No, I have not seen Visitation with Ed Furlong.
I look forward to having a beer when we meet!
Single topic debate #2
- Thread starter Projekt
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I look forward to having a beer when we meet!
your welcome!
And I still hold that all evidence and logical conclusions lead to evolution.
And with out the bible nothing supports Creation.
Just started reading this thread. I am sure i will be responding to more statements as my spare time permits. I apologize in advance if I repeat what others have said. Can't hear the truth too many times though
Wrong! Satan's IMAGE was a fabrication by the Catholic Church. They did not realize that you don't have to LOOk evil to BE evil ... Look at Ted Bundy... "Satan" is commonly referred to in the Bible by his proper name of Lucifer.
I got this far and Thrasherfox has said very well my exact opinion on this matter.Michelle -
I dont hold God in a box.. nor do I contain what he can do in a box. I keep an open mind to all posabilities..
I am even open to the idea that God created the entire concept of evolution and he used it in the grand scheme of his creation.
As such, it is difficult to rock my faith boat. I believe in God. and I believe that what I dont understand is no big deal, that if God wanted me to understand something I will. And if I dont understand something, there is a reason for it. I guess if I dont understand something, the entire concept of faith comes into play
I read up to this point in the thread and I found many other opinions that put a LOT of Faith in Man's "scientific" Findings that have been debunked by another man's "scientific" Findings.
There have been many "scientists" that have gone to extensive lengths to TRY and disprove a recorded event in the Bible. They fail everytime. Discovery Channel had a whole series about it.
I guess it all boils down to where you want to put your Faith. Man or God. I Choose God.
Projekt
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Yeah Moose,
But, just because the bible quotes actual historical events such as Noah's Ark and the great flood (actually being the flooding of the Black Sea due to rising sea levels and narrowing of the Bosphorus strait) doesn't go to prove the theory of creation. So that argument could be reflected upon various perspectives.
But, just because the bible quotes actual historical events such as Noah's Ark and the great flood (actually being the flooding of the Black Sea due to rising sea levels and narrowing of the Bosphorus strait) doesn't go to prove the theory of creation. So that argument could be reflected upon various perspectives.
dudewizr
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This whole debate started over Evolution vs. Creation. In order to prove either one you have to identify its origin. Evolution demands scientific support and strives to eliminate all supernatural influences. Creation demands that there has to be a Creator. It is possible to believe in a Creator without professing the name of Christ. I am proof of that, going back to about 7th or 8th grade (25 yrs ago) I refused to complete tests in school regarding evolution, not because of having the Bible shoved down my throat but because it didn’t make sense to me. My approach was like this, I would sign the test and hand it in. The teacher would hold me after class and point out I didn’t fill out the test, I would argue that I did. She/he would state that there is nothing on the page and I would reply “and monkeys aren’t turning in to men either, so your proof of evolution is as weak as my proof I filled out the testâ€.
We will probably never sway or argue anyone-not even ourselves- into real faith. You can always find a logical loophole if you don’t want to believe. God is interested in more than arguments anyway. He’s a real Being, not an idea, and He wants to for relationships with people-winning their hearts and not just their minds.
Having realized that take a look at this 12 point line of reasoning. It doesn’t prove the existence of a Creator, but it’s one way to show, through logical statements, why it is reasonable to believe. This is why I believe my faith in a Creator is more than a superstition.
1. Life and the universe exist. We can all agree on this.
2. Life and the universe did not always exist. Physicists tell us the universe is expanding, which indicates to many that it originated in a huge explosion. Geologists point out that the radioactivity of rocks is still decaying, which means that those rocks haven’t always been around. There’s no such thing as perpetual motion, so it’s pretty unlikely that the universe has been moving forever.
3. Therefore, at some moment thing began to exist. No matter how long it may have taken for the whole universe to be formed, there had to be a moment when nothing became something.
4. We cannot observe what happened at that moment. No telescope, microscope, space probe, or camera can show us what happened in the beginning. You’d need a time machine to be at the first moment of creation, and even then you might not be able to understand what was going on.
5. Therefore, we can hold only beliefs about how life and the universe came to exist. To scientifically prove a statement about how the universe came to be, you’d have to observe that event and duplicate it through experimentation. Since no human being can do either of those, any descriptions of that event are statements of belief. People who don’t like the word “belief†can say “hypothesis†or “theory†or even “just a wild guess†if they are more comfortable with those words.
