Single topic debate #2
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Relsek
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It wasn't 40 pages, it ended on the 29th.You going to get in here? Or are ya just going to do a drive by?Didn't "Hey Rev" last over 40 pages?woohooO! page 8! How long did our last "discussion" go? 20 pages or so? I know A6 expanding the size picking apart every line of text...WHERE ARE YOU A6? ? ? He had many interesting positions on all this too
And where the hell ya been?
I'll think I'll pass on this discussion. I find it pointless.
I do like reading it though.
Kevin
I'd like to take this opportinuty to thank warwgn for teh mature and respectful discussion. Thanks for hanging in there, dood. Seems like this all started with a large number of unbeleivers and turned over to the believer bunch, bu you are still in the fray speaking your mind intellignetly and respectfully. Thanks for that.
Have we labored to produce the turth yet? Evo or Cre?
Have we labored to produce the turth yet? Evo or Cre?
Understand.It wasn't 40 pages, it ended on the 29th.You going to get in here? Or are ya just going to do a drive by?Didn't "Hey Rev" last over 40 pages?woohooO! page 8! How long did our last "discussion" go? 20 pages or so? I know A6 expanding the size picking apart every line of text...WHERE ARE YOU A6? ? ? He had many interesting positions on all this too
And where the hell ya been?
I'll think I'll pass on this discussion. I find it pointless.
I do like reading it though.
Kevin
I agree to an extent, not likely that anyons beliefs or ideas are going to be altered here.
How you doing, What have ya been doing? How's the kids, how's the empty house?
Matthew 7:6
Relsek
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Empty it is. We dropped my daughter off at college last weekend. My wife and I are getting ready for another trip in a couple of weeks, this time to Ghana, west Africa.Understand.It wasn't 40 pages, it ended on the 29th.You going to get in here? Or are ya just going to do a drive by?Didn't "Hey Rev" last over 40 pages?woohooO! page 8! How long did our last "discussion" go? 20 pages or so? I know A6 expanding the size picking apart every line of text...WHERE ARE YOU A6? ? ? He had many interesting positions on all this too
And where the hell ya been?
I'll think I'll pass on this discussion. I find it pointless.
I do like reading it though.
Kevin
I agree to an extent, not likely that anyons beliefs or ideas are going to be altered here.
How you doing, What have ya been doing? How's the kids, how's the empty house?
<!--EDIT|Relsek
Reason for Edit: None given...|1156546212 -->
If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretely seduce you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you of far away, anywhere throught the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to hom; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God...
-Deuteronomy 13:7-11
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.
- Koran 9:73
This is just one quote each from the bible and the Koran that have this implication. If the bible is the direct word of God, then why are us non-believers not being struck down by those here who say they have faith in God? One if the preceding quotes is from your bible and is the comand of your God. I am willing to bet that there is not one person on this board who has killed because God has commanded it. This shows a distinct lack of faith in your religion. Also, because science tells a different story than your bible, you refuse to believe the facts as science understands them right now. What do you believe? You obviously don't believe in the word of god or in science.
If you tell a christian that his wife is cheating on him or that yogurt will make him turn invisible, he will require evidence to prove it, and will only be convinced to the extent that you give it. When told that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible diety who will punish him in the depths of hell if he fails to accept its every incredible claim, he requires no evidence at all. Is there something wrong here?
The least educated person now has more knowledge than anyone did 2000 years ago. The bible was written by people who were still afraid of the dark, and in writing it, they have doomed people for centuries to live in the dark.
If the world is to survive, anyone who says they know what god wants for us needs to be removed. If this isn't done, religious wars will consume this world. Look at what the Taliban are trying to do now. Look at what the Catholics did during the crusades. The weapons we kill each other with are now are more advanced and have the ability to wipe us all out.
If you want to believe in god, just realize what hatred and intolerance you are passing on.
-Deuteronomy 13:7-11
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.
