Russia and Ukraine

[jellyrug]

There is something else these Trumpacrats don't want you to notice about the jobs created chart I posted from Forbes magazine: democrats have significantly outperformed Republicans in job growth since Reagan. Here is a national debt comparison by presidential term and again, the republicans are out performed by far by the Democrats:

View attachment 1648401

Further look at stock performance and Clinton and Obama are number one and two by far. This article proposes that the president doesn't matter that much, but Dems still have performed better: We Looked At How The Stock Market Performed Under Every U.S. President Since Truman — And The Results Will Surprise You

So basically on most of the factors we typically watch to indicate the health of the economy, Dems perform better than Republicans by a good margin. Note the modern pole bearer for republican economic success (Reagan) ran the biggest debt before and since in both terms. And H. Bush followed behind him with the next highest debt.

The truth, as borne out by data, shows that the republican version of feudalism-based capitalism has not performed. The Democrat's investment-based governance (so-called "big government") outperforms the republicans on almost every metric except creating a massive wealth gap.

The chart shows debt not, jobs?

As per my previous post, the economy lost control 100% under Biden's watch, and yes he does not control the Fed, but he can sure influence them. It still happened under his watch>

Below is a chart, not from the internet, I drew this one for you myself, to debunk everything from the Forbes article.

So, look at the chart below and you will notice that over the past 10 years, the S&P500 growth followed a growth trend line pretty close to 13% per year. There are slight deviations, but the trend was pretty close to a constant, never mind which president was in charge.

Around April 2020, the market reacted to the Covid scare and dived, but it corrected itself pretty soon, this was under Trump.

Biden took office and from January 2021, the market reacted to free money, plus still very low interest rates and supply chain shortages. So prices went up, profits increased and the market was on steroids, it totally overheated. From January 2022, it started correction towards a bear market.

So in short, under Biden's watch the economy overheated over a 12 month period and the Fed did NOTHING to try and correct that. They have now responded with their first rate hike, but it is too late and this is not going to be fixed easily. We have the Ukraine problem, we have the highest inflation rate almost ever and we have the highest Producer Price Increase ever.

And when a Democrat tells you Biden had the best job growth and economy, that Democrat is not only lying, he is trying to fool the uninformed public who have little understanding of finances and the economy.

Trump for all his misdoings and terrible failures, got CEO's around the table, got on the phone with oil producing companies, sent his Vice President to meet with them. He was outspoken about the FED and influenced them. He had his finger on the pulse as far as the economy was concerned, handling unfair trade practices from China, trying to bring back manufacturing etc.

Interesting times indeed.

 

[jellyrug]

So what do you we think, who can we trust?

Sad that we have somewhat of a transcript from, Xi, nothing much from Biden yet.

Live: China says Xi told Biden 'peace and security' are needed in Ukraine; missile strikes near Lviv
China says Xi told Biden 'peace and security' are needed in Ukraine; missile strikes near Lviv

 

[Bumblebee]

Very Powerful.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1504426844199669762

Very true.....now hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears....

 

[macka]

Iran used a lot of financing to build up the projection of their power across the Middle East, from Lebanon and Syria to Iraq and Yemen. The key to their success being a unique strategy of blending militant and state power, built in part on the model of Hezbollah in Lebanon. They destabilized the Middle East, promoted terrorism and the chief strategist was Qaussem Soleimani.

He was eliminated and the Iran threat as well as disfunction in the Middle East was somewhat normalized.
Can you remember Saudi Aramco being struck by missiles? How much do you know about Saudi Aramco? Do you know we have a city of Americans over there, some third generation?

Like it or not, that was one of Trump's achievements.

With the new Administration, we are simply empowering Iran to get back to what they do best. Promote terrorism. They are not our friends and will never be

but it was the American's who started messing around with the middle east, originally giving arms and nuclear power to Iran, then giving arms to Iraq's Saddam, then backing terrorist right wing groups in Lebanon and Syria, invading Iraq. Can you say that the American's haven't been involved with every move to destabilize the middle east, Even trump got involved by producing a peace plan which basically tore up the Oslo peace agreement in which both sides Israel and Palestinians would agree not to claim Jerusalem and keep it neutral. Even Germany supplied Iraq with the chemicals and missiles oh yeah WOMD.
You wonder what's going to happen next

 

[Bumblebee]

but it was the American's who started messing around with the middle east, originally giving arms and nuclear power to Iran, then giving arms to Iraq's Saddam, then backing terrorist right wing groups in Lebanon and Syria, invading Iraq. Can you say that the American's haven't been involved with every move to destabilize the middle east, Even trump got involved by producing a peace plan which basically tore up the Oslo peace agreement in which both sides Israel and Palestinians would agree not to claim Jerusalem and keep it neutral. Even Germany supplied Iraq with the chemicals and missiles oh yeah WOMD.
You wonder what's going to happen next

Many countries were poking their noses in the Middle East...it was a playground for weapon testing for a while.

Iraq was equipped with Russian gear during the first US invasion...later, the insurgents were still using Russian made weapons.....they started using US made weapons only because it was easier to resupply themselves by using battlefield salvage.

It will continue to be a play ground for years to come..

