Single topic debate #2

So, here's my take on this...
I believe in God...
Simple. Do I have proof God does exist...
No...
I can't see him...
I can't reach out and touch him...
But, I know he's there, how could I exist without him...

I also believe in the air that I breath...
Do I have proof that Air does exist...
No...
I can't see it...
I can't reach out and touch it...
But I know it's there, how could I exist without it...
But then, that's just my opinion...


David
you can prove air, blow into a ballon and it fills with air.

turn on a fan and you can feel it.


anything that exists and has matter can be proven.

Ideals cant be proven, and God is an idea.

But thats not what was asked, so back to what was asked, Evolution or creation?

and there is nothing to support creation but a sole source, the bible, which it's self is not evidence of anything but mans imagination.
Can you see the air in the ballon...No
And you feel the air moving from a fan, but still cannot see it...
But again, you know it's there...
Have you almost had something terrible happen to you and and even closed your eyes and waited for the impact...
Only to open your eyes and wondered how you did not get hit, shot or mangled in general...
I have, and I'm pretty sure there was a higher power working to protect me...
And nothing will ever convince me different...



David


And as for the big question...
I believe God created Heaven and Earth...
Simple...
And he created it all in a way that allows things to constantly change and evolve for all eternity...
The same as he allows us to do great thing, or as in my case, really stupid things...
He gives us the choice, and for that, I'm grateful...


David
 
And, to further confuse...
laugh.gif


If only God can create life, what do we say of scientists in labs creating life?  Is it simply man thinking he's God?  Is it a progression in man's scientific ability to further our own existence?  It is all smoke and mirrors and not really happening?  
wink.gif
well actually we havent created life only cloned it.
...if you view IVF as cloning, I will have to disagree...

Man can take egg and sperm and create life outside of the womb...
wink.gif
 Albeit, we are not creating the egg nor sperm from a test tube, but we are creating babies in a lab...
sorry, I promise, I'm not post 'hoing LOL

...and IVF is a very controversial subject for many religions...as is cloning...

wink.gif
 
thats what your talking about, my bad. But we are still just Growing life not creating. We arent that advanced yet that we know of??
 
Devious, that is a hard concept for the scientisms to accept. They will spout you can measure air and the chemistry floating it with instraments and procedures. But that does not explain WHY it is there.

These discussions ALWAYS devolve into huge lists of stats, facts, foot notes, bibliographies that create more questions than answers. Why? Because science does not have all the answers. Thus using it as a measure and/or proof, only creates more questions. Science's final answer is the last answer it can come up with, but that is not always the end or the truth.... just knowledge we have SO FAR.

The entire discussion of evolution VS creationism is simply a smoke screen to hide the REAL debate going on here: GOD vs NO GOD. It ALWAYS come back to that. In the end, the godless try to show the Godlys they shouldn't believe in a God and the Godlys hope to explain why they DO believe in God to deaf ears.

The WEIRD part is, I don't understand why our belief bothers the Godless so much? I'm not really offended that some don't believe in God, but it can feel like the godless ARE offended that we do.... or we are stupid for believing/feeling that way. Why is that?

I used to be VERY Scientific oriented, very analyzing and thinking, until the truth hit me. The truth is, all that is just time waster. I'm not ANTI-science, yes we have good medicine and nice cycles, but science can not answer the REAL questions... why do I love her, what am I, is there a God

SCIENCE IS A SELF-DELUDING RELIGION BUT PRACTITIONERS ARE TOO BUSY USING IT TO SEE THAT.

There. I said it. VERY FEW will understand what I mean. Maybe someday the ones that don't, WILL come to understand that, and see the light from the darkness that WAS their religion.

On your deathbed, are you gonna say, "Dang! In the end, I never really figured ANYTHING out with Science!"

or

"I'm glad I lived a wonderful life, bringing joy to others, feeling so filled up with love, I'm certain I will never REALLY die. Thank you!"