6. We can choose to believe that a Creator did not bring thing into existence. Many have made this choice.
7. However, there is no physical evidence that proves the nonexistence of a Creator. Let’s say that a team of Nobel Prize winners examines every inch of the known universe, right down to the smallest atomic particle. They don’t find a Creator-not even His signature on a molecule saying “God was here.†Does that show that a Creator didn’t bring things into being? No. Those researchers could never be sure they had seen everything. There could be smaller particles, unknown galaxies, and other dimensions. More importantly, they couldn’t be sure they’d built a reliable Creator Detector in the first place. Perhaps the Creator is made up of something that can’t be detected by our most sophisticated equipment. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.
8. Therefore, denying the existence of a Creator requires faith that has no scientific basis. Many skeptics would prefer not to call it faith. But that’s what it is.
9. We can choose to believe that a Creator did bring things into existence. Not a bad choice, considering there’s no hard evidence to the contrary.
10. There is physical evidence that can be interpreted to indicate the existence of a Creator. Just look around. From the colorful patterns of a butterfly to a baby’s ability to learn language, things seem designed-not randomly tossed together. That tends to indicate a designer. This physical evidence does not prove to everyone that a Creator brought things into being. But a reasonable person can conclude that this evidence shows a Creator exists. In other words, we can conclude that physical evidence points to the existence, not nonexistence, of a Creator.
11. Therefore, believing in a Creator is based on faith and reason. Faith picks up where the physical evidence leaves off. Faith and reason don’t conflict: they support each other. That’s more than can be said for the “no Creator†argument, which relies on faith alone.
12. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe in a Creator-more reasonable than to state that He doesn’t exist! So believing in our Creator does make sense. It might even make sense to those around you. If they choose not to see, ask God to improve their vision. The Apostle Paul wrote, “What may be known about God is plain to them, because God made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse†Rom 1:19-20.
Many claim to not believe because they are seeking the truth and are relying on the physical to support it.
A young man went up to his master as said “I want to understand the truth about ALLâ€. The master replied “no you don’tâ€, “Yes, I DO!†The master grabbed the boy and held him under the water of a nearby stream until he finally quick kicking and squirming after another few seconds he pulled the boy from the water, he began gasping for air uncontrollably and spitting out water. After a few minutes when he finally recovered, the master leaned over to him and said â€When you want the TRUTH as bad as you wanted that next breath of air, God will reveal it to youâ€.
It’s your choice BELIEVE in a Creator or NOT!
We will probably never sway or argue anyone-not even ourselves- into real faith. You can always find a logical loophole if you don’t want to believe. God is interested in more than arguments anyway. He’s a real Being, not an idea, and He wants to for relationships with people-winning their hearts and not just their minds.
Having realized that take a look at this 12 point line of reasoning. It doesn’t prove the existence of a Creator, but it’s one way to show, through logical statements, why it is reasonable to believe. This is why I believe my faith in a Creator is more than a superstition.
1. Life and the universe exist. We can all agree on this.
2. Life and the universe did not always exist. Physicists tell us the universe is expanding, which indicates to many that it originated in a huge explosion. Geologists point out that the radioactivity of rocks is still decaying, which means that those rocks haven’t always been around. There’s no such thing as perpetual motion, so it’s pretty unlikely that the universe has been moving forever.
3. Therefore, at some moment thing began to exist. No matter how long it may have taken for the whole universe to be formed, there had to be a moment when nothing became something.
4. We cannot observe what happened at that moment. No telescope, microscope, space probe, or camera can show us what happened in the beginning. You’d need a time machine to be at the first moment of creation, and even then you might not be able to understand what was going on.
5. Therefore, we can hold only beliefs about how life and the universe came to exist. To scientifically prove a statement about how the universe came to be, you’d have to observe that event and duplicate it through experimentation. Since no human being can do either of those, any descriptions of that event are statements of belief. People who don’t like the word “belief†can say “hypothesis†or “theory†or even “just a wild guess†if they are more comfortable with those words.