 

[jellyrug]

but it was the American's who started messing around with the middle east, originally giving arms and nuclear power to Iran, then giving arms to Iraq's Saddam, then backing terrorist right wing groups in Lebanon and Syria, invading Iraq. Can you say that the American's haven't been involved with every move to destabilize the middle east, Even trump got involved by producing a peace plan which basically tore up the Oslo peace agreement in which both sides Israel and Palestinians would agree not to claim Jerusalem and keep it neutral. Even Germany supplied Iraq with the chemicals and missiles oh yeah WOMD.
You wonder what's going to happen next

Very true, but the Middle East has always been a mess, based on the tribal differences between Sunni and Shia. The Soviets as well as the West probably only made things worse. And then there is oil.

The problems in Africa are just as bad, but there is not enough oil, so we leave them alone.

It is always fascinating how countries with a wealth of natural resources can’t make it, simply because they are stuck in tribal differences.

 

[macka]

Many countries were poking their noses in the Middle East...it was a playground for weapon testing for a while.

Iraq was equipped with Russian gear during the first US invasion...later, the insurgents were still using Russian made weapons.....they started using US made weapons only because it was easier to resupply themselves by using battlefield salvage.

It will continue to be a play ground for years to come..

you joke, "a playground" sounds like everyone is having fun

 

[Bumblebee]

you joke, "a playground" sounds like everyone is having fun

Just a term, don't read too much into it.

 

[macka]

Just a term, don't read too much into it.

just like the ukraine war
quote "It will continue to be a play ground for years to come.."

 

[jellyrug]

What say the lefties?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1504278998553141253

 

[Bumblebee]

just like the ukraine war
quote "It will continue to be a play ground for years to come.."

That it will be sadly enough...

 

[fallenarch]

What say the lefties?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1504278998553141253

Is that a right or left issue? Historically Democrats were not shy with the use of force...

 

[macka]

That it will be sadly enough...

Ok i get the context, playground = bombed out cities and homes

 

[jellyrug]

Is that a right or left issue? Historically Democrats were not shy with the use of force...

Pence is right as in military right.

 

[fallenarch]

Pence is right as in military right.

Haha, that went by me. Anyway, I would say he is probably not correct. But he's not wrong either. This could be our best chance to get rid of Putin. He is as weak as he has been in a long time and now would be a good time to deliver the death blow. On the other hand, we could end up underperforming as bad as he has and open a big can of worms. I don't there is a clear choice yet.

 

[Bumblebee]

Ok i get the context, playground = bombed out cities and homes

Don't forget this is where militaries play with their new weapons of destruction..

The first invasion of Iraq was the testing ground of many new US technologies...and each and every battlefield is the "playground" for these new technologies.

 

[TallTom]

Don't forget this is where militaries play with their new weapons of destruction..

The first invasion of Iraq was the testing ground of many new US technologies...and each and every battlefield is the "playground" for these new technologies.

Russia seems to be doing this on the cheap. Dumb bombs. Old tanks, old planes, Unsecure comms etc. Seriously this has probably been done in purpose. Save the high end stuff for if the West joins in.

Outside of the cruise mussles, it looks a lot like WW II going on here.

 

[Bumblebee]

Russia seems to be doing this on the cheap. Dumb bombs. Old tanks, old planes, Unsecure comms etc. Seriously this has probably been done in purpose. Save the high end stuff for if the West joins in.

Outside of the cruise mussles, it looks a lot like WW II going on here.

That and the heavy use of conscripts...

Now the talk of Putin seeking outside assistance in order to push this invasion further...sure doesn't sound like an advanced superpower to me.

I do agree, he's saving the high tech stuff just in case...I have yet to see a T-14 on the Ukraine advance....those platforms are advanced and have a sophisticated self-defense system to protect against anti-armor man-pads...

 

[fallenarch]

That and the heavy use of conscripts...

Now the talk of Putin seeking outside assistance in order to push this invasion further...sure doesn't sound like an advanced superpower to me.

I do agree, he's saving the high tech stuff just in case...I have yet to see a T-14 on the Ukraine advance....those platforms are advanced and have a sophisticated self-defense system to protect against anti-armor man-pads...

Remember this war has been going on for 8+ years even though the media would have you think it started 3 years ago. Russia has been under sanctions for most of that time and this sure looks like a superpower in rapid decline. It's possible that Putin's advanced weapons are little more than a parade fleet. Obviously, Putin thought the Ukraine invasion would be a walk in the park, so why not show the world his shinney war machines in action against an enemy just rolling over to the invaders? I am of the opinion Putin is bluffing with the advanced stuff. He probably has a bunch of prototype weapons to look more formidable than he really is. Whatever the case he is still a pretty formidable conventional threat backed up by nuke and chemical ordinance as his panic weapons.

On the other hand, this is not that unusual. We have approximately 100 F-22 Raptors. Assume 80% are battle-ready at any time (assuming the media has it right) and you're not going to see a dominant presence on a major battlefield. Besides, it doesn't make sense to risk a $125 million aircraft when an F-18 will do the job adequately.

That's my opinion as a leading defense analyst, haha!

 

[Bumblebee]

Anyway we swing it, for a supposedly highly intelligent man, Putin sure bunged this invasion up.

The first bungle was the invasion itself....he sure didn't have very good intel on the whole situation at all...he should have known the west trained and equipped the Ukrainian military with very potent weapon systems..

This may not have deterred him but the fact the people of Ukraine do not want to be part of Russia and would fight so desperately and fiercely was lost to him....part of intelligence gathering is also learning about the morale and state of mine of the general populace...in many cases this can be told by just observations and certain analysis.

Covert ops should have been conducted long before the invasion which would have identified these factors...the military response can then be adjusted according to gathered intel.

I find it interesting just how different the west conducts such operations. If the tables were tuned and it was NATO going into this sort of situation, the outcome would be vastly different.