The choice is yours
 
thats what your talking about, my bad. But we are still just Growing life not creating. We arent that advanced yet that we know of??
No biggie
wink.gif


Thing is that so many devout followers of their respective faiths feel that it's wrong to have science go that route...it's like "playing God" yet for the better good of man, it's (IVF) a very necessary sect of science...

It disrupts the "only God gives life" aspect of religion...just thinking aloud here...
smile.gif
 
In the end, the godless try to show the Godlys they shouldn't believe in a God and the Godlys hope to explain why they DO believe in God to deaf ears.

The WEIRD part is, I don't understand why our belief bothers the Godless so much?  I'm not really offended that some don't believe in God, but it can feel like the godless ARE offended that we do.... or we are stupid for believing/feeling that way.  Why is that?
Your beliefs, and those of so many here, don't bother me one bit...I appreciate that you have so much faith; I'm not trying to shake that faith or knock you from your foundation in life
smile.gif
and I surely don't think that believers are stupid for their beliefs...

I like open discussion, not jabs or name calling...

Just as you feel your discussion falls on deaf ears, the same can be said for the other side
wink.gif
 
something I dug up careful where your evolution takes you


Why evolution breeds monsters like Hitler, Trotsky, and Stalin
Quick-read this article:
Darwin's “survival of the fittest†ideas powerfully shaped the belief systems of mass murderers like Hitler, Trotsky, and Stalin.


Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler (1889–1945) endorsed a program in Germany to breed a superior race. The scheme was based on a horrific evolutionary theory called “eugenics†that was founded by Charles Darwin's cousin, Francis Galton. The idea of eugenics was to improve the human race using principles promoted in the theory of evolution.

The idea was simple: partition the human race into two groups, the “fit†and the “unfit.†Eugenics seemed to be a way to make sure the “fit†had children and the “unfit†did not. In Germany, the leaders of the eugenics movement got monstrous laws enacted that allowed sterilization of people regarded as “unfit,†and restriction of immigrants who were supposedly “biologically inferior.†(The United States and other countries enacted similar laws, but the Nazis took it to the extreme when Jews, blacks, and others were ruthlessly murdered to prop up the theory.)

The German people were being seduced to accept that they could be the “master race†by exterminating the “unfit.†If evolution was right, they reasoned, and “survival of the fittest†was merely a positive, evolutionary process, then what could be wrong with hastening the deaths of the “unfit�

Eugenics could only become popular because the theory of evolution seemed to have quashed the need for the sovereign Creator, God, who had given humankind absolute moral laws. When you do away with moral laws, outrageous racism and crimes like compulsory sterilization, Hitler's death camps, and mass murder on a maniacal scale, can no longer be said to be evil.

Trotsky … another monster brainwashed by evolution
Russian communist leader Leon Trotsky (1879–1940) was a fanatical supporter of Marxism and Darwinism. In the Russian Civil War of 1918–20, he used the force of the Red Army to stamp out whoever he decided were enemies of the Soviet State. He confiscated food from peasants, brutalized the Ukrainian army of insurgent peasants, and killed its guerrilla leader, N. I. Makhno. He inflicted torture and violence against Christians, mercilessly trashed churches, and led the Society of the Godless to get rid of religion.

Trotsky was mesmerized by Charles Darwin's Origin of Species. He said: “Darwin stood for me like a mightly doorkeeper at the entrance to the temple of the universe.†He said that Darwin's ideas “intoxicated†him. And he could not understand in the slightest how belief in God could find room in the same head as belief in Darwin's ideas.

Like Hitler, Trotsky was a tyrant who saw Darwin's theory of evolution as scientific justification for dismissing God's moral laws. He clearly saw that the two ideas, God and evolution, were totally incompatible. His atrocities were consistent with this belief, for when you do away with the idea of the God who created you and who has given instructions for the right way to live, there is no reason to avoid despicably violent crimes. Even if this means murdering everyone who disagrees with you.