6. We can choose to believe that a Creator did not bring thing into existence. Many have made this choice.
7. However, there is no physical evidence that proves the nonexistence of a Creator. Let’s say that a team of Nobel Prize winners examines every inch of the known universe, right down to the smallest atomic particle. They don’t find a Creator-not even His signature on a molecule saying “God was here.†Does that show that a Creator didn’t bring things into being? No. Those researchers could never be sure they had seen everything. There could be smaller particles, unknown galaxies, and other dimensions. More importantly, they couldn’t be sure they’d built a reliable Creator Detector in the first place. Perhaps the Creator is made up of something that can’t be detected by our most sophisticated equipment. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.
8. Therefore, denying the existence of a Creator requires faith that has no scientific basis. Many skeptics would prefer not to call it faith. But that’s what it is.
9. We can choose to believe that a Creator did bring things into existence. Not a bad choice, considering there’s no hard evidence to the contrary.
10. There is physical evidence that can be interpreted to indicate the existence of a Creator. Just look around. From the colorful patterns of a butterfly to a baby’s ability to learn language, things seem designed-not randomly tossed together. That tends to indicate a designer. This physical evidence does not prove to everyone that a Creator brought things into being. But a reasonable person can conclude that this evidence shows a Creator exists. In other words, we can conclude that physical evidence points to the existence, not nonexistence, of a Creator.
11. Therefore, believing in a Creator is based on faith and reason. Faith picks up where the physical evidence leaves off. Faith and reason don’t conflict: they support each other. That’s more than can be said for the “no Creator†argument, which relies on faith alone.
12. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe in a Creator-more reasonable than to state that He doesn’t exist! So believing in our Creator does make sense. It might even make sense to those around you. If they choose not to see, ask God to improve their vision. The Apostle Paul wrote, “What may be known about God is plain to them, because God made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse†Rom 1:19-20.
Many claim to not believe because they are seeking the truth and are relying on the physical to support it.
A young man went up to his master as said “I want to understand the truth about ALLâ€. The master replied “no you don’tâ€, “Yes, I DO!†The master grabbed the boy and held him under the water of a nearby stream until he finally quick kicking and squirming after another few seconds he pulled the boy from the water, he began gasping for air uncontrollably and spitting out water. After a few minutes when he finally recovered, the master leaned over to him and said â€When you want the TRUTH as bad as you wanted that next breath of air, God will reveal it to youâ€.
It’s your choice BELIEVE in a Creator or NOT!
CorrodedAlien
Registered
Every body here needs to talk to Slarti Bart Fast.
RaveCrusader
Registered
One point I am sure most people can agree on is that few would be swayed from one camp to the other. If there is a God, I have some hard questions for him/her/it.
I took a World Religion class years ago and we studied many religions worldwide, even some that are not in existence anymore. I always found it interesting that education has an inverse relationship to belief in god worldwide. I was never sure how to interpret that statistic but it always struck me as curious.
I took a World Religion class years ago and we studied many religions worldwide, even some that are not in existence anymore. I always found it interesting that education has an inverse relationship to belief in god worldwide. I was never sure how to interpret that statistic but it always struck me as curious.
Yeah, I was figuring you'd be along to point something like this out.
Glad you're here.
Really...
Please show conclusive scientific proof that matter pre-existed time.
Unless of course this is just an assumption...
I think science has the upper hand fklfajieoqjfoqfh lkhn ...............
.....Creation is the path that led us all here.....I just had a vision and he spoke to me........he sayeth un to me "spread my word of creation on the org and all shall see the light for I am the light and give your Busa's to dinoap.
Well you heard the man,
.....Creation is the path that led us all here.....I just had a vision and he spoke to me........he sayeth un to me "spread my word of creation on the org and all shall see the light for I am the light and give your Busa's to dinoap.
Well you heard the man,
Projekt
Registered
I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap. I must air freight my hayabusa to dinoap.
matter can not be created or destroyed, only re arranged. So it has always been around in some form or another.Really...
Please show conclusive scientific proof that matter pre-existed time.
Unless of course this is just an assumption...
dudewizr
Registered
So if it has always been around when, where and how did it get there?matter can not be created or destroyed, only re arranged. So it has always been around in some form or another.Really...
Please show conclusive scientific proof that matter pre-existed time.
Unless of course this is just an assumption...
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