out of all the tangled involvements everywhere, you can't just walk away clean. It's like we are the barrier between two reactive chemicals, walk away and they explode. The US has made a lot of mistakes over the years but we are still always the ones holding crazy at bay.
This is why Trump trying to destroy all of the constructs that have held the world together since the late 40s in only a couple of years was so damaging. The world has always looked to the US for stability. "A peaceful transfer of power" may sound like a tired cliche, it means that the power the world has invested in the US is safe. Trump shook that assumption to its foundation and his delusional insistence that he won is like a 9.5 earthquake around the world.
Make no mistake, Trump's signal that America was out of the world policing business was a go sign to authoritarians the world over. Don't get me wrong, Trump is not solely responsible for the eroding of trust in the US. But his destroying democracy has had the biggest impact.
This is why Trump trying to destroy all of the constructs that have held the world together since the late 40s in only a couple of years was so damaging. The world has always looked to the US for stability. "A peaceful transfer of power" may sound like a tired cliche, it means that the power the world has invested in the US is safe. Trump shook that assumption to its foundation and his delusional insistence that he won is like a 9.5 earthquake around the world.
Make no mistake, Trump's signal that America was out of the world policing business was a go sign to authoritarians the world over. Don't get me wrong, Trump is not solely responsible for the eroding of trust in the US. But his destroying democracy has had the biggest impact.
And following suit, trump unremarkably avoided any possibility for a “peaceful transfer of power“ to Biden as well. His own country! What a coward…
Zerks
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So... are you saying the people of Ukraine are fine living under communist rule? In case you haven't noticed people want to live free, speak freely, assemble peacefully, have privacy, own weapons they can defend themselves against tyrant and other miscreants. Humanity is hard wired for freedom... all this jockeying for political control over people simply turns into a big poop show over and over as history has already shown us many times.
Was the American Civil War the standard you are measuring this war in Ukraine with?
Zerks
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The election was rigged... the truth is the truth and no amount of the media lying will change that. Between sleepy Joe the sniffer of children's hair campaigning from his basement and the outright election violations taking place in the hours before and during election night you have to be a fool to believe something wasn't right. The fix was in... and it worked with the media as co conspirators.
Even though it seems irrelevant... this is just one of many examples of the corruption that leads to the undermining of America by the people connected to the top of the political hierarchy.
Zerks
Registered
So... you still believe the government sources and the lackeys that get paid to double down on the BS?
Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover
The number of employed Americans fell by 3 million during Trump's time in office.fortune.com
The economy was doing as well as it could at the time. The real problems that have been with us forever were accelerated with the banks getting bailed out in 08 and then the interest rates going artificially low for years since then. If you can't understand how that got assembled politically with the power of the US Treasury and the Federal Reserve then you aren't very well read.
You don't even know what the Commodities, Futures, and Modernization Act of 2000 did to the mortgage markets do you? You don't know about the FDIC kicking back billions to One West Bank for handling all the Countrywide mortgages do you? ( This was before BOA took over ) You don't know one the primary stock holders of One West Bank was none other than George Soros do you? You have no idea how the financial system of our country that depends on proper final management was corrupted do you?
All of this happened long before Trump become president. Remember when Trump was on Oprah and asked if he would ever run for president? Trump replied only if the country is in trouble would he consider it... and he said if he runs he would win.
Do I think Trump is the best man for President? No, however... that clown show in DC happening right now is a total crap show... Several people come to mind that would be a better suited for the office of president. Not because they would do a better job but because they would be more palaetable. The Snowflake generation is making its presence known in all the cities and states that have the greatest levels of incompetent political leadership... its pretty obvious who governs these crap holes. Kyle Rittenhouse showed up at one of them ( Kenosha WI ) and did us a favor by getting rid of a few of those undesirables that permeate the cities where this crap occurs.
Only fools believe the election was rigged. Their tiny minds (apparently) can’t fathom the number of conspirators there would have to be to pull off a nationwide election fraud so they ignore the facts. Literally thousands upon thousands of people in thousands of voting centers throughout all fifty states would’ve had to have been involved. Only the very stupid could believe that. Some of those on the list are tucker, hannity, lindell, gaetz, boebert and greene for example. Do you really want to be on that list?