World's worst mass-murderer was influenced by Darwin at 19

Russian dictator and revolutionist, Joseph Stalin (1879–1953), was studying at Tiflis Theological Seminary when he started to read the works of Charles Darwin. One of his friends later said in a book that when Stalin read Darwin he became an atheist. The theological seminary expelled Stalin at the age of 19 because of his revolutionary connections.

Stalin is regarded as the worst mass-murderer the world has ever seen. With God out of his way after embracing Darwin's evolutionary ideas, Stalin had no restrictions of conscience or morals. He set up a terrorist police State, persecuted and murdered innocent communists, and instituted trials in which most surviving Bolshevik leaders were found guilty of treachery and were executed. He encouraged “Stalinist adoration,†which included naming cities after him (such as Stalingrad, Staliniri, and Stalinogorsk), and advocated homage given to him in virtually all public speeches and in print. He murdered Leon Trotsky.

Darwin's “survival of the fittest†ideas powerfully shaped Stalin's approach to society. Oppression, atheism, self-glorification, and the blood of his many innocent victims flowed from Stalin's rejection of his Creator after reading and believing Darwin's evolutionary theories.

And the most tragic aspect of all this? That while Stalin, Trotsky, and Hitler were turning their backs on their Creator, they were building their murderous, racist philosophies on a lie.
 
Devious, that is a hard concept for the scientisms to accept.  They will spout you can measure air and the chemistry floating it with instraments and procedures.  But that does not explain WHY it is there.

These discussions ALWAYS devolve into huge lists of stats, facts, foot notes, bibliographies that create more questions than answers.  Why?  Because science does not have all the answers.  Thus using it as a measure and/or proof, only creates more questions.  Science's final answer is the last answer it can come up with, but that is not always the end or the truth.... just knowledge we have SO FAR.

The entire discussion of evolution VS  creationism is simply a smoke screen to hide the REAL debate going on here:  GOD vs NO GOD.   It ALWAYS come back to that.  In the end, the godless try to show the Godlys they shouldn't believe in a God and the Godlys hope to explain why they DO believe in God to deaf ears.

The WEIRD part is, I don't understand why our belief bothers the Godless so much?  I'm not really offended that some don't believe in God, but it can feel like the godless ARE offended that we do.... or we are stupid for believing/feeling that way.  Why is that?

I used to be VERY Scientific oriented, very analyzing and thinking, until the truth hit me.  The truth is,  all that is just time waster.  I'm not ANTI-science, yes we have good medicine and nice cycles, but science can not answer the REAL questions...  why do I love her, what am I, is there a God

SCIENCE IS A SELF-DELUDING RELIGION BUT PRACTITIONERS ARE TOO BUSY USING IT TO SEE THAT.

There.  I said it.  VERY FEW will understand what I mean.  Maybe someday the ones that don't, WILL come to understand that, and see the light from the darkness that WAS their religion.

On your deathbed, are you gonna say, "Dang!  In the end, I never really figured ANYTHING out with Science!"    

or

"I'm glad I lived a wonderful life, bringing joy to others, feeling so filled up with love, I'm certain I will never REALLY die.  Thank you!"

The choice is yours
Your right...
All I know is more than once I have been bleeding out, scared, but ready to go, and prayed to God, thanks for the ride so far, and the time I've already had, and I prayed I was a good enought Christian to make it to Heaven...
Of course once I realized I was not going to die, I said thanks for another chance...
And I know I'm not really supposed to think it but, I was also glad I was gonna get another chance to smoke the POS that tagged me first...


David
 
Devious, that is a hard concept for the scientisms to accept.  They will spout you can measure air and the chemistry floating it with instraments and procedures.  But that does not explain WHY it is there.
who cares about the why?? I disagree about your thinking. It's not about weather there is a god or not, it's about how we came to be in the world today, the actual physical process of it. How was everything created. You say God did it fine, but how? I dont know if there is a god pulling the string or not and dont care either, but I do care how it's done.