- Koran 9:73
This is just one quote each from the bible and the Koran that have this implication. If the bible is the direct word of God, then why are us non-believers not being struck down by those here who say they have faith in God? One if the preceding quotes is from your bible and is the comand of your God. I am willing to bet that there is not one person on this board who has killed because God has commanded it. This shows a distinct lack of faith in your religion. Also, because science tells a different story than your bible, you refuse to believe the facts as science understands them right now. What do you believe? You obviously don't believe in the word of god or in science.
If you tell a christian that his wife is cheating on him or that yogurt will make him turn invisible, he will require evidence to prove it, and will only be convinced to the extent that you give it. When told that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible diety who will punish him in the depths of hell if he fails to accept its every incredible claim, he requires no evidence at all. Is there something wrong here?
The least educated person now has more knowledge than anyone did 2000 years ago. The bible was written by people who were still afraid of the dark, and in writing it, they have doomed people for centuries to live in the dark.
If the world is to survive, anyone who says they know what god wants for us needs to be removed. If this isn't done, religious wars will consume this world. Look at what the Taliban are trying to do now. Look at what the Catholics did during the crusades. The weapons we kill each other with are now are more advanced and have the ability to wipe us all out.
If you want to believe in god, just realize what hatred and intolerance you are passing on.
BigDawg_03Busa
Registered
http://www.allaboutscience.org/charles-darwin-video.htm
also search through the site and see what you like or don't like!
also search through the site and see what you like or don't like!
Am I an Atheist? Most definately!
A troll? I don't think so. I'm actually a nice, easy going and easy to get along with person. Most of the time. I don't press my beliefs on anyone. In fact it is my general rule to not talk religion with anyone. The topic is here, and it seemed to be a topic where any side could state their beliefs. It is a topic specifically opened to cause debate for this specific theological question. I didn't state my views to cause offense.
I grew up in a religious home. I even went to church every morning for 4 years in high school for bible/religious study.
I have never bought or received any atheist literature and I have never met with other atheists in a "let's be atheists" kind of way. I was, however, a biology major headed on to pre-med school, before a car accident removed that as an option for me. Has my schooling affected my view of things? Absolutely!
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have the "arguing with christians" athiest's handbook. The arguments for athiesm as opposed to religion are the arguments for athiesm as opposed to religion. The same can be said for the arguments for faith as opposed to atheism. They are the arguments used to advance one's view. I think we have all probably heard the "describe the taste of salt" argument to show that faith is reasonable. These are the pieces of my belief system. I feel that there are actual facts to back up my beliefs. I also feel that there is absolutely nothing to back up the religious point of view. If salty can not be used to describe the taste of salt, then the bible can not be used to to prove the veracity of religion.
I feel that any study of religious literature shows its contridictory and intolerant nature. A study of the history of religion, any religion, shows that nature all thru history. The "god of mercy" does not show mercy in the literature that is supposed to come directly from his mouth, or inspire it in the followers of that literature. Even the "anti-christ" is supposed to come teaching peace and tolerance and unite the world.
One either chooses to have faith in the literature or choses not to. Either it is all the "word of god" or none of it is. One can't take the "good" parts of it and leave the "bad" parts. Even the pope has come out recently and said that there is to be no moderation. One is either catholic or not. All in or all out.
A modern crusade led by any religion can not be allowed to happen. Modern weapons have the ability to wipe our planet off the face of the universe. This is not gods fiery destruction of the wicked. It is man's ignorance.
Every religion has built in teachings of how wrong and intolerable it is to believe in other gods or teachings. As long as these teachings are tolerated there will be intolerance leading to killing and destruction in this world. I'm not saying there wouldn't be other causes for contention, but I do feel that religion is the most devistating thing to be unleashed on our world.
Again, I didn't state my views to cause offense. I hope that if we ever meet, it will be as friends.
Your actually on to something, there is no warm water in religion.... Your either Hot or Cold. More simply stated you cannot serve two masters! For me God & religion are like a color unto which we all see but cannot describe. The understanding of it comes not from words written by man but by the word of God apon my soul, which leads me to do those things which are righteous. Yes, the world is a pleasurable place and one could easily fall into that trap.. But for me I'm living for things yet unseen and untouched; trading my little blip in time here on earth for an eternity of salvation... If the non-believer is correct then he will have lived less than 150 years as he would; If he is not he will pay an eternity for doing it........