There is something else these Trumpacrats don't want you to notice about the jobs created chart I posted from Forbes magazine: democrats have significantly outperformed Republicans in job growth since Reagan. Here is a national debt comparison by presidential term and again, the republicans are out performed by far by the Democrats:
Further look at stock performance and Clinton and Obama are number one and two by far. This article proposes that the president doesn't matter that much, but Dems still have performed better: We Looked At How The Stock Market Performed Under Every U.S. President Since Truman — And The Results Will Surprise You
So basically on most of the factors we typically watch to indicate the health of the economy, Dems perform better than Republicans by a good margin. Note the modern pole bearer for republican economic success (Reagan) ran the biggest debt before and since in both terms. And H. Bush followed behind him with the next highest debt.
The truth, as borne out by data, shows that the republican version of feudalism-based capitalism has not performed. The Democrat's investment-based governance (so-called "big government") outperforms the republicans on almost every metric except creating a massive wealth gap.
Further look at stock performance and Clinton and Obama are number one and two by far. This article proposes that the president doesn't matter that much, but Dems still have performed better: We Looked At How The Stock Market Performed Under Every U.S. President Since Truman — And The Results Will Surprise You
So basically on most of the factors we typically watch to indicate the health of the economy, Dems perform better than Republicans by a good margin. Note the modern pole bearer for republican economic success (Reagan) ran the biggest debt before and since in both terms. And H. Bush followed behind him with the next highest debt.
The truth, as borne out by data, shows that the republican version of feudalism-based capitalism has not performed. The Democrat's investment-based governance (so-called "big government") outperforms the republicans on almost every metric except creating a massive wealth gap.
Yes, and note that Al Gore lost to Bush by only 537 votes in Florida, yet Gore conceded for the good of the country and Bush was inaugurated while having lost the popular vote by a significant margin. Hilary lost to Trump in the electoral college while beating Trump by nearly 3 million popular votes - she conceded and further allowed Trump to govern. On the other hand, Trump lost by one of the biggest margins (nearly 7M votes) since Reagan v Carter in both the popular vote and the electorial college. There are only 5 presidents who were inaugurated despite losing the popular vote, only 2 in the 20th century - W. Bush & Trump.
The difference is that Hilary and Gore cared more about the country than their personal fortunes. They understood what was at stake internationally if America could not practice the democracy they preached to the world. Trump was willing to skewer democracy, the system that had brought relative peace and unprecedented prosperity to the west for 50+ years, for his personal gain. If you want to know what drives Trump look at his income - it is almost totally reliant on political donations as his businesses have all tanked.
Why is the EFFIN 2020 election still being spoke of????
It's over.......looong over, the people have spoken and they got what they wanted Trump the hell out of the office....Biden wasn't anyone's first choice but Trump certainly wasn't either...
Time to move forward and to keep the politics crap in the proper thread...this thread is about RUSSIA and the UKRAINE not the US election.....
I've said it more than I like to remember...as soon as any democracy stops believing in their own election process, they are doomed....let that be clear.....a failed state will follow and don't think it can't happen to the US...
I was speaking to a former colleague yesterday and he was part of the training mission to train Ukrainian special forces guys....he said these guys were the real deal and the Russians will pay for each and every km of real estate they take.
He is also proud to have been part of the training mission and glad to see it helped the Ukrainian military get the upper hand.
He also said he was part of the training mission since 2016 and there has always been the fear of a Russian invasion...the Ukrainian people were bracing for it at the same time hoping it would never happen.....
He is also proud to have been part of the training mission and glad to see it helped the Ukrainian military get the upper hand.
He also said he was part of the training mission since 2016 and there has always been the fear of a Russian invasion...the Ukrainian people were bracing for it at the same time hoping it would never happen.....
TallTom
Registered
Yep. This has been brewing for years. Not just in Ukraine. But yeah they are fighters. Always have had a more dedicated military force.
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