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I believe in God and Evolution... I just don't believe in many people. My personal belief is that every person has the right to believe in anything they want and God doesn't care as long as you make the right decision on a personal level. I don't think there needs to be any personal fellowship or belief system to espouse one belief or the other. I think God put the ball in play and is waiting to see how we move it across the field. Every decision that we make in our lives either brings us closer to God or farther away. Which to me is a form of evolution of the mind. I also think God is fluid and adaptable not static. The decision that is right for a situation today might not be right for tomorrow.
God and Science can go hand in hand... So I think God set the ingredients for life out... and is waiting to see the directions we take as individuals not just as a whole. Its like being given a complete tool set to work on your car but not being able to use any of the ratchets. God wants you to use all the tools! So yes I believe in Evolution but I think some higher power started the ball rolling.
God and Science can go hand in hand... So I think God set the ingredients for life out... and is waiting to see the directions we take as individuals not just as a whole. Its like being given a complete tool set to work on your car but not being able to use any of the ratchets. God wants you to use all the tools! So yes I believe in Evolution but I think some higher power started the ball rolling.
I haven't been around for a while but figured I'd toss in my 2 bucks. I'm with Mr. WaterBug.
Certainly all or most of you can appreciate the concept of the Circle of Life. That would mean all creatures would have to have been created all at once for there to be food for each creature, right? Well, I suppose a few could wait around "10 million +/- a million years" or so for their food to evolve
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it has to be evolution since there is no evidence whatsoever pointing to anything else.
Since before there was any concept of time all matter in the universe has existed in one form or another.( refer to my other post) Anyway after it all came together and blew apart and started cooling off and forming planets and suns, and moons and asteroids and comets and space dust the earth was also formed. After the Earth cooled off and the gases started forming an atmosphere and the liquid metal spinning in the core created magnetic force around the planet to sheild it from solar radiation the stage for life was set. Now either the basic building blocks were here already or a comet or asteroid impacted the earth and they were deposited, but at any rate life began to propagate. Starting with simple forms of amino acids and progresing to algee then more complex organisims. It happened all over the earth and not just in one spot so environment had alot to do with early life forms. Then as time goes by and the environment changed so did life all over the world, it adapted to the environment or it died off, but all the while more life was being formed all the time, remember the first simple life wasnt the only simple life it was just the first!! So as time goes on some forms of life get more complex some die off and some new ones emerge, all the while time still marches on and so does life, evantually life come to a point where it must compete with other life, or the environment for food or space and will develope more rapidly or die off. This is when the opertunity arrises for more and more complex life to emerge, but remember new life is still emerging and and other life dies while all this is going on. With enough time you start getting life forms that become lazy and realize it is much better to not waste energy and effort getting what they need from the environment but to let other life do the hard work and just eat them. Now we have preadators and a whole new aspect to survival causing further evolution of early life, but remember new life is still emerging and some dies, and some is happy and content just like it is and this is happening all over the world at the same time in many different types of environments.
Now let this process continue for about 3.5 billion years and you get the world of today, and remember we are still evolving, new life is still being formed somewhere, and old life is dying off.
So what dont you understand about how I see it.
Since before there was any concept of time all matter in the universe has existed in one form or another.( refer to my other post) Anyway after it all came together and blew apart and started cooling off and forming planets and suns, and moons and asteroids and comets and space dust the earth was also formed. After the Earth cooled off and the gases started forming an atmosphere and the liquid metal spinning in the core created magnetic force around the planet to sheild it from solar radiation the stage for life was set. Now either the basic building blocks were here already or a comet or asteroid impacted the earth and they were deposited, but at any rate life began to propagate. Starting with simple forms of amino acids and progresing to algee then more complex organisims. It happened all over the earth and not just in one spot so environment had alot to do with early life forms. Then as time goes by and the environment changed so did life all over the world, it adapted to the environment or it died off, but all the while more life was being formed all the time, remember the first simple life wasnt the only simple life it was just the first!! So as time goes on some forms of life get more complex some die off and some new ones emerge, all the while time still marches on and so does life, evantually life come to a point where it must compete with other life, or the environment for food or space and will develope more rapidly or die off. This is when the opertunity arrises for more and more complex life to emerge, but remember new life is still emerging and and other life dies while all this is going on. With enough time you start getting life forms that become lazy and realize it is much better to not waste energy and effort getting what they need from the environment but to let other life do the hard work and just eat them. Now we have preadators and a whole new aspect to survival causing further evolution of early life, but remember new life is still emerging and some dies, and some is happy and content just like it is and this is happening all over the world at the same time in many different types of environments.
Now let this process continue for about 3.5 billion years and you get the world of today, and remember we are still evolving, new life is still being formed somewhere, and old life is dying off.
So what dont you understand about how I see it.
stop right there, your source for that statment is invalid. You are assuming the bible is fact, so if you plan to refreance it you must first establish it as fact so untill you do so please dont quote opinion and try to pass it off as fact.
I assume that applies to you too. Please point us to your references to establish these facts
I never said fact, read the last line in my post, I clearly stated it to be how I see it.I assume that applies to you too. Please point us to your references to establish these facts
But if you insist here is a start:
Baker, Sylvia, 1976. Evolution: Bone of Contention, New Jersey, Evangelical Press. 35 pp. ISBN 0-85234-226-8
Back to Helium , Magnetic decay , Moon dust , or Metals in oceans .
Brown, Robert H., 1992. "An Age-Old Question -- Review of The Age of the Earth by Brent Dalrymple" in Origins Volume 19, No. 2, pp. 87-90. ( http://www.grisda.org/origins/19087.htm - Editor)
Back to reference to this book review .
Brown, Walter T., Jr., 1989. In The Beginning..., Arizona, Center for Scientific Creation. 122 pp.
Back to Helium , Magnetic decay , Moon dust , or Metals in oceans .
Brush, Steven G., 1982, "Finding the age of the Earth by physics or by faith?" in Journal of Geological Education 30, pp. 34-58.
Back to reference to this work .
Dalrymple, G. Brent, 1991. The Age of the Earth, California, Stanford University Press. 474 pp. ISBN 0-8047-1569-6
Back to meteorites (oldest or multiple dating methods ) or further reading .
Dalrymple, G. Brent, 1986. Radiometric Dating, Geologic Time, And The Age Of The Earth: A Reply To "Scientific" Creationism, U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 86-110. 76 pp.
Back to model lead age , multiple dating methods , or further reading .
Dalrymple, G. Brent, 1984. "How Old Is the Earth? A Reply to ``Scientific Creationism''", in Proceedings of the 63rd Annual Meeting of the Pacific Division, AAAS 1, Part 3, California, AAAS. pp. 66-131. [Editor's note (January 12, 2006): This article is now online at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/how_old_earth.html.]
Back to Helium , Magnetic decay , Moon dust , or further reading .
Emery, G. T., 1972. "Perturbation of nuclear decay rates" in Annual Reviews of Nuclear Science 22 , pp. 165-202.
Back to reference to this work .
Faure, Gunter, 1986. Principles of Isotope Geology 2nd edition, New York, John Wiley & Sons. 589 pp. ISBN 0-471-86412-9
Back to isochron dating , or further reading .
Humphreys, D. Russell, 1988. "Has the Earth's magnetic field ever flipped?" in Creation Research Society Quarterly 25, No. 3, pp. 130-137.
Back to reference to this work .
Jackson, Wayne, 1989. Creation, Evolution, and the Age of the Earth, California, Courier Publications. 57 pp.
Back to Magnetic decay or Moon dust .
Jansma, Sidney J., Jr., 1985. Six Days, Michigan, Jansma.
Back to Helium , Magnetic decay , or Moon dust .
Morris, Henry, and Gary Parker, 1987. What is Creation Science?, California, Master Books. 336 pp. ISBN 0-89051-081-4
Back to reference to this work .
Morris, Henry, 1974. Scientific Creationism, California, Creation- Life Publishers. 217 pp. ISBN 0-89051-001-6
Back to Helium , Magnetic decay , Moon dust , or Metals in oceans .
Murthy, V. R., and C. C. Patterson, 1962. "Primary isochron of zero age for meteorites and the Earth" in Journal of Geophysical Research 67, p. 1161.
Back to reference to this work .
Newman, Robert C., and Herman J. Eckelmann, Jr., 1977. Genesis One and the Origin of the Earth , Pennsylvania, IBRI. 154 pp. ISBN 0-944788-97-1
Back to reference to this work .
Sisterna, P., and H. Vucetich, 1990. "Time variation of fundamental constants: Bounds from geophysical and astronomical data" in Physical Review D (Particles and Fields) 41, no. 4, pp. 1034-1046.
Back to reference to this work .
Snelling, Andrew A., and David E. Rush, 1993. "Moon Dust and the Age of the Solar System" in Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal 7, No. 1, pp. 2-42. http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v7/i1/moondust.asp
Back to reference to this work .
Stoner, Don, 1992. A New Look at an Old Earth: What the Creation Institutes Are Not Telling You about Genesis, California, Schroeder Publishing. 192 pp. ISBN 1-881446-00-X.
Back to reference to this work .
Strahler, Arthur N., 1987. Science and Earth History: The Creation/Evolution Controversy , New York, Prometheus. 552 pp. ISBN 0-87975-414-1
Back to Magnetic decay , Moon dust , or further reading .
Whitcomb, John C., and Henry M. Morris, 1961. The Genesis Flood, New Jersey, Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company. 518 pp. ISBN 0-87552-338-2
Back to Helium or Moon dust .
Wonderly, Daniel E., 1987. Neglect of Geologic Data: Sedimentary Strata Compared with Young-Earth Creationist Writings, Pennsylvania, IBRI. 130 pp. ISBN 0-944788-00-9
Back to reference to this work .
Wonderly, Daniel E., 1981. Coral Reefs and Related Carbonate Structures as Indicators of Great Age, Pennsylvania, IBRI. 19 pp.
Back to reference to this work .
Wonderly, Daniel E., 1977. God's Time-Records in Ancient Sediments, Michigan, Crystal Press. 258 pp. ISBN 0-930402-01-4
Back to reference to this work .
Wysong, R. L., 1976. The Creation-Evolution Controversy, Michigan, Inquiry Press. 455 pp. ISBN 0-918112-01-X
Back to Helium , Magnetic decay , Moon dust , or Metals in oceans .
York, D., and R. M. Farquhar, 1972. The Earth's Age and Geochronology, Oxford: Pergamon Press, 178 pp.
Back to reference to this work .
Young, Davis A., 1982. Christianity and the Age of the Earth, California, Artisan. 188 pp. ISBN 0-934666-27-X
Back to reference to this work .
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Since this is a debate
What would be the food for all these new/first organisms? I guess they could gather round for a few cups of amino acids for a million years. But when a fly shows up wondering what the hell (oops) he's supposed to eat if nothing has taken a good shat yet... What's the poor thing to do!
I dont know what do really think simple organisims "eat"? What do they eat now? What do plants eat, what do cells eat, what do any simple organisims eat. You can google that answer just as easy as I can.
I thought it was an intelligent debate. So save your straw men and red herrings for something else.
I looked it up for you, here is an example:
Close to 2.5 billion years ago, the earth's surface and atmosphere were stable enough to support primitive life. Single-cell organisms began to develop in the seas that covered the planet. A simple organism known as blue-green algae appeared and spread across the seas. Blue-green algae used sunlight and water to make food, and in the process, created oxygen. As the blue-green algae grew in the earth's seas, they began to fill the atmosphere with oxygen. The oxygen that blue-green algae produced made it possible for other types of organisms to develop.
from http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/plants.htm
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I thought it was an intelligent debate. So save your straw men and red herrings for something else.
I looked it up for you, here is an example:
Close to 2.5 billion years ago, the earth's surface and atmosphere were stable enough to support primitive life. Single-cell organisms began to develop in the seas that covered the planet. A simple organism known as blue-green algae appeared and spread across the seas. Blue-green algae used sunlight and water to make food, and in the process, created oxygen. As the blue-green algae grew in the earth's seas, they began to fill the atmosphere with oxygen. The oxygen that blue-green algae produced made it possible for other types of organisms to develop.
from http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/plants.htm
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That's a lot of book references as of recent! I can see how views can get distorted pretty easily over many revisions of the same thing.... as many say what has happened with the Bible.
The outlook on science will have emerge into something else... Notice how scientists are now debating if Pluto should be considered to be part of our solar system? So does'nt this indicate that we were wrongfully taught in schools to believe that Pluto was another rock in space circling our Sun which is the center of our solar system. That is how I see good, Him being what life circles around.
it would be safe to say we dont have the full picture and information can be updated and changed. Yes, but as far as we know today this is our most current understanding of the world.That's a lot of book references as of recent! I can see how views can get distorted pretty easily over many revisions of the same thing.... as many say what has happened with the Bible.If Science is always changing and effectively disproving/improving/updating observations made in the the past, it's safe to say that is still the case and that science is still wrong today and will be corrected later in the future.
But that does not change the fact that everything points to evolution and not creation.
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So, just curious, and without an argument please, those that rule out evolution, do you believe that anything has evolved in the history of our planet? Do you believe in evolution on any level? Take man out of the equation if necessary...it's a tough thing to honestly believe we all came from primordial soup, so look around you today and tell me if you know of anything that evolves...
Just curious to see if those against the theories of evolution rule it out completely in all forms of life...
Just curious to see if those against the theories of evolution rule it out completely in all forms of life...
In answer to your question what exactly is Fact?
Would that be for example...
The scientific community reporting in 1922 that a tooth that was discovered in western Nebraska, was declared to combine the characteristics of the chimpanzee, Pithecanthropus (a postulated apeman), and man. He later became recognized as "Nebraska man" and was regarded by some as a potential human ancestor. Then five years later in 1927, it was announced that the tooth actually belonged to a pig. Oops guess not.....
Maybe it was a factual reporting of the first skeleton of Neanderthal man which was unearthed in 1856! Oh yea, can't be that one either as almost a century later, a close examination of the skeleton revealed that it was that of an old man crippled with osteoarthritis and rickets!
So, what exactly are facts? and how long must they stand the test of time to be considered valued? God's word has been with us since the begining of time, without copy write I might add....
Who has more faith....
Me believing in God!
OR
You & your faith that "Evolution" MUST somehow have occurred, because the only alternatives are magic and divine creation! Since you believe in Science what about The law of entropy; It shows that the universe does not have the ability to have sustained itself from all eternity. In other words, the universe cannot be eternal and requires a beginning.
Again I agree to disagree... That is where we differ but just there my Busa brother!
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I believe that possibly plants evolve, but NOT MAN.....So, just curious, and without an argument please, those that rule out evolution, do you believe that anything has evolved in the history of our planet? Do you believe in evolution on any level? Take man out of the equation if necessary...it's a tough thing to honestly believe we all came from primordial soup, so look around you today and tell me if you know of anything that evolves...
Just curious to see if those against the theories of evolution rule it out completely in all forms of life...
okay one question do you celebrate Christmas with family etc.?
I believe that possibly plants evolve, but NOT MAN.....So, just curious, and without an argument please, those that rule out evolution, do you believe that anything has evolved in the history of our planet? Do you believe in evolution on any level? Take man out of the equation if necessary...it's a tough thing to honestly believe we all came from primordial soup, so look around you today and tell me if you know of anything that evolves...
Just curious to see if those against the theories of evolution rule it out completely in all forms of life...
I won't dive in to the evolution of man, or the origins of man I should say...it's pointless for me to try to change anyone's mind and that's now what I'm trying to do...but, do you deny that evolution exists in animals?
There's factual evidence that animals evolve or die if they can't adapt...moths evolve to match their environment; an environment polluted by man and his industries, so moths that were once white over time turned to colors to better hide themselves amongst a soot-enveloped habitat...
Viruses evolve; that's one of the main reasons for needing new strains of flu vaccines to battle the flu every couple of years...over time, nearly every virus evolves to better adapt and avoid being erradicated. The trend now for the basic vaccines is the same; the medical community recognizes that over generations, a particular vaccine is no longer working as intended. The virus is ever-changing to adapt to whatever vaccine is being used against it. Like all life, it's thriving to simply survive.
I read a report years ago, and no, I don't have it to share unfortunately, that said babies are now being born without their canine teeth. It's something that humans don't use as we used to, if you subscribe to evolution at all, thus as part of evolution, they're slowly disappearing. Can I put my hands on that scientific fact; no, I can not...I only mention this because I too realize the science of evolution can be misconstrued to better fit what a particular scientist is trying to convey...
I think about the myriad of people all over the globe that are so different from one another, many of their characteristics serve their tolerance of their environment...very general, but another topic altogether (and perhaps I've perused too many anthropology books LOL)
Remember, evolution, should you believe in it at all, can occur quickly relative to global time lines (as in that moth I mentioned above) or over millions of years...it's not always something that just sprang up overnight and it is ongoing all around us...
Just curious if there's a happy medium for those with faith and the belief in what can be proven scientifically...there are also those that subscribe, or perhaps pacify, this dilemma by believing that God is responsible for evolution...brings up an entire new set of things to ponder...
Michelle -
I dont hold God in a box.. nor do I contain what he can do in a box. I keep an open mind to all posabilities..
I am even open to the idea that God created the entire concept of evolution and he used it in the grand scheme of his creation.
As such, it is difficult to rock my faith boat. I believe in God. and I believe that what I dont understand is no big deal, that if God wanted me to understand something I will. And if I dont understand something, there is a reason for it. I guess if I dont understand something, the entire concept of faith comes into play
I dont hold God in a box.. nor do I contain what he can do in a box. I keep an open mind to all posabilities..
I am even open to the idea that God created the entire concept of evolution and he used it in the grand scheme of his creation.
As such, it is difficult to rock my faith boat. I believe in God. and I believe that what I dont understand is no big deal, that if God wanted me to understand something I will. And if I dont understand something, there is a reason for it. I guess if I dont understand something, the entire concept of faith comes into play
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