Bigwall, perhaps saying "troll" was a little strong. it was late, I was tired and usually get too blunt. I just hadn't seen you much in this debate. ALL views and perspectives are welcome here and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Absolutely in any situation we could be friends provided opinions and view points were respected. Most if not all of my friends are not religious.
Since your line of questioning concerns heady, BOOK WORDY stuff and not real life application and function, I would suggest you ask a local preacher dude, but I doubt that's your way. He'll have the patience to detail through each question and explain the PRESUMED hypacracy you mention. I understand where you are coming from, though, having been a major skeptic myself a while ago. My questioning was answered through real world application, and not book reading or school knowledge.
To me, everyone can argue until blue about what this means or that means, or who wrote what and when and why. But that is not for me. I had to go to the dealship, write a check, grab the keys and peel rubber out of the dealership in my new Ferrari to KNOW FOR SURE how it worked, how it felt, what's its really capable of... I screamed right past the line of guys standing around arguing until blue about how fast it is or could be, it's 0-60 times, the quality of constuction, top end bla bla bla... they really know nothing... even the one that was a life long mechanic could not REALLY know a Ferrari until he's owned one for a long time.
I'm being obviously evasive because I'm done arguing with athiests. Spent a couple years doing that and it involved too much negativity. One thing to consider though is what I could refer to as "mud slinigng" - does your version of athiesm mention any reasons that being an athiest is better or is it just explaining why believing religion is bad? Usually athiests philosophy consists of TEARING DOWN a set of beliefs, but what is put up in it's place? For all the bad things people find or want to see in relgion, I can site FROM EXPERIENCE AND REAL LIFE OBSERVATIONS a thousand GOOD things that have come from it. quality morals, lives changing, emotionally and spiritually dead people brought back to life, marriages saved, children corrected.... these are all tiny miracles to me, especially if you knew the people. Man, I still consider it all truly amazing!
Anywho, didn't really mean to be like that, I just felt the atheism screaming out fo your post
Incidently, are you the guy I met briefly in Littleton a couple weeks ago on Wadsworth, turning left onto Coal Mine? Your busa was missing the windshield?
Since your line of questioning concerns heady, BOOK WORDY stuff and not real life application and function, I would suggest you ask a local preacher dude, but I doubt that's your way. He'll have the patience to detail through each question and explain the PRESUMED hypacracy you mention. I understand where you are coming from, though, having been a major skeptic myself a while ago. My questioning was answered through real world application, and not book reading or school knowledge.
To me, everyone can argue until blue about what this means or that means, or who wrote what and when and why. But that is not for me. I had to go to the dealship, write a check, grab the keys and peel rubber out of the dealership in my new Ferrari to KNOW FOR SURE how it worked, how it felt, what's its really capable of... I screamed right past the line of guys standing around arguing until blue about how fast it is or could be, it's 0-60 times, the quality of constuction, top end bla bla bla... they really know nothing... even the one that was a life long mechanic could not REALLY know a Ferrari until he's owned one for a long time.
I'm being obviously evasive because I'm done arguing with athiests. Spent a couple years doing that and it involved too much negativity. One thing to consider though is what I could refer to as "mud slinigng" - does your version of athiesm mention any reasons that being an athiest is better or is it just explaining why believing religion is bad? Usually athiests philosophy consists of TEARING DOWN a set of beliefs, but what is put up in it's place? For all the bad things people find or want to see in relgion, I can site FROM EXPERIENCE AND REAL LIFE OBSERVATIONS a thousand GOOD things that have come from it. quality morals, lives changing, emotionally and spiritually dead people brought back to life, marriages saved, children corrected.... these are all tiny miracles to me, especially if you knew the people. Man, I still consider it all truly amazing!
Anywho, didn't really mean to be like that, I just felt the atheism screaming out fo your post
Incidently, are you the guy I met briefly in Littleton a couple weeks ago on Wadsworth, turning left onto Coal Mine? Your busa was missing the windshield?