Just like in school show your work, we see the answer all around us, thats not the dispute, it's the how. Religous folks are happy to just see the numbers on the calculator of life, but the rest of us want to see it longhand. Thats what is satifying thats what we want to know.

You put the key in the busa and it starts and you can go fast, but how? After you know that you can tinker with it and make it better than before and go faster or last longer and work better. Thats why we try so hard to find out how.
 
Food for thought God's word said
stop right there, your source for that statment is invalid. You are assuming the bible is fact, so if you plan to refreance it you must first establish it as fact so untill you do so please dont quote opinion and try to pass it off as fact.
In answer to your question what exactly is Fact?
Would that be for example...
The scientific community reporting in 1922 that a tooth that was discovered in western Nebraska, was declared to combine the characteristics of the chimpanzee, Pithecanthropus (a postulated apeman), and man. He later became recognized as "Nebraska man" and was regarded by some as a potential human ancestor. Then five years later in 1927, it was announced that the tooth actually belonged to a pig. Oops guess not.....
Maybe it was a factual reporting of the first skeleton of Neanderthal man which was unearthed in 1856! Oh yea, can't be that one either as almost a century later, a close examination of the skeleton revealed that it was that of an old man crippled with osteoarthritis and rickets!
So, what exactly are facts? and how long must they stand the test of time to be considered valued? God's word has been with us since the begining of time, without copy write I might add....


Who has more faith....
Me believing in God!
OR
You & your faith that "Evolution" MUST somehow have occurred, because the only alternatives are magic and divine creation! Since you believe in Science what about The law of entropy; It shows that the universe does not have the ability to have sustained itself from all eternity. In other words, the universe cannot be eternal and requires a beginning.


Again I agree to disagree... That is where we differ but just there my Busa brother!
smile.gif
A simple explanation is that the scientists that discovered the Tooth were Christians.
Also the world has only had a one God concept in the cristian (roman catholic) sense for just about 1700 years. This is because, beforehand there was the widespread practice of polytheism and paganism.
So in effect you have not had God forever, but instead, for less than 2000 years since Constantine decided to use it to his advantage to control and Tax his subjects.
 
something I dug up    careful where your evolution takes you
Well, I for one hardly subscribe to a single belief of the Nazis, but thanks for playing... LOL

I could easily list religious zealots that hold similar ideals; heck, I've been told by a member of a particular religion that "she and all like her are better than me" so I'm not quite sure why those that believe in the sciences, that even believe in evolution can ever be compared to the list of the most hateful and demented people in history...
 
something I dug up    careful where your evolution takes you
Well, I for one hardly subscribe to a single belief of the Nazis, but thanks for playing... LOL

I could easily list religious zealots that hold similar ideals; heck, I've been told by a member of a particular religion that "she and all like her are better than me" so I'm not quite sure why those that believe in the sciences, that even believe in evolution can ever be compared to the list of the most hateful and demented people in history...
yea I know Va I just thought those two really made for an appearance, but at the same time I can list some religious fanatics, that put things to the extreme also, Osama(yo Mama) bin Laden, david Koresche(spelling), and then the ones that drag it down Jim and Tammy faye Baker etc
 
something I dug up    careful where your evolution takes you
Nonsense,
Hitler got his idea from Swedish programs to eradicate the undesireables. Believe it or not, Sweden was first in the practice of selective reproduction. Many, many people were sterilized for the program. Most of the women went into the sex trade and the men, just ended up lonely.
Megalomaniacs are sociopathic, and do not take cues from evolutionary scientists. They develop their own brand of power induced, irrational motives for protection of their agenda. This is paranoia caused by the stress of keeping yourself in power.
Move along.
 
Va thats the point I was gettin across about the 10 commandments earlier if God doesn't exist neither do the laws that WE ALL adhere to, because the laws of the ten commandment are the fundamentals of all governmental laws, religious laws etc. If the evolutionist do not believe in God is it also safe to say you do not believe in his laws?
 
nother something off the same site

Best arguments against evolution?
Evolutionists do not have solid support from science when they say everything has “evolvedâ€￾.