WWJD:
I have nothing but respect for others beliefs. I do, however, have extremely strong personal beliefs. I spent the first 18 years of my life trying to be a good christian. I spent the time practicing real world application. My beliefs have nothing to do with a lack of searching for the "answers" from religious authorities. My search led me to the beliefs that I currently hold.
I will admit that there is no point in arguing. Neither side has much chance in convincing the other. I feel that you are as wrong in your beliefs as I am sure you feel I am wrong in mine. We both have to find our own path in the world. I really avoid debates of any type for precisely this reason. Some people find it fun to do, but I do not. I'm not goint to spend my time trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking about any topic.
My version of atheism says that it is better (for me) because there is actually a supportable reason for my beliefs. I have found absolutly no supportable "truth" in religion.
In my experience, theological beliefs can not avoid tearing down or mud slinging against other beliefs, not just atheism against religion , but even one christian group against another.
Has religion done good in the world? Absolutely! However, I feel that the bad it has done, is doing, and will do is far greater.
Does atheism scream out from my post? Not anymore than religion screams out from the posts of those posting in the favor of it.
I was not the rider you saw in Littleton, but I do live in the Denver metro area.
KS-Waterbug:
Religious belief has nothing to do with moral caracter. I will hold my morality up against anyones. I do not hold my beliefs to gain a free ride on the do whatever you want train. There is an inherent search in human beings that you can call "spirituality" if you want, but again, I feel that it has nothing to do with blind faith in an all powerful being.
I have nothing but respect for others beliefs. I do, however, have extremely strong personal beliefs. I spent the first 18 years of my life trying to be a good christian. I spent the time practicing real world application. My beliefs have nothing to do with a lack of searching for the "answers" from religious authorities. My search led me to the beliefs that I currently hold.
I will admit that there is no point in arguing. Neither side has much chance in convincing the other. I feel that you are as wrong in your beliefs as I am sure you feel I am wrong in mine. We both have to find our own path in the world. I really avoid debates of any type for precisely this reason. Some people find it fun to do, but I do not. I'm not goint to spend my time trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking about any topic.
My version of atheism says that it is better (for me) because there is actually a supportable reason for my beliefs. I have found absolutly no supportable "truth" in religion.
In my experience, theological beliefs can not avoid tearing down or mud slinging against other beliefs, not just atheism against religion , but even one christian group against another.
Has religion done good in the world? Absolutely! However, I feel that the bad it has done, is doing, and will do is far greater.
Does atheism scream out from my post? Not anymore than religion screams out from the posts of those posting in the favor of it.
I was not the rider you saw in Littleton, but I do live in the Denver metro area.
KS-Waterbug:
Religious belief has nothing to do with moral caracter. I will hold my morality up against anyones. I do not hold my beliefs to gain a free ride on the do whatever you want train. There is an inherent search in human beings that you can call "spirituality" if you want, but again, I feel that it has nothing to do with blind faith in an all powerful being.
I couldn't agree more with what you just said! To often people use religion or their position in life for wordly gain or other sick agenda's... and in regards to the later your on to something! Just as man has physical needs (the need/desire to sleep, eat, exist) he also has spiritual needs. That yearning or wonderment is your spirit and you are correct. It isn't blind faith that leads a man to salvation (religion) but the yearning for the truth (God) which sets a man free from his worldly tomb........
Projekt
Registered
Very well put my fellow atheist Brother...
These are issues that I may have covered already in the first five pages of this thread and see that this topic and this thread will live long and prosper... People are set in their ways and the teachings received by those here touting Christian ideas such as creation will be with humnaity for a long time to come...
Have you seen the flick called Visitation with Ed Furlong? It illustrates the teachings that the so-called anti-christ will appear and broadcast "God's words"
Jose
P.S. I will have a beer for you when we come together in the future.
Well gents, the thread's been boringly predictable because, as I see it, (i) the thread isn't on topic*, (ii) the intent seems more to do with pandering than honest debate and (iii) far too many thought boxes remain unopened.
*As long as we're sunk to the floorboards in the mud of the notion of Cosmological and Teleological Arguments being "Christian" the question isn't really one of Creation -vs- evolution as much as one of Christianity -vs- Humanism.
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