In fact, evolutionists who reject God and miracles have three of the biggest problems in the universe.

Problem No. 1
There is no scientific law that allows something to evolve from nothing. If there was nothing in the universe to begin with, obviously nothing could happen to cause anything to appear.

Evolutionists often try to duck this problem by saying that evolution is not concerned with the origin of life, only how life progressed after it appeared. But if you can't get something from nothing, it's pointless thinking you can accurately explain the next step. Juggle the figures any way you like, but without a Creator you are not going to get anything, let alone everything.

Problem No. 2
No scientific law can account for non-living things’ coming to life. The soil in your garden didn't turn into the trees and flowers. They came from seeds, cuttings, or grafts from other trees and flowers.

Atheistic evolutionists have long believed that at some time in the distant past, life arose from non-living substances. British biologist T.H. Huxley in 1869 and physicist John Tyndall in 1874 were early promoters of the idea that life could be generated from inorganic chemicals. But biology has found no law to support this idea, and much against it. The invariable observation is that only living things give rise to other living things. Life could not begin if God and miracles took no part!

Problem No. 3
There is no known scientific law that would allow one kind of creature to turn naturally into a completely different kind. Insects don't evolve into more complex non-insects for instance, because they don't have the genes to do it.

The theory of evolution teaches that simple life-forms evolved into more complex life-forms, such as fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals. There is no natural law known that could allow this to happen. The best that evolutionists can come up with to try to explain how this might have happened is to propose that it happened by mutations and natural selection.

But mutations overwhelmingly destroy genetic information and produce creatures more handicapped than the parents. (See our article on TNR, the Totally Naked Rooster.) And natural selection simply weeds out unfit creatures. Natural selection may explain why light-colored moths in England decreased and dark moths proliferated (because during the industrial revolution the light moths on dark tree trunks were more easily seen and eaten by birds), but it cannot show that moths could ever turn into effective, totally different, non-moth creatures. Moths do not have the genetic information to evolve into something that is not a moth, no matter how much time you give them.

All the evidence is on the side of the Christian who believes the Bible's account of creation — that in the beginning God created the world and all the major types of creatures to reproduce “after their kindâ€￾.
 
something I dug up    careful where your evolution takes you
Nonsense,
Hitler got his idea from Swedish programs to eradicate the undesireables. Believe it or not, Sweden was first in the practice of selective reproduction. Many, many people were sterilized for the program. Most of the women went into the sex trade and the men, just ended up lonely.
Megalomaniacs are sociopathic, and do not take cues from evolutionary scientists. They develop their own brand of power induced, irrational motives for protection of their agenda. This is paranoia caused by the stress of keeping yourself in power.
Move along.
But You know from Fact also that Stalin did get his ideaology from reading Darwin the Creator of Evolution, and this is FACT and Widely known
 
Just like Halloween is an actual Pagan holiday, how it ever got its comeupance I have no idea.
Errrr QUOTE!!!




Halloween

Halloween is celebrated by millions of people as a fun time for kids, putting on costumes, and going door-to-door to get candy. But it is also known as a time of witches, ghouls, goblins, and ghosts. On one hand, some see halloween as a harmless time of fun and on the other, a ghastly and demonically inspired night to be avoided.
As Christians, there is a lot of debate on whether or not we should participate in Halloween. Is it alright to go trick-or-treating? Can we dress our kids up in costumes on that day? If we do any of this, are we celebrating an evil holiday?

Halloween's Origins

The word Halloween is derived from the term "All Hallows Eve" which occurred on Oct. 31, the end of summer in Northwestern Europe. "All Saints Day," or "All Hallows Day" was the next Day, Nov. 1st. Therefore, Halloween is the eve of All Saints Day.
Apparently, the origins of Halloween can be traced back to ancient Ireland and Scotland around the time of Christ. On Oct. 31st, the Celts celebrated the end of summer. This was important because it was when animal herders would move their animals into barns and pens and prepare to ride out the winter. This was also the time of the crop harvests. This annual change of season and lifestyle was marked by a festival called Samhain -- pronounced 'sow-ane' and means 'end of summer.' Sow rhythms with cow.
There was much superstition associated with this time of change including the belief in fairies, and that the spirits of the dead wandered around looking for bodies to inhabit. Since the living did not want to be possessed by spirits, they dressed up in costumes and paraded around the streets making loud noises to confuse and frighten the spirits away. In addition, the new year began for the Celts on Nov. 1. So, the day of Samhain was believed to be a day that was in neither the year past or the year to come. Since it was in between, chaos ruled on that day. Often, people would pull practical jokes on others as a result.
Later, around the 5th century, as the Catholic Church developed and moved into the area, instead of adding a new day to celebrate, it took over the Samhain celebration. Nov. 1st became "All Hallows Eve" where all the saints of the Catholic church were honored. A later custom developed where people would go door-to-door on Nov. 2, requesting small cakes in exchange for the promise of saying prayers for some of the dead relatives of each house. This arose out of the religious belief that the dead were in a state of limbo before they went to heaven or hell and that the prayers of the living could influence the outcome. This may have been the precursor to Trick-or Treat.
The Jack-0-Lantern apparently comes from Irish folklore about a man named Jack who tricked the devil into climbing a tree. Once the devil was in the tree, Jack carved a cross on the trunk, preventing the devil from coming down. The devil then made a deal with Jack to not allow Jack into hell after Jack died if only Jack would remove the cross from the tree. After Jack died, he couldn't go to hell, and he couldn't go to heaven. He was forced to wander around the earth with a single candle to light his way. The candle was placed in a turnip to keep it burning longer. When the Irish came to America in the 1800's, they adopted the pumpkin instead of the turnip. Along with these traditions, they brought the idea that the black cat was considered by some to be reincarnated spirits who had prophetic abilities.
So, it appears that the origins of Halloween are a mixture of old Celtic pagan rituals superstition and early Catholic traditions.

What does the Bible say about Halloween?

What does the Bible say about Halloween? Nothing. But it does speak concerning witches, the occult, and paganism.

Exodus 22:18, You shall not let a witch live.

Deut. 18:10-12, "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD…"

The Bible definitely speaks negatively about occultic practices, spirits, and witches and condemns not only the practice but also the people who are involved in it. As Christians, we are to have nothing to do with the occult. Tarot Cards, contacting the dead, séances, lucky charms, etc., are all unbiblical and can harm a Christian's fellowship with God and open the Christian to demonic oppression. Most Christians know this and avoid these activities. But, the question still remains. Since there are ancient pagan connections and present occultic connections, what is the Christian to do?

Can the Christian celebrate Halloween?

The answer is simple: Yes and No. Let’s look at the negative first.
The Christian is not to be involved with or support the occult, witchcraft, demonism, or any other thing that uplifts the occult. To do so is to contradict God’s word, dabble in demonic spirits, and invite judgment from God. If a Halloween celebration is centered on demons, devils, spirits, etc., I would say don't have anything to do with it.
On the other hand, it isn't wrong to dress up in a costume and go door-to-door saying 'Trick or Treat." Provided that the costume isn't demonic, I can't see anything wrong with this. It's just fun for the kids.
Take a look at the Christmas tree. It was originally an ancient fertility symbol. Yet, it has become a representation of Christmas and the place where gifts are placed. Are the Christians, then, paying homage to an ancient pagan fertility god? No. Not at all. They do not consider it pagan at all and are simply joining in on a cultural event and giving no honor to anything unbiblical.
In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market and the question arose, "Should a Christian each such meat?"
Paul said in verse 25, "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." This is most interesting. He says it is okay to eat the meat bought in the market place even though that meat may have been sacrificed to idols.
Then in verses 28-29 he says, "But if anyone should say to you, 'This is meat sacrificed to idols,' do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" (NASB). Paul is saying that if you find out the meat was sacrificed to idols, don't eat it -- not because of you, but because of the other person. In other words, eating that meat won't affect you. But, it may affect the attitude of another who does not understand the freedom the Christian has in Christ.
Is it any different with Halloween (or Christmas)? No. Even though Halloween has pagan origins, because of your freedom in Christ, you and/or you kids can dress up in costumes and go door-to-door and just have fun. However, if you are not comfortable with doing this, then you should not. If you know of a person who would be stumbled by doing it, then you shouldn't either.
 
actually close to the same this is the one I found

ROME, 27 OCT 1999 (ZENIT).

As October 31 approaches, stores are filled with masks, monsters' costumes, witches gear and pumpkins with terrifying expressions. Halloween is just around the corner and every year it sweeps more countries of the globalized and consumerist world into its net.

History Generally speaking, Halloween is known for its pagan beginnings, which in the course of history have mixed with Christian elements.

The pagan roots of the celebration are attributed to the Celtic celebration of "Samhain," the cult of the dead. It was an established Druid tradition in the British Isles prior to the Romans invasion in 46 A.D. Although little is known about these celebrations, it seems that the Samhain festivities were observed between November 5-7 (midway between the summer equinox and the winter solstice) with a one-week series of events, ending with the feast of "the dead," which marked the beginning of the new Celtic year. During this feast, the Druids communicated with their ancestors hoping to be guided in this life toward immortality.

Christian Beginnings Beginning in the 4th century, the Syrian Church dedicated a day to "All Martyrs." Three centuries later, Pope Boniface IV (615) transformed a Roman temple dedicated to all gods (The Pantheon in Rome) into a Christian temple to "All Saints" -- all those who preceded us in the faith. Initially, All Saints Day was kept on May 13. It was changed by Pope Gregory III (741) to November 1, the day of the "Dedication" of the Chapel of All Saints in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. Later, in the year 840, Pope Gregory IV ordered the feast of "All Saints" to be celebrated universally. As a major feast, its "vigil" was kept on October 31. This vigil was called "All Hallow's Eve" from where we get the name "Halloween."

As early as the year 998, St. Odilon, abbot of the Monastery of Cluny in southern France, added the celebration of November 2, as a day to pray for the faithful dead. Hence the Day of the Dead, observed first in France and later throughout Europe.

Halloween's Evolution Obviously, Halloween today has little to do with its beginnings. Throughout history elements have been added like costumes (14th and 15th centuries) during the celebration of "All Saints" Day in France. In addition, during this period Europe was stricken by the "Black Death," which inspired great fear of death. Masses were multiplied for the "Faithful Dead," and many satirical representations appeared to remind people of their mortality.

These representations were known as the "Dance of Death." In a burlesque spirit, on the eve of the commemoration of the "Faithful Dead," the French adorned the walls of cemeteries with pictures of the devil leading a chain of people: Popes, kings, ladies, knights, monks, peasants, lepers, etc. (death respects no one) to their grave. These representations were inspired in plays with people dressed up as famous personalities in different stages of life, including death, which visits all. ZE99102609



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Made it half way down page 2 before going half blind.

Carry on, good folks!

--Wag--
 
something I dug up    careful where your evolution takes you
Nonsense,
Hitler got his idea from Swedish programs to eradicate the undesireables. Believe it or not, Sweden was first in the practice of selective reproduction. Many, many people were sterilized for the program. Most of the women went into the sex trade and the men, just ended up lonely.
Megalomaniacs are sociopathic, and do not take cues from evolutionary scientists. They develop their own brand of power induced, irrational motives for protection of their agenda. This is paranoia caused by the stress of keeping yourself in power.
Move along.
But You know from Fact also that Stalin did get his ideaology from reading Darwin the Creator of Evolution,   and this is FACT and Widely known
but I do have to say that it didn't help that he was a power hungry phsyco wasn't he schitzophrenic? anyone anyone Bueller anyone
